Commons Sense

House of Commons · Ministers' Questions

Strengthening the Union

Wednesday 9 September 2020 · 11 questions

Summarised by AI from the official record, so it can contain mistakes.

Read the full transcript on Parliament.uk

At a glance

Answered 2 Partly answered 4 Not answered 0

Key points

  • The Government is passionate about the Union and emphasizes its economic strength in supporting jobs and businesses.
  • The Scottish Government's figures show that Scotland benefits financially from being part of the United Kingdom.
  • The Secretary of State argues that the UK Internal Market Bill strengthens devolution and the Union, not undermining it.

Topics (select to filter)

Questions & Answers

Q1 Alexander Stafford
Democracy & Elections
Context

The question arises from concerns about strengthening and maintaining the unity of the United Kingdom.

Question

What steps his Department is taking to strengthen the Union?

Answer from Alister Jack

The Government and this Prime Minister are passionate about the Union, and the strength of the Union has never been more important or more evident. The UK has the economic strength to support jobs and businesses with generous financial packages, and it is the strength of the Union that will enable us to rebuild our economy and swiftly respond to any emerging threats to our prosperity.

Partly answered

Not addressed: Specific steps not detailed

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Q2 Bob Blackman Con Harrow East
Scotland
Context

The question stems from figures released by the Scottish Government indicating that leaving the UK would cost Scotland £15.1 billion annually.

Question

I thank my right hon. Friend for his answer. Figures released by the Scottish Government demonstrate that the cost to Scotland of leaving the United Kingdom and becoming independent would be £15.1 billion a year. We know that those figures must be true, because they were released by the SNP Government. Does he agree that, far from creating an economic case for leaving the United Kingdom, that demonstrates the strength of the Union and why Scotland is far better off being in the United Kingdom?

Answer from Alister Jack

Yes, absolutely. The Scottish Government's own figures show clearly how much Scotland benefits from being part of a strong United Kingdom, with the pooling and sharing of resources. Year after year, people in Scotland benefit from levels of public spending substantially above the United Kingdom's average, and that Union dividend is worth almost £2,000 per person to everyone in Scotland.

Answered
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Q3 Alexander Stafford
Economy Scotland
Context

The question is about the economic benefits Scotland receives from being part of the UK, as evidenced by recent figures showing £2,000 per person annually.

Question

Last month's figures from the Scottish Government confirmed that our Union is worth nearly £2,000 a year for every man, woman and child in Scotland. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we not only benefit from being one Union and one happy family together, but that the economic benefits for Scotland from the Union are huge?

Answer from Alister Jack

Yes, my hon. Friend is right. The benefits of the Union go way beyond public spending. The strength and size of the UK economy creates opportunities for Scottish businesses, and around 60% of Scotland's exports currently go to the rest of the UK. That is more than she trades with the rest of the world.

Answered
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Q4 Ian Murray Lab Edinburgh South
Northern Ireland Brexit
Context

The question addresses the Government's plan to override the Northern Ireland protocol, potentially reneging on an international treaty, which raises concerns about undermining the Union.

Question

The Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland and for Health and Social Care have confirmed that the Government will break the law by overriding the Northern Ireland protocol. That would mean reneging on the withdrawal agreement—an agreement that the Prime Minister himself negotiated, brought to this House, voted for, ratified and campaigned on at the general election. This reckless move reignites the prospect of us crashing out of the European Union with no deal. The Secretary of State himself has said previously that a no-deal outcome would “create damaging uncertainty” for the country and that he would never vote for anything that threatened or undermined the integrity of our United Kingdom. Does he think that reneging on an international treaty, breaking their promise on a deal and putting no-deal firmly back on the table strengthens or weakens the Union?

Answer from Alister Jack

First, I congratulate the hon. Gentleman and his partner on the birth of their baby daughter, Zola, which is why he is currently on paternity leave.<br/>I hope that I face even questions such as that from the hon. Gentleman for some time to come, because he is honourable, which is a lot more than can be said for many in his party—the hard left of his party—who have sought to smear and undermine him in recent days. In answer to his question, we absolutely do want a deal. We are in serious negotiations again this week because we want to get a deal, and that is our intention, but the withdrawal agreement was written on the basis that subsequent agreements could be reached through the Joint Committee, and that Joint Committee process is ongoing and we are committed to it. None the less, in the event that it cannot deal with any adverse implications for the Good Friday agreement, it is important that we have a position that creates a safety net to uphold our commitments to the members of Northern Ireland.

Not addressed: Reneging on treaty and undermining integrity

How: Congratulating Mp, Redirecting Criticism

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Q5 Ian Murray Lab Edinburgh South
Northern Ireland Scotland
Context

The question discusses the potential impact of reneging on international treaties, and the importance of focusing on public health, economy, jobs, rather than constitutional division.

Question

I am very grateful to the Secretary of State for his kind words about Zola, and if his Government could legislate for a minimum of six hours' sleep for new parents, I certainly would be the first person in the Aye Lobby to support them.<br/>The Secretary of State's Conservative colleague and prominent constitutional expert, Adam Tomkins MSP, his own—now resigned—most senior Government lawyer and many on his own Back Benches disagree with him. He must surely realise that the UK Government's recklessness only benefits those who want to break up the UK and the consequences of breaking up the UK would be dire for all of our constituents. As has already been mentioned, the Scottish Government's own figures last week showed that the UK dividend to Scotland is an extra £15 billion a year—the entire budget of the Scottish NHS. Does the Secretary of State agree with me that the focus of both the Scottish and UK Governments must be to protect public health, invest in our economy, and secure jobs and not to continue with this endless paralysing constitutional division?

Answer from Alister Jack

Well, Mr Speaker, as you have asked me to be brief, I shall answer that question with a firm yes.

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Q6 Mhairi Black SNP
Scotland
Context

The question pertains to clause 46 of the UK Internal Market Bill which grants powers to ministers to promote economic development in devolved areas.

Question

I echo the congratulations to the shadow Secretary of State. However, I will not echo the congratulations to the Union. Today, the UK Government have published their United Kingdom Internal Market Bill. I want to ask specifically about clause 46, which states that any UK Minister of the Crown may promote and directly provide economic development, effectively allowing the UK Government the powers to legislate in the following devolved areas: health; education; water; electricity; courts and pension facilities; housing; and the list goes on. Am I correct in my understanding that when the Government says that they are strengthening the Union, what they really mean is dismantling devolution?

Answer from Alister Jack

Absolutely not. We are strengthening devolution. We are bringing a power surge to Scotland—more than 100 new powers. We are not taking a single power away, and I invite the hon. Lady to name one that we are. I say that we are the party that backs devolution. The SNP is the party that wants to destroy devolution by leaving the United Kingdom.

Not addressed: Clause 46 undermining devolution

How: Claiming Strengthening Of Devolution

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Q7 Mhairi Black SNP
Economy Scotland
Context

The question concerns clause in a Bill that allegedly undermines devolved Administrations' authority, leading to concerns about the preservation of powers within Scotland.

Question

Will the Secretary of State tell me, if he is not dismantling devolution, specifically where in the Bill does it say that the UK Government must acquire the consent of the devolved Administrations?

Answer from Alister Jack

The UK Government would like to get a legislative consent motion from the devolved Administrations, but we are quite clear that we need to bring forward this UK legislation to protect jobs, to protect producers, to protect manufacturers and to protect consumers. This is a piece of legislation that, through mutual recognition and non-discrimination, strengthens our United Kingdom economy. That is important to Scotland because over £50 billion of trade is done with the rest of the UK—more than Scotland does with the rest of the world.

Partly answered

Not addressed: The answer did not specify a clause or indication in the Bill that mandates UK Government must seek consent from devolved governments, instead focusing on benefits of the legislation and economic importance to Scotland.

How: We Are Quite Clear That We Need To Bring Forward This Uk Legislation, That Is Important To Scotland Because Over £50 Billion Of Trade Is Done With The Rest Of The Uk

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Q8 Douglas Ross Con
Scotland
Context

The SNP has introduced a referendum Bill amidst rising cases of coronavirus in Scotland, which the questioner considers a misalignment of priorities.

Question

Further talk of constitutional wrangling is deeply unhelpful at a time when we continue to fight the coronavirus pandemic in Scotland and across much of the world. Does the Secretary of State therefore agree that the SNP has got its priorities completely wrong by finding time to bring forward another referendum Bill as we have seen spikes in coronavirus in Scotland and across the UK?

Answer from Alister Jack

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his appointment as leader of the Scottish Conservatives. I was sorry to lose him as a Minister, but I got to know him well, and I know very well that he will do an excellent job. He does make a very good point. It is important that we come together to fight this virus and not go back into division and constitutional wrangling. That just basically creates uncertainty and is bad for the Scottish economy and bad for Scottish jobs.

Not addressed: The answer did not address whether bringing forward a referendum Bill is incorrect during pandemic but focused on fighting virus together instead of division and uncertainty.

How: I Congratulate My Hon. Friend On His Appointment As Leader Of The Scottish Conservatives, It Is Important That We Come Together To Fight This Virus

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Q9 Pete Wishart SNP Perth and Kinross-shire
Scotland
Context

Support for independence in Scotland is at an all-time high, and clause 46 of a Bill is seen as undermining devolution.

Question

May I just say ever so gently and candidly to the right hon. Gentleman that he is not presiding over the strengthening of the Union—he is presiding over its demise? Support for independence is now at an all-time high at 55%—but after today it is going to get a lot, lot worse for him. If there was ever any doubt that this Government were determined to override the authority of the Scottish Parliament, it is clause 46 of this disgraceful Bill today. Why does he not man up? Why does he not confess and be honest with the Scottish people and tell them that this is an unadulterated power grab?

Answer from Alister Jack

For the very simple reason that it is not—and still the SNP cannot tell us one power that is being grabbed, not one single power. It is quite the contrary—more powers are being delivered to the Scottish Parliament, strengthening devolution. SNP Members do not like that. They do not like the UKIM legislation because it strengthens the United Kingdom economy, and that does not fit into their plans either.

Partly answered

Not addressed: The answer did not acknowledge undermining of devolution but instead argued against a power grab and emphasized strengthening Scottish Parliament's powers.

How: For The Very Simple Reason That It Is Not, It Is Quite The Contrary—More Powers Are Being Delivered To The Scottish Parliament, Strengthening Devolution

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Q10 Drew Hendry SNP
Northern Ireland Scotland Standards & Ethics
Context

A majority of people in Scotland want independence according to recent polls. The question concerns the UK Government's Bill that sets out steps believed to undermine devolution.

Question

In response to the fact that a majority of people in Scotland, in all recent polls, want Scotland to be independent, the Secretary of State's Government will today set out steps that betray the fact that they want to fatally undermine devolution, while declaring that they will break international law with malice aforethought. Does he believe that in being an accomplice to this, he will strengthen the Union?

Answer from Alister Jack

We have been very clear about our position. These are contingent powers that will be exercised only in cases where the Joint Committee cannot be formed or operate, or cannot come to a view at a particular time, to prevent—it is important to understand this—adverse implications for the Good Friday agreement. Our responsibility, first and foremost, is to the people of Northern Ireland. For the SNP, it is always, “Britain second, Brussels first.”

Not addressed: The answer did not address if actions undermine devolution or strengthen Union but focused on responsibility for Northern Ireland and contrast with SNP's stance.

How: These Are Contingent Powers That Will Be Exercised Only In Cases Where The Joint Committee Cannot Be Formed, Our Responsibility, First And Foremost, Is To The People Of Northern Ireland

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Q11 Tommy Sheppard SNP
Scotland
Context

Historically, Secretaries of State for Scotland have argued for more decisions to be made locally. The current Secretary of State is seen as arguing against this principle.

Question

Historically, the role of Secretary of State for Scotland has been to argue for more decisions to be made in Scotland. Does the current Secretary of State not feel ashamed and embarrassed to be the first incumbent of this office to actually argue for things to happen the other way around? Does he not realise that by so doing, he will make the argument for political independence for Scotland far better that those of us on the SNP Benches can?

Answer from Alister Jack

I utterly disagree with the hon. Gentleman. This legislation strengthens the United Kingdom. Scotland does 60% of her trade with the rest of the UK—over £50 billion. We want to protect that trade. We want to improve the Scottish economy. In no way is a single power being removed from the Scottish Government. It is quite the contrary: powers are being increased.

Partly answered

Not addressed: The answer did not address feelings about arguing against devolution but emphasized strengthening of UK and economic benefits, increasing powers to Scottish Parliament.

How: I Utterly Disagree With The Hon. Gentleman, Scotland Does 60% Of Her Trade With The Rest Of The Uk—Over £50 Billion

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