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Question
The MP expressed concern about China’s influence on Parliament and requested clarification from the Minister whether the Government's measures are sufficient. She also inquired into how effective current vetting procedures for parliamentary staff are, considering recent arrests.
Minister reply
The minister responded by emphasising the importance of the defending democracy taskforce in assessing threats to democracy but did not provide specific details on current vetting levels or their sufficiency.
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Question
The MP asked about the timing and impact of banning Huawei from UK 5G networks, inquiring if it was premature given China's influence on other countries like Germany.
Minister reply
The minister defended the decision to ban Huawei, citing security concerns and alignment with Five Eyes allies. He emphasised the importance of robust national security measures despite potential economic consequences.
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Question
The MP questioned why sensitive sites were only restricted from using Chinese surveillance equipment when Huawei's ban was already in place, suggesting inconsistency.
Minister reply
The minister clarified that the measures against Huawei and other restrictions on Chinese equipment are part of a broader strategy to mitigate national security risks. He reiterated the need for comprehensive approaches to address foreign state threats.
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Question
The MP inquired about the impact of recent events on UK-China relations and sought assurances that British interests would be protected.
Minister reply
The minister assured that the Government remains vigilant to protect British interests while addressing systemic challenges posed by China. He highlighted ongoing efforts to strengthen national security measures.
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Question
Questions the Minister on China interference concerns, taskforce effectiveness, prison security issues for national security prisoners, and the necessity of a comprehensive Contest strategy addressing state threats.
Minister reply
Acknowledges Labour's constructive approach and confirms that the Prime Minister regularly raises Chinese interference with their counterparts. Provides details about the defending democracy taskforce’s work under his leadership, including its focus on electoral integrity and critical national infrastructure protection. He mentions ongoing work on sensitive equipment procurement and investment security unit interventions, highlighting 15 directions issued in past year mainly concerning Chinese companies.
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Question
Asks for confirmation that the Government's response to ISC report will address specific steps against Chinese interference.
Minister reply
Confirms that the full Government response, which is shortly coming, will indeed set out specific actions addressing the threat of Chinese interference.
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Question
Inquires about quicker government responses on security matters and implementation of ISC report recommendations. Questions when and how MPs were informed about recent allegations.
Minister reply
Reiterates the evidence-based approach to decision-making, acknowledging the delay in response to Hikvision but emphasising its necessity based on detailed analysis by agencies. He avoids disclosing exact timings due to security protocols but assures Members of regular briefings. Concludes with an emphasis on parliamentary security and independence between Parliament and Government.
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Question
These are extremely worrying reports about the level of infiltration of Chinese-supported forces into our democracy. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we need to recognise that China is the largest threat, both to the world and to the UK, on freedom and democracy? Does he not agree that the Government should designate it as such?
Minister reply
May I begin by paying tribute to my right hon. Friend for all the work she did in this space, particularly when she was Foreign Secretary? She is absolutely right to say that China represents a systemic challenge to our interests and values, and it is also, for example, the No. 1 state-based threat to our economic security. The Government are absolutely clear-eyed about the threats that this nation faces and we are robust in taking action.
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Question
A key part of democracy is the ability to scrutinise the Executive. As the Chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee said, No. 10’s response to our China report was to pooh-pooh it and say that it was out of date... When will we get that signed off?
Minister reply
Proper scrutiny is provided by the Intelligence and Security Committee. I certainly take the reports produced by the ISC very seriously—[Interruption.] I am fully aware of the membership of the Committee, to reassure Opposition Members. It is precisely because we take the recommendations so seriously that the Committee will receive a comprehensive response addressing all these points, including an update on the defending democracy taskforce.
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Question
When was the Foreign Secretary told about the investigation? Was it before he went to Beijing?
Minister reply
My right hon. Friend knows full well that the Government do not provide a running commentary on updates and intelligence received by Ministers... All those things have happened in the past short number of years.
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Question
Will he commit to the recommendation that it made in its recent report on China about updating the guidelines of the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments?
Minister reply
As I said in answer to a previous question, the full response to the ISC will be coming shortly. An important point has been raised in respect of ACOBA, for which I have overall ministerial responsibility in the Cabinet Office.
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Question
Will the data regarding the volume of prosecutions and convictions under existing legislation be collated and made available to the House?
Minister reply
I do not think I have had chance from the Dispatch Box to pay a genuine, heartfelt tribute to my immediate predecessor as Deputy Prime Minister... In respect of the volume of prosecutions and convictions, we seek to be as transparent as we can be with the House.
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Question
Just for once, could we get ahead of the curve and take action in relation to genomics?
Minister reply
I say gently to the right hon. Gentleman that he did serve in government and in Cabinet for five years... The right hon. Gentleman raises a legitimate point about genomics and its relevance to critical national infrastructure.
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Question
May I thank you personally, Mr Speaker, for the care and support you have shown to those of us who have been sanctioned by China?
Minister reply
May I deal with the specific question first, and then reflect on the wider points? We are currently reviewing the countries in the enhanced tier. I think there is a strong case to be made... If my hon. Friend feels that he requires further briefing, I am very happy to help to facilitate that with the House.
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Question
May I extend my genuine sympathy to the two Conservative colleagues who appear to have been targeted by a suspected Chinese spy?
Minister reply
I am not quite sure what to say in response to that question. In the light of the Lee case and others, that is precisely why we have taken enhanced powers through the new National Security Act.
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Question
Highlights the ISC's report on China and criticises the lack of urgency in implementing a foreign agents registration scheme.
Minister reply
Acknowledges the importance of addressing the threat from China, emphasising the new relationship with China that is different from previous years. Mentions the upcoming foreign agents registration scheme legislation.
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Question
Questions the consistency of Government's approach towards China, highlighting past Foreign Secretaries' inconsistent stances on China and the lack of a declared threat to UK national security.
Minister reply
Defends the Government’s consistent approach, citing actions such as banning Huawei from 5G networks and aligning with international allies. Emphasises the need for engagement but also clarity about disagreements.
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Question
Expresses concern over economic dependency on China, suggesting this could hinder UK's response to potential conflicts with China, particularly regarding Taiwan.
Minister reply
Acknowledges the issue and cites the National Security and Investment Act 2021 as a measure addressing concerns about foreign acquisitions. Mentions the establishment of the National Secretary Council resilience sub-committee.
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Question
Recalls past positive stances towards China under former Prime Minister David Cameron and calls for an audit on British industries owned by Chinese entities.
Minister reply
Stresses the changed approach to China due to its actions in Hong Kong, Xinjiang province, and South China Sea. Mentions new powers to intervene in transactions affecting national security.
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Question
Endorses the Government's strategy but emphasises the need for clear action to protect democracy.
Minister reply
Agrees with the MP, referencing the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill as a measure addressing threats.
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Question
Questions the modesty of the announced training programme for civil servants learning Mandarin relative to the number of Chinese students in UK.
Minister reply
Explains that this is just one part of a broader effort to increase capacity on China, highlighting additional measures within Cabinet Office and Foreign Office.
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Question
Asks why the Government are hesitant to explicitly label China as a threat and distinguishes between challenges and threats.
Minister reply
Acknowledges the evolution of the approach, emphasising the need for engagement while working with allies. Reiterates that the scale of the challenge from China is clear.
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Question
An attack on this place, including on Members, by any hostile Government intent on interfering with our democracy and its structures is a direct affront to British democracy itself. Given that several Members of this place have been sanctioned by China, can the Deputy Prime Minister give the House assurances that steps are in place to support and protect Members from hostile Governments, and will he make it clear that there are consequences?
Minister reply
Yes, I am very happy to give that assurance. Of course, we respect the independence of this House and provide support indirectly to the House through the parliamentary security directorate. I can assure the hon. Lady that we provide a considerable amount of resource to the House in respect of this threat.
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Question
I sympathise with my right hon. Friend. On this Chinese matter, he will face countervailing pressures and arguments on the economic side and on the security side. In his statement, he made great play of the six welcome measures that the Government have taken to toughen Britain’s stance towards the Chinese Government. Can he give the House any evidence that the Chinese Government have altered their behaviour in any way at all in response to that tough response from the British Government?
Minister reply
It is never the case that the United Kingdom Government trade off economic security for national security. National security always comes first in the approach we take, and we have seen action in response to the measures we have taken: for example, we have blocked Chinese acquisitions of companies in this country through the National Security and Investment Act 2021.
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Question
How many requests have the Government received from security services’ chiefs in the past 12 months for additional resources to combat the Chinese security threat, and have all those requests been met in full?
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman would not expect me to comment specifically on the agencies, but I can give him a general assurance that we have provided them with the necessary resources they need to combat all the threats that this nation faces.
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Question
This unsavoury episode serves as a reminder for all of us in this place of the threats we face, not just from state interference but from a variety of malign actors. Can I please ask the Deputy Prime Minister whether we are doing enough to think about our physical security, surveillance and counter-surveillance, malware and IT on our phones and other Trojan viruses, and governance of MPs’ security?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise all of those points. It is the case, not just in respect of China but also of Russia—particularly in light of the Russia-Ukraine war—and, indeed, Iran and other hostile states that the threat landscape is increasing, and the Government have to continually increase their actions.
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Question
The Chinese Communist party has shown once again that it will stop at nothing to get its way. The Deputy Prime Minister has said today that he realises there are serious issues and that this is a systemic challenge, but he would not come out with a statement that it is a serious threat and being treated as such. Can the Government give us the impression that they are not being dragged by the heels all the time?
Minister reply
We have been totally clear-eyed about the threats represented by China, and have been robust in the action we have taken. The hon. Lady talks about higher education: we have passed legislation in respect of higher education, the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023.
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Question
To some extent, I wonder if that is why we see this growth in unwelcome attention from China. However, can the Deputy Prime Minister reassure the House that we will continue to take that increasingly robust approach, particularly when it comes to emergent technologies such as artificial intelligence and some of the other increasingly high-tech areas where Britain excels in the world?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend has a great deal of experience from his time as a Minister, and we worked together on these issues. Telecoms security is precisely an example of the approach. First, we put national security before economic security.
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Question
I thank the Deputy Prime Minister for his statement. I am sensitive to the restrictions on both the questions and the answers, but we know—these facts are in the public domain—that two individuals have been arrested on suspicion of working for a hostile power and that they were parliamentary passholders. Their passes will have been sponsored by individuals who are probably in this Chamber, and they passed the security vetting for a parliamentary pass. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that in due course—not today—an important question will have to be answered: were they recruited by the hostile power before or after they became passholders?
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman made a number of suppositions in his question that are subject to an ongoing police investigation. When that investigation has concluded and indeed if the Crown Prosecution Service decides to take any action under the Official Secrets Act, there will be a time for this House to debate the lessons from that.
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Question
In whatever dialogue now takes place with the Chinese, can I ask again that the cases of my two trade union colleagues, Lee Cheuk Yan and Carol Ng Man-yee, who were leaders of the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions, be raised again? They have been in detention since 2021, and are now facing lengthy prison sentences purely for standing up for democratic rights and trade union rights.
Minister reply
Ministers raised the general principle of China’s national security law, its application to Hong Kong and the suppression of liberties in Hong Kong in very robust terms with their Chinese opposite numbers, and will raise individual cases. I am happy to pass that on to the Foreign Secretary.
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Question
These allegations are concerning, but sadly they are not the first of their type. We have heard about the sanctions against MPs and the activity at the Manchester consulate. I have been ticked off more than once by the consulate in my own constituency because I said things it did not like, and I have been filmed by a drone speaking at a Chinese rally in the city. In July, the Intelligence and Security Committee said there was a lack of clear strategy from the Government. Does the Deputy Prime Minister accept that that might be responsible for these repeated attempts?
Minister reply
First, the integrated review refresh was very clear about the approach we take in respect of China. We are clear that it represents the No. 1 state-based threat to our economic security. It also represents a range of other threats and a systemic challenge to our interests and our values.