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Question
The Labour member questioned why, after 15 months, there is still no clear cause identified for the mass die-offs. He accused the Government and Tees Valley Mayor of inaction and prioritising political agendas over local interests, demanding answers from the Minister regarding support plans for affected businesses, preservation of samples for further testing, and permission for independent sampling.
Minister reply
The Minister responded by defending the scientific process and criticised Labour's handling of the issue as unhelpful. He acknowledged the need to find out what caused the die-off but emphasised that ruling out certain factors is part of scientific investigation.
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Question
The Conservative MP thanked the expert panel for ruling out dredging and assured that CEFAS would be mobilised in case of further incidents. He also requested more testing on stored crabs to identify the pathogen.
Minister reply
The Minister acknowledged his colleague's support for scientific investigation, confirmed CEFAS readiness, and noted the possibility that identifying the exact pathogen might still remain elusive.
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Question
It is a sad day for democracy that it took Mr Speaker to grant my urgent question to get a Minister to the Dispatch Box on a tragedy that may be one of the worst ever to hit our sea and coastal communities. What will the Minister do now to find out what the mystery pathogen is, if indeed that is what it is? How will our sea be restored to health?
Minister reply
The Secretary of State published the full report as soon as she received it last Friday. She put it into the public domain for anyone to read and make conclusions. We have asked an independent panel to look at the issue, which has taken a thorough, evidence-based approach assessing all available evidence. Scientists remain on standby to investigate again if there is another event.
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Question
What support are the Government delivering to fishermen affected by the crustacean die-off? Will he outline what more can be done before concluding that we do not know the cause?
Minister reply
The £100-million seafood fund is available for fishing communities up and down the country. DEFRA and its partner agencies will continue to work with researchers and the scientific community to monitor the situation.
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Question
In every other area of fisheries science and management, we proceed according to the precautionary principle. Should sewage discharges into shellfish waters not be stopped?
Minister reply
Our scientists monitor water quality throughout rivers in the UK, and water quality is improving in many areas. The Food Standards Agency ensures food produced in the UK is safe.
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Question
Can the Minister give any clarity about what is actually happening in the sea now? Are there further die-offs?
Minister reply
The scientists concluded that there was a single, large die-off. The number of crabs washing up on beaches is consistent with smaller events such as storms. There is no evidence of another large die-off taking place.
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Question
The report concluded that the most probable cause is an unknown, unidentified pathogen but with a likelihood rated as between 33% and 66%. What assurance can the Minister give for further investigations? Can he come to the Dispatch Box and say what package will be put together for fishers?
Minister reply
The panel concluded that the most likely event was a pathogen, but it cannot be absolutely certain. CEFAS is on standby and will jump into action if there is another event.
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Question
Has the independent expert panel looked at the possible impact of electromagnetic forces from cables, which was not reported on in the original investigation?
Minister reply
I am not aware of any investigation into magnetic fields by the independent panel. I can feed back to CEFAS about this.
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Question
What next, Minister? What will be done if the event does not repeat itself?
Minister reply
It is about taking advice from scientists and working with them to establish facts. If the event does not repeat, we may never find its cause. If it repeats, scientists are ready to act quickly.
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Question
Can Dr Caldwell at Newcastle University be allowed to undertake deep sediment samples to rule out or confirm pyridine as a cause?
Minister reply
Dr Caldwell was in correspondence with the expert panel, and his evidence was considered by the expert panel in coming to its conclusions.
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Question
I am on my feet because I have a crustacean industry in my constituency, and I also represent a constituent, Charles Clover, who is director of the Blue Marine Foundation. I have also read Jenni Russell’s commentary about this in The Times, which I find to be compelling. I am disappointed by many of the exchanges that have taken place, and there has clearly been a huge breakdown of trust. May I just counsel my right hon. Friend that he has to recognise that DEFRA has lost that trust—certainly of local fishermen and local people—and he just has to go back to the beginning and start again? He has to get everybody into a quiet room and see whether there can be agreement about finding a way forward. I know that he has been provoked, but this kind of argy-bargy will inspire no public confidence at all, and that is what is lacking at the moment.
Minister reply
I take at face value the advice of my hon. Friend. I think that DEFRA was and is seeking to have that trust. The way we establish the facts is to ask world-leading experts to look at those facts and come to a conclusion, independent of any interference or guidance from anyone else. That is what the independent panel did. It came to its conclusions and we put them into the public domain. We are as keen as anybody else is to establish what may have caused this disaster. We do not want to see a repeat of it, and we will do all we can to ensure that does not happen and to establish the facts as we can.
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Question
The Opposition have accused the panel of not seeking evidence from outside sources. The terms of reference suggest the panel looked at all the available evidence. Can the Minister please clarify?
Minister reply
The expert panel acted entirely independently. It took evidence and advice from all sources to try to establish the facts. That was all considered and is repeated in the report.
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Question
This issue is important, and not just in the north-east but across the country as we look at environmental impacts. I do not disagree about challenging and questioning the science where we need to and forging that debate; what I take issue with is when individuals’ integrity is questioned, whether that is the independent expert panel, who were referred to in quotation marks by an Opposition Member as “experts”, or even Sir Patrick Vallance. This is absolutely outrageous. Can my right hon. Friend confirm that, as part of this ongoing work, he will ensure that the science is tested but the integrity of those involved is not questioned? When it is, it gives rise to anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists and everything else, and Opposition Members who have done that should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is right to identify that. We are blessed in the United Kingdom with some of the best universities in the world. We have the world’s leading experts in a number of fields, and their independence and professionalism should not be questioned. I should be clear at the Dispatch Box that I did not know who the members of that panel were until the report was published. That is the right way to have proceeded, and I thank those experts for their work and their efforts to try to get to the bottom of this terrible case.