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Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill - Sitting 2
29 June 2021
Type
Public Bill Committee
At a Glance
Issue Summary
Sir David Amess introduces Sir Jonathan Stephens, former permanent secretary at the Northern Ireland Office, and begins questioning him about the challenges faced by the civil service during the period of ministerial inactivity and the effectiveness of the current Bill in ensuring Executive stability. The debate focuses on the Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill and its implications for governance in Northern Ireland. Sir David Amess is chairing a session with Emma Little-Pengelly to discuss her reflections on the Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill. Emma Little-Pengelly discusses her practical and theoretical experience with Northern Ireland's political system under the Belfast/Good Friday agreement, emphasizing the importance of cross-community consensus in decision-making processes. Emma Little-Pengelly discusses the history and current use of the petition of concern in Northern Ireland's political system. Sir David Amess is addressing the need for a ministerial code of conduct to strengthen public confidence in elected representatives and discussing changes proposed by the Bill to the ministerial code. The statement discusses the role and necessity of the petition of concern mechanism in Northern Ireland's political process, emphasizing its importance for building trust among different communities and parties. Sir David Amess is discussing with Mark Durkan about his involvement in negotiating the Good Friday Agreement and serving in various political roles in Northern Ireland. Sir David Amess introduces Mark Durkan to discuss the importance of implementing key elements of the Good Friday agreement and addresses questions about the role of the Civic Forum and the implications for human rights. Mark Durkan discusses the need for improvements to the Bill of Rights and addresses concerns about the misuse of the petition of concern in Northern Ireland's political process. Mark Durkan discusses the impact of changes to the election process for Northern Ireland's First and Deputy First Ministers, arguing it has tribalised elections and weakened accountability. Mark Durkan discusses concerns about the Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill and its potential impact on the stability and integrity of the Good Friday agreement. The conversation revolves around the scrutiny and legislative processes in Northern Ireland, particularly focusing on the petition of concern and the impact of Brexit on human rights protections. Sir David Amess is calling for questions from colleagues during a discussion about Northern Ireland's political institutions and agreements. The MP discusses the Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill, addressing concerns about its impact on stability and sustainability. Sir David Amess introduces witnesses to discuss the Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill. The Speaker and his colleagues are raising concerns about potential unintended consequences of the Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill. MP Alex Maskey discusses concerns about ministerial powers and accountability during caretaker periods in Northern Ireland. The speakers discuss issues related to the Northern Ireland Assembly's operations, including the role of petitions of concern and the importance of cross-community agreement in maintaining legislative stability. Sir David Amess is concluding a session with witnesses regarding the Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill.
Action Requested
No specific action is requested in this statement. The session aims to gather insights from Sir Jonathan Stephens on how the proposed legislation addresses previous issues and provides mechanisms for sustaining Executive stability and accountability.
Key Facts
- Sir Jonathan Stephens was permanent secretary of the Northern Ireland Office from 2014 until February 2020.
- The lack of ministerial accountability left civil servants in an unprecedented situation with no clear direction or decision-making authority.
- The Bill aims to provide time and space for resolving differences among political parties and ensuring continuity in decision-making.
- There has been significant societal change since the Good Friday agreement, leading to two substantial minority communities with a growing number identifying separately from either.
- The Bill provides for up to 24 weeks before triggering an obligation to call an Assembly election.
- Without an Executive Committee or meeting, decisions on cross-cutting issues cannot be made.
- Emma Little-Pengelly recently served as a special adviser to the First Minister.
- She has been involved in numerous iterations of negotiations since 2007.
- The session is scheduled for 45 minutes.
- Emma Little-Pengelly worked closely with drafters office and machinery of government elements in preparing for restoration of institutions back in 2007.
- The system in Northern Ireland is based on consensus and inclusion as a key principle arising from the Belfast/Good Friday agreement.
- The petition of concern mechanism applies broadly to all key decisions, not just narrow issues according to Little-Pengelly.
- The petition of concern has been used historically to reflect lack of consensus.
- A 14-day cooling-off period is proposed in the Bill.
- Little-Pengelly highlights that Ministers cannot take decisions outside their legal powers without Executive approval.
- There has been frustration over perceived breaches of the ministerial code.
- The Bill proposes tightening provisions in the ministerial code.
- Changes include moving from a seven-day resignation period to a rolling process of six weeks.
- The petition of concern mechanism was designed to build trust and confidence among parties across communities.
- In recent elections, there is a significant number of minorities compared to previous periods when Unionists had a majority.
- There has never been successful legislation in the human rights or equalities sphere by the Northern Ireland Assembly since its creation in 1999.
- Sir David Amess is leading a session to hear from Mark Durkan.
- Mark Durkan negotiated the Good Friday agreement.
- Mark Durkan served as Finance Minister in the first Executive and then as Deputy First Minister elected by the Assembly in 2001.
- The Assembly was suspended in 2002.
- The Good Friday agreement was negotiated by Mo Mowlam as Secretary of State.
- The agreement committed Westminster to legislating for a Bill of Rights alongside the European convention on human rights.
- Post-Brexit legislation has introduced powers that undermine commitments made in the Good Friday agreement.
- The Bill of Rights needs clarification regarding its impact on the European convention on human rights.
- The petition of concern has been misused and acts as a pre-emptive or predictive veto, hindering legislative progress.
- The St Andrews agreement introduced an additional point of Executive veto, complicating decision-making processes.
- The DUP sought change to avoid voting with Sinn Féin for First and Deputy First Ministers.
- Changes were made in December 2004 to ensure other parties vote for the First and Deputy First Ministers before getting ministerial positions under d’Hondt rules.
- Current changes turned Assembly elections into a first-past-the-post race for First Minister.
- The NDNA negotiations aimed to lock in stability but may have failed to adequately correct issues.
- Planning permission exists for roll-over periods of every six weeks if caretaker Ministers are required.
- There is concern about the Secretary of State's ability to call an election due to insufficient representation among Ministers.
- The petition of concern was intended to ensure joined-up scrutiny by linking Assembly consideration with advice from equality and human rights commissions.
- A Bill of Rights envisioned in the Good Friday agreement is considered diminished due to post-Brexit legislation.
- Public authorities in Northern Ireland can refuse requests that breach the European Convention on Human Rights, but cannot challenge instructions under the UK Internal Market Act.
- Sir David Amess calls for questions from colleagues.
- The discussion involves the Good Friday agreement institutions.
- There has been a restoration of devolution and functioning of key political institutions since the NDNA deal.
- The NDNA agreement was recognised as necessary for restoring institutions.
- There are limitations in the NDNA being translated into statute, which could create difficulties between parties and involve the Secretary of State.
- Proposed new paragraphs (e), (f) and (l) provide additions to the ministerial code in relation to community relations and equality opportunities.
- Sir David Amess introduces Alex Maskey, Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly.
- Alex Maskey was elected to his position in January 2020 following the NDNA agreement.
- Lesley Hogg is the Clerk and chief executive of the Assembly since 2016.
- Dr Gareth McGrath is the director of parliamentary services, serving since 2008.
- The Bill includes a 14-day consideration period when a petition of concern is presented by 30 Members.
- If Ministers remain in office after an election, Committees cannot be established until all ministerial offices are filled.
- The proposal prohibits the Speaker and Deputy Speakers from signing petitions of concern throughout their mandate.
- Maskey expresses concern about Ministers operating on a caretaker basis without clear scrutiny or accountability.
- The NIO suggests wanting flexibility regarding 'sufficient representation', which Maskey believes needs clarification.
- Maskey states that specific proposals are not his role as Speaker but supports officials liaising with the NIO.
- Former Speaker Hay highlighted in 2009 that tabling a petition of concern is a serious step.
- 116 petitions of concern were tabled during the 2011 to 2016 mandate, one in the 2016 to 2021 mandate, and none in the last 18 months.
- The Speaker verifies whether a Bill is competent before it is introduced and refers issues regarding human rights compatibility declarations to the Human Rights Commission.
- Sir David Amess leads the conclusion of the session.
- Witnesses include Alex Maskey from Northern Ireland Assembly.
- The session is ordered to be adjourned until Tuesday 6 July.
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