House of Commons · Urgent Question
17 March 2025 · 22 other contributors
Opened by Robert Jenrick Con Newark
Summarised by AI from the official record, so it can contain mistakes.
Robert Jenrick raised concerns about sentencing council guidelines 2025-03-17 in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
Key points
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said.
Opened the debate
Will the Minister confirm that new two-tier sentencing rules will come into force in just 14 days, and express concern about their impact on the justice system. The MP questions whether these guidelines violate equality before the law and highlights potential delays caused by an increase in pre-sentence reports. He calls for an assessment of the additional workload for the Probation Service and asks if the government will provide them with more resources.
Question
The MP points out that the Sentencing Council is a non-political body whose guidelines are carefully drafted after consultation. He criticises Robert Jenrick for dragging the Sentencing Council into political discussions without cause.
Minister reply
The Minister acknowledges the point made by Andy Slaughter and emphasises the constructive meeting between the Lord Chancellor and the chair of the Sentencing Council.
Question
The MP suggests that all members believe in equality under the law but criticises the previous government for creating a two-tier justice system. He asks how the Minister plans to reform sentencing in England and Wales.
Minister reply
The Minister highlights the independent review of sentencing being conducted by David Gauke with an independent panel, which will address issues raised.
Question
The MP argues that a two-tier justice system exists due to delays and underfunding left behind by the Conservatives. He asks for real focus on delivering justice based on evidence.
Minister reply
The Minister agrees with Imran Hussain, stating that judges should impose sentences irrespective of race or ethnicity.
Question
The MP questions whether the Sentencing Council is stacking the deck against certain groups and suggests that judges should sentence based on their own judgment.
Minister reply
The Minister agrees with Sir Edward Leigh, stressing the importance of an independent judiciary.
Question
As a former magistrate, Emma Foody attests to the importance of pre-sentencing reports in providing information for sentencing. She asks if pre-sentence reports should be available for all offenders.
Minister reply
The Minister agrees with Emma Foody and emphasises that pre-sentence reports play an important role.
Question
The MP questions the consistency of criticism from both sides regarding sentencing guidelines. He asks for clarity on what is important in deciding whether to ask for a pre-sentence report.
Minister reply
The Minister agrees that it is important for the Sentencing Council to make clear that decision-making should be based on information needed and not on protected characteristics.
Question
The MP points out that Labour worked on these guidelines since 2022 without objection. He asks the Minister to consider this in their response.
Minister reply
The Minister acknowledges the positive response from the previous government but clarifies they did not work on the guidelines.
Question
The MP notes comments by Lord Justice William Davis and criticises Robert Jenrick for his faux outrage regarding these guidelines.
Minister reply
The Minister agrees with the sentiments expressed, acknowledging the criticism of Robert Jenrick.
Question
Does he agree that pre-sentencing reports should be available for all offenders without being determined by an offender’s ethnicity, culture or faith?
Minister reply
I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend’s point.
Question
Does the Sentencing Council understand that these guidelines are out of touch with the British people, Government, and House? Why won’t it delay the guidelines until they have been debated in this House?
Minister reply
To be fair, the chair of the Sentencing Council met the Lord Chancellor last week. He is awaiting a letter from the Lord Chancellor which he will consider and respond to before 1 April.
Question
Can the Minister assure me that we remain willing to take whatever action is needed to uphold this important principle unlike the last Government who were asleep at the wheel during consultation?
Minister reply
I agree with my hon. Friend that the last Government appear to have been asleep at the wheel, rediscovering their mojo only once they were in opposition.
Question
Will the Minister be lobbying the Prime Minister to abolish the Sentencing Council to make sure sentencing is brought back under democratic control?
Minister reply
I thank the former common sense Minister for her question—but she wouldn’t understand common sense. If the right hon. Lady stops gabbling and listens, I will attempt to answer her question.
Question
Does the Minister back the chair of the Sentencing Council who says that the state should not determine the sentence imposed on an individual offender?
Minister reply
Certain things are a matter of policy, and they are for the Government and for Parliament. We have had a constructive meeting with the Sentencing Council, a letter is going to the Sentencing Council, and the Sentencing Council will respond.
Question
If the meetings with the Sentencing Council do not produce results, will the Minister commit to working across parties to bring forward emergency legislation if required?
Minister reply
I thank the right hon. Member for his question. We will take things steadily, at the right pace, with proper respect.
Question
Will the Minister condemn the logic of treating some persons equally by treating them differently and say that we must not treat defendants differently because of their race or religion?
Minister reply
The Government do not believe that there should be differential treatment before the law. The Lord Chancellor has been very clear about that.
Question
Does he agree with me and many of my hon. Friends that policy decisions by unelected non-departmental bodies such as the Sentencing Council are eroding public confidence in our democratic institutions? Will he commit to scrapping such bodies?
Minister reply
Policy decisions should always be made by this House; the hon. Member is absolutely correct about that.
Question
Why has the Justice Secretary not taken action to stop these sentencing guidelines coming into effect in just two weeks?
Minister reply
The Lord Chancellor has made her position clear. She immediately met the Sentencing Council, and she is writing to it again to set out her concerns.
Question
How can victims be assured that justice will mean time served for crimes committed, and not be based on ethnicity?
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to learn that I agree with him. We need to make sure that victims are at the centre of whatever we do.
Question
What is the definition of a cultural minority, and are our veterans considered a cultural minority?
Minister reply
The hon. Member reads out a phrase that was welcomed by the previous Government, but that the Lord Chancellor is objecting to and talking to the Sentencing Council about.
Question
Was the Prime Minister right in what he said or is the Sentencing Council right? They cannot both be.
Minister reply
The letter the previous Government wrote to the Sentencing Council during the consultation is clear. The previous Government were not just consulted; they welcomed the guidance.
Question
Will the Minister take the opportunity to correct the record? He has misled the House not once, not twice, but on numerous occasions today.
Minister reply
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not believe that I inadvertently misled the House.
Government Response
The Sentencing Council is independent of Parliament and Government, which decides on its own priorities and workplan. The council consulted on revised guidelines from November 2023 to February 2024, receiving a positive response from the previous government. The Lord Chancellor met with the chair of the Sentencing Council last week for a constructive discussion regarding differential treatment before the law and agreed that she would set out her position in writing before the guideline comes into effect. The current Justice Secretary is addressing the issues left by the previous government, such as court backlog, prison overflows, and probation service overload.