Commons Sense

House of Commons · Ministers' Questions

Winter Fuel Payment

Monday 7 October 2024 · 10 questions

Summarised by AI from the official record, so it can contain mistakes.

Read the full transcript on Parliament.uk

At a glance

Answered 0 Partly answered 7 Not answered 0

Key points

  • Gregory Stafford asked about the number of pensioners in poverty who will not be entitled to the winter fuel payment in winter 2024-25.
  • Ben Obese-Jecty inquired about the cost implications if all eligible pensioners apply for pension credit instead of receiving the winter fuel payment.
  • Wendy Morton questioned how the Government justifies focusing support on those in greatest need given that only 14% of pensioners in absolute poverty receive pension credit.

Topics (select to filter)

Questions & Answers

Q1 Gregory Stafford Con Farnham and Bordon
Foreign Affairs Benefits & Welfare
Context

Over 880,000 pensioners are not entitled to the winter fuel payment due to a change in eligibility criteria. This affects thousands of individuals who face financial hardship without this support.

Question

What estimate she has made of the number of pensioners in poverty who will not be entitled to the winter fuel payment in winter 2024-25.

Answer from Liz Kendall

May I say briefly, Mr Speaker, that as my right hon. and learned Friend the Prime Minister has said, 7 October last year was the deadliest day in Jewish history since the Holocaust, and we stand firm in our commitment to bring the remaining hostages home and secure the immediate ceasefire and aid that civilians in Gaza and Lebanon desperately need. An estimated 880,000 of the poorest pensioners are not claiming the pension credit they are entitled to, so they do not get the winter fuel payment or pension credit of up to £3,900 a year.

Not addressed: The answer did not address the specific question about estimates for pensioners in poverty losing eligibility for the winter fuel payment; instead it included unrelated statements and restated known figures without new analysis.

How: Changed Subject To A Different Topic, Repeated General Information

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Q2 Ben Obese-Jecty Con Huntingdon
Benefits & Welfare
Context

There is an estimate that only 100,000 out of the 880,000 eligible pensioners are expected to apply for pension credit due to government changes.

Question

Given that the Government's own equality analysis states that only 100,000 of the 880,000 pensioners who are eligible for pension credit are expected to apply for it, if all those who are eligible do apply, how much more will that cost compared with the initial saving from removing the winter fuel payment?

Answer from Liz Kendall

I say gently to the hon. Gentleman that upon coming into government, we discovered that 880,000 pensioners are not claiming the pension credit they are entitled to. Given that his former Government failed to take action to deal with that issue, I suggest that instead of making that point, he works with his council to increase pension credit uptake and looks at the £1.8 million we have given to Peterborough council to make sure that all the help for pensioners, including on winter fuel, is made available.

Partly answered

Not addressed: Did not provide a detailed estimate of increased costs if all eligible pensioners applied for pension credit; instead suggested work with local councils without specifics.

How: Redirecting To Local Council Responsibility

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Q3 Wendy Morton Con Aldridge-Brownhills
Benefits & Welfare
Context

Only 14% of pensioners in absolute poverty are receiving pension credit, leading to concerns about government claims focusing on those in greatest need.

Question

Given that we now know that just 14% of pensioners in absolute poverty receive pension credit, how can the Minister justify her Government's claim that they are focusing support on those in the greatest need?

Answer from Liz Kendall

Again, I say to the right hon. Lady that the reason so many of the poorest pensioners are missing out is that her Government failed to increase pension credit uptake. We have launched the biggest ever programme to increase uptake of pension credit. For the first time, we will be writing to all pensioners on housing benefit, and I urge the right hon. Lady to work with her local council and others to make sure that the poorest in her constituency get the money they are entitled to.

Partly answered

Not addressed: Did not provide justification for focus on those in greatest need; instead criticized previous government's failure to increase pension credit uptake.

How: Redirecting Blame

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Q4 Gregory Stafford Con Farnham and Bordon
NHS Benefits & Welfare
Context

Over 18,000 people in the constituency will lose their winter fuel payments due to eligibility changes.

Question

Over 18,000 people in my constituency will lose the winter fuel payment, but this is not about figures; it is about individuals, which is why I am running a pensioners advisory service on Friday to help them with this issue. This is about people, so what does the Secretary of State say to people such as Rita in my constituency, who is looking after her husband who has multiple sclerosis and who will not be eligible for pension credit and therefore the winter fuel payment?

Answer from Liz Kendall

I know that the hon. Gentleman has focused over many years on health and healthcare issues, and I would say to him that we are in this situation because his Government left a £22 billion black hole in the public finances. Unlike Conservative Members, we take our responsibilities seriously, and I would urge him to work with his councils—they have received £7.1 million in Hampshire and £5.3 million in Surrey from the household support fund—to make sure that all pensioners get the money they are entitled to.

Not addressed: Did not provide specific reassurance for individuals; instead criticized previous government's financial situation.

How: Redirecting Blame, Changing Subject

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Q5 Debbie Abrahams Lab Oldham East and Saddleworth
Benefits & Welfare
Context

There are concerns about people who are just above the pension credit eligibility line, particularly in regions like the north-west.

Question

I welcome the work that my right hon. Friend is doing in ensuring that the uptake of pension credit is increased, but there are genuine concerns about people who are just above that threshold who will remain in poverty—just under a quarter of a million in the north-west alone. In addition to the fantastic commitment there has been through the household support fund, will my right hon. Friend be undertaking any other mitigations to ensure that those pensioners living in poverty, particularly disabled pensioners, will not fall foul of this?

Answer from Liz Kendall

I thank my hon. Friend for her question, and I welcome her to her position as Chair of the Select Committee. Alongside our work to increase pension credit uptake, the household support fund is available for those just above the pension credit level. My own council has done a lot of work to make sure that pensioners just above that level can get extra help with the costs of heating or energy debt. There is also the warm home discount, which is available not just to those on pension credit, but again to those just above that level if they are on low incomes and have high housing costs.

Partly answered

Not addressed: Did not undertake further mitigations specifically for those above the threshold; instead mentioned existing measures without new commitments.

How: Redirecting To Existing Programs

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Q6 Rachael Maskell Labour (Co-op) York Central
NHS Energy Benefits & Welfare
Context

Concerns about the impact of winter fuel payment changes on health and well-being, especially among older people.

Question

I congratulate the Secretary of State on her ambition to sign people up to pension credit, but we know that about 780,000 people will not sign up in time and also that there are 1 million people in fuel poverty above that mark. Given that we are really worried now, as winter is approaching, about the impact that this is going to have, particularly on the health of older people, will she look at the work done by Energy Systems Catapult and NHS Gloucestershire on social prescribing to ensure that people can receive energy payments in that way?

Answer from Liz Kendall

My hon. Friend raises a very important point. This is not just about urging people to come forward and claim. We are writing to pensioners on housing benefit for the first time ever, and I am determined to bring forward the merger of housing benefit and pension credit, which the former Government delayed for years. I very much agree about the need to bring together social prescribing with help from the household support fund and other areas to make sure pensioners get all the help they need, and about the need to work with frontline NHS staff, as we are also doing, to make sure that the poorest who may be stuck at home with chronic conditions also know what they are entitled to.

Partly answered

Not addressed: Did not commit to looking into specific social prescribing mechanisms; instead mentioned general approaches without concrete commitments.

How: General Principles

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Q7 Alistair Strathern Lab Hitchin
Benefits & Welfare
Context

The question addresses the issue of pensioners not claiming their entitled benefits due to lack of awareness or barriers set by previous governments.

Question

It is clear that one of the drivers of pensioner poverty is the sheer number of pensioners eligible for pension credit who have been left not claiming it for successive years by the previous Government. I welcome the Secretary of State's zeal for making sure that we put that right, but how can we as Members from across the House work with her Department to make sure that there are no unnecessary barriers for those who are eligible and in need of pension credit to claiming it this winter?

Answer from Liz Kendall

I would urge all hon. Members in this House to work with their local councils, as I am doing, to make sure that those on housing benefit and other pensioners know what they are entitled to, and to make sure that their councils know that the household support fund—the £421 million we have set aside this year, despite all the problems we face—is also available to those pensioners just above the pension credit level.

Partly answered

Not addressed: Did not specify how Members will directly remove barriers for pension credit claims

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Q8 Mel Stride Con Central Devon
Benefits & Welfare
Context

The question refers to a policy that could affect pensioners and the potential number of premature deaths due to means-testing winter fuel allowances.

Question

In the general election, the Labour party promised that it had no plans to means-test the winter fuel allowance, yet we learn that millions of pensioners are to be affected. Indeed, in 2017 the right hon. Lady's party produced an analysis suggesting that around 4,000 pensioners would die prematurely were this policy to be brought into effect. Does she stand by that figure of around 4,000? If not, how many premature deaths does she believe will occur as a result of this policy?

Answer from Liz Kendall

In 2017, the right hon. Gentleman's party manifesto promised to means-test winter fuel payments. Until Conservative Members know that they have to apologise to the British people for the 200,000 extra pensioners in poverty over the past 14 years, and for a £22 billion black hole in the public finances, which we are now putting right but that has put the public finances at risk, they will remain on the Opposition Benches and we will remain on the Government Benches.

Not addressed: Did not address the number of premature deaths or stand by the 2017 analysis figure

How: Changed Subject To Criticism

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Q9 Mel Stride Con Central Devon
Benefits & Welfare
Context

The question challenges the government's assertion about costs and savings related to increased pension credit uptake.

Question

I think I need to correct the right hon. Lady: there were actually 200,000 fewer pensioners in absolute poverty under the previous Conservative Government. She quite rightly is pressing the uptake of pension credit, but if all those who are eligible for it take it up, that will cost £3.8 billion, which is substantially more than the saving that is scored at £1.4 billion. If she is successful in her aspiration, the costs will substantially outweigh the savings; if she is not successful, potentially millions of pensioners will be plunged further into poverty. May I ask her which it is?

Answer from Liz Kendall

There are 200,000 more pensioners in poverty, and I am happy to put those figures into the public domain to set the record straight. The savings we have put forward take into account the increase in uptake that we foresee. Unlike Conservative Members, we are determined and will do everything possible—they should perhaps ask themselves why they first announced the merger of pension credit and housing benefit in 2012 and then put it off until 2028—to change things and get people the money they are entitled to. We will bring that forward to ensure that all the poorest pensioners get what they are entitled to.

Partly answered

Not addressed: Did not address specific cost-savings analysis or refute claims directly

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Q10 Steve Darling Lib Dem Torbay
Benefits & Welfare
Context

The question addresses the government's policy on reducing winter fuel allowance for those over 80 and seeks reassurance on reversing this decision.

Question

There are 2.7 million pensioners over the age of 80 who would have benefited from the £300 winter fuel allowance. They are among the most vulnerable in our society. The right hon. Lady is right to say that the previous Government let them down, but let us not add insult to injury and have the new Government let them down. Can she reassure the House that she will reverse the regressive approach that she has taken to the winter fuel allowance, and not hit the most vulnerable people who are over 80?

Answer from Liz Kendall

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. He will know that this was not a decision that we wanted or expected to make. The reason we have taken it is that we have to deal with the £22 billion black hole in the public finances left by Conservative Members. But in doing so, we will as a progressive party always prioritise the very poorest pensioners. That is why we are so determined to end a situation where up to 880,000 people miss out on the winter fuel allowance because they are not getting pension credit. We are determined to put that right.

Partly answered

Not addressed: Did not directly confirm reversal of policy for those aged over 80

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