Commons Sense

House of Commons · Ministers' Questions

Horizon System: Exoneration of Sub-postmasters

Tuesday 20 February 2024 · 6 questions

Summarised by AI from the official record, so it can contain mistakes.

Read the full transcript on Parliament.uk

At a glance

Answered 3 Partly answered 3 Not answered 0

Key points

  • In September 2020, a public inquiry was set up to investigate failings associated with the Post Office Horizon IT system, expected to report later in 2024.
  • Over 160 million has been paid out in compensation to sub-postmasters through three schemes.
  • The Post Office's failure is described as egregious and a matter of shame for those involved.

Topics (select to filter)

Questions & Answers

Q1 Kirsten Oswald SNP
Standards & Ethics
Context

The question arises from the Post Office's flawed IT system, Horizon, which has led to wrongful convictions of sub-postmasters.

Question

What steps he is taking with Cabinet colleagues to exonerate sub-postmasters who were convicted due to errors in the Post Office Horizon system?

Answer from Alex Chalk

In September 2020, a public inquiry was set up into the failings associated with the Post Office Horizon IT system and it is expected to report back later this year. Over £160 million has already been paid out in compensation across three schemes. The Prime Minister will bring forward legislation to quash the relevant convictions, details of which will be announced shortly by the Department for Business and Trade.

Answered
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Q2 Marco Longhi
Justice & Courts Parliamentary Procedure
Context

Some sub-postmasters have been suffering for a long time due to wrongful convictions stemming from the Post Office's flawed IT system.

Question

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that any legislation should deal with these issues swiftly and avoid any further delays?

Answer from Alex Chalk

The judiciary and courts have dealt swiftly with the cases before them, but the scale and circumstances of the prosecution failure mean that this demands an unprecedented response. The Prime Minister announced a major step forward in response to the Horizon scandal, aiming for prompt justice and rapid financial redress.

Answered
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Q3 Gavin Newlands SNP
Justice & Courts
Context

The BBC reported that the Post Office had knowledge of Horizon's balancing transaction capability and an ongoing Deloitte investigation was halted after sub-postmasters began legal action.

Question

Will the Secretary of State confirm whether the Ministry of Justice was aware of this, and does he believe that non-disclosure to the inquiry is a threat to judicial freedom and independence?

Answer from Alex Chalk

An independent inquiry under Mr Justice Wyn Williams was set up in 2020. It will report later this year, going into details about who knew what and when. The Post Office's failure is an egregious one that brings shame on those involved.

Partly answered

Not addressed: The MP asked for confirmation of Ministry of Justice awareness and the threat to judicial independence, but the Secretary of State only addressed the scope of the inquiry and the nature of the Post Office's failure without directly answering these specific questions.

How: Avoiding Direct Question, Shifting Focus

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Q4 Kirsten Oswald SNP
Business & Trade
Context

The current chief executive of the Post Office stated in evidence that we still do not know the full scope of money overclaimed through Horizon, causing significant stress and financial loss to sub-postmasters.

Question

Will the Secretary of State commit to working with the Secretary of State for Business and Trade and set out a timetable for updating the House on how much the Post Office took and what it did with the money?

Answer from Alex Chalk

£160 million has already been paid out in compensation across three schemes. The Department for Business and Trade is leading on this matter, and they are committed to addressing these issues promptly.

Partly answered

Not addressed: The MP asked for a commitment and timetable but received only assurances that DBT will address the matters without specifying a timeline or detailed plan of action.

How: Shifting Focus, Acknowledging Concern

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Q5 Bob Neill Con
Crime & Law Enforcement Justice & Courts
Context

The Court of Appeal quashed a number of Horizon appeals based on the failure of prosecution to act fairly, leading to concerns about how any new legislation should frame these issues.

Question

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that it is important to bear in mind that the failures are those of the prosecutor or state, not the courts?

Answer from Alex Chalk

This was a failure of the Post Office as an emanation of the state. The first rule in prosecution is not to seek a conviction at all costs, which the Post Office failed to appreciate. The courts have approached this entirely properly.

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Q6 Chris Stephens SNP
Justice & Courts Business & Trade
Context

Whistleblowers have revealed that in 2013, the Post Office awarded Fujitsu an additional contract to re-platform transaction data from an external storage system considered the gold standard. This new system allegedly made forensic audits virtually impossible, potentially destroying evidence.

Question

Whistleblowers have come forward to provide information that Fujitsu was given an additional contract by the Post Office in 2013 to re-platform transaction data that was previously held on an external storage system that was considered to be the gold standard. It was replaced by a system that made it virtually impossible to investigate financial transactions in a forensic audit. Does the Justice Secretary share our concern that this decision effectively destroyed evidence, preventing exactly the sort of audit trail that would exonerate those sub-postmasters who were convicted?

Answer from Alex Chalk

The Department for Business and Trade is better placed to answer those specific points, but I would say two things. First, as a matter of sacred principle, if material comes into a prosecutor's possession that might be considered capable of undermining the case of the prosecution, that material should be disclosed to the defence. That is one of the things that has been considered by Sir Wyn Williams's inquiry. What did the Post Office know, when did it know it, and what did it do with the material before it? Across the House, we want to get to the bottom of those questions.

Partly answered

Not addressed: Specific details about the contract and its impact on evidence preservation were not addressed

How: Department For Business And Trade Is Better Placed To Answer

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