Devolution of Justice: Wales

Welsh prisoners being sent to prisons in England closer than proposed Welsh locations is more sensible. The interconnectivity between Wales and England makes a strict adherence to geographical boundaries impractical. Argued against devolution of justice, stating that it is driven by political elite rather than demands from constituents or professionals. Highlighted concerns about the impact on legal industry and job opportunities in Wales. Intervened to ask if the Labour Opposition in Westminster support the Welsh Government's call for the devolution of justice, referring back to their stance during the development of the Wales Act 2017. Asked Labour's position on the devolution of justice in Wales. The Minister has provided a clear response, and we understand that the Government's view is that we should not devolve justice. He questions whether the Government understands Labour's point of view on the issue.

He expresses frustration over court closures in rural constituencies without adequate consideration for transport links, leading to a loss of access to justice. He criticises the lack of alignment and coordination between the UK Government, Ministry of Justice, and Welsh Government.

Tribunals operating in Wales are, to a degree, Welsh bodies, but control from Westminster is strong. When campaigning for a prison in north Wales, the need was not met appropriately by the Ministry of Justice. Challenged the notion that devolution of justice is a matter for elite lawyers, suggesting it should focus on justice for people in Welsh communities. Mr Williams highlighted the devolution failure in justice, noting that despite local government and Welsh Government funding for police services, they lack control over courts, prisons, and policing. He cited a study by Jones and Wyn Jones indicating a high recidivism rate among Welsh prisoners compared to English prisoners at Eastwood Park. Mr Williams also mentioned an earlier attempt to introduce bilingual juries in Wales but faced barriers under the Juries Act 1974.

Examples of devolution in Northern Ireland and Scotland demonstrate successful models that could be applied to Wales for its benefit. Mr Shannon highlighted the importance of devolution for local governance, using Northern Ireland's experience to illustrate how a devolved justice system can work effectively. He pointed out that since 2009-10, UK Ministry of Justice spending has fallen by 40% and Home Office funding by around 25%, which puts pressure on the Welsh Administration. Shannon argued for the benefits of devolving justice to Wales, citing successful models in Northern Ireland and Scotland.

Asked about the likelihood of devolving other aspects of justice beyond policing.

He supports the devolution of justice to Wales and highlights that it is not about constitutional changes but rather improving the administration of justice. He discusses how Scotland implemented a whole-systems approach in dealing with troubled children, reducing child offending and imprisonment through integration of health, education, and employment sectors.

He argued that the debate on devolving justice to Wales is important and unites various political parties. Richard Thomson mentioned that the current set-up of governance in Wales creates challenges, as powers over social aspects are devolved while justice elements remain reserved. He highlighted issues such as high rates of imprisonment in Wales and the impact on children's welfare and mental health. The speaker also pointed out the need for coherent policymaking across jurisdictions to address these disadvantages.

Mr Millar highlighted the work of North Wales Police in tackling organised crime and praised Chief Constable Amanda Blakeman for addressing community concerns. He argued that justice issues are cross-border, particularly east-west, and stressed the need to consider integration rather than a 'Wales only' approach. Mr Millar questioned the demand from residents for devolving justice and suggested it was more of an academic debate among politicians. He also raised concerns about the cost, stating that £100 million estimated by the Silk Commission might not provide value for money. Additionally, he noted that high imprisonment rates in Wales are complex issues and devolution alone may not address underlying causes. Requested an intervention from the hon. Lady during the debate. He asks the Minister to ensure that there is a reciprocal agreement for data exchange between the Welsh Government and the UK Government.