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Ways and Means
16 March 2020
Lead MP
Edward Argar
Debate Type
General Debate
Tags
NHSSocial CareTaxation
Other Contributors: 36
At a Glance
Edward Argar raised concerns about ways and means in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Lead Contributor
Opened the debate
The Government's response involves protecting life and the NHS through a £30 billion investment package announced in last week’s Budget, including support for workers, businesses, and healthcare resources. The Minister highlighted the importance of unity and adherence to public health guidelines.
Kevin Brennan
Lab Co-op
Cardiff Central
The hon. Member supports many measures but suggests considering a temporary universal basic income for freelancers and self-employed individuals during the crisis.
Stephen Doughty
Lab Co-op
Cardiff South and Penarth
He underlines support for Kevin Brennan's comments and raises concerns about personal protective equipment (PPE) distribution in care homes, asking how the Minister will ensure equitable PPE provision across all sectors of the UK.
John Redwood
Con
Wokingham
He suggests looking at revenue-sharing schemes for industries such as hospitality and travel, similar to those seen in Germany, to keep workers employed during significant loss of demand.
Bob Seely
Con
Isle of Wight
The hon. Member raises concerns about insurance companies refusing business interruption cover for businesses affected by the pandemic, urging the government to ensure that such businesses receive necessary support.
Emma Hardy
Lab
Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice
She asks for reassurances regarding the continuity of medical supplies and treatments for people with chronic conditions like epilepsy during the pandemic.
Louise Haigh
Lab
Sheffield Heeley
The hon. Member suggests rethinking the language used around at-risk groups to ensure it is clear and sensitive, proposing specific guidance for those individuals.
Asked the Minister about the Office for Budget Responsibility's view that 20% of capital promises would never happen.
Mike Amesbury
Lab
Halton and Weaver Vale
Pleaded with the Minister to ensure that Halton General Hospital campus is prioritised for capital funding.
Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire
Asked if hospitals were being divided into coronavirus and non-coronavirus sections, and suggested focusing on building new hospitals specifically to deal with the current crisis.
Ruth Cadbury
Lab
Brentford and Isleworth
Inquired about the numbers of professionals in various clinical specialisms and when they would be ready to start work, fully trained and where they would come from.
Alex Cunningham
Lab
Stockton North
Thanked the Minister for meeting him last week and discussed health inequalities and a new hospital for Stockton. Requested capital funding for the project.
Edward Argar
Con
Melton and Syston
The Minister emphasised the commitment made in the Conservative Party manifesto to help individuals with autism or learning disabilities move from hospital to community-based care, announcing a new learning disability and autism community discharge grant. He also stated that this budget will enable improvements to the NHS while tackling the coronavirus emergency.
Helen Hayes
Lab
Dulwich and West Norwood
The hon. Member inquired about arrangements during the pandemic for people with autism or learning disabilities currently in hospital, focusing on preventing further breaches of their human rights due to potential isolation measures.
Noted that a statement on coronavirus will be coming at 6 pm and there is no substantial contribution beyond this notification.
Justin Madders
Lab
Ellesmere Port and Bromborough
Welcomed the Minister back to his position after self-isolation, acknowledged the importance of public services during the coronavirus crisis, expressed condolences for those who have lost loved ones due to the pandemic. Raised concerns about accountability, transparency, and scrutiny amidst the health emergency. Questioned how additional funding would be allocated and whether further budgets might be required as resources are depleted. Highlighted pre-existing pressures on the NHS, including staff shortages and high waiting lists, suggesting that these issues make the Government's delay strategy even more critical.
A GP has been in touch with him today to say that they were in close proximity to a patient who is likely to have coronavirus and have been sent home to self-isolate, but they have not been tested. He questioned how the GP will know when they can return to work safely without testing.
Jim McMahon
Lab Co-op
Oldham West, Chadderton and Royton
The case that has been outlined is very important, but we also need to remember social careworkers who visit people in their homes are at high risk without testing plans. Many of them are paid just over the minimum wage, raising questions about valuing community workers and NHS staff.
Justin Madders
Lab
Ellesmere Port and Bromborough
Protecting NHS staff should include cleaners, porters and other essential staff. Data collection is crucial for informed decision-making. Urged medical schools to fast-track final year students but needs clarity on rigorous testing requirements. Asked about contingencies for trust finances during the crisis.
Stephen Doughty
Lab Co-op
Cardiff South and Penarth
Suggested calling up full-time reserve service members of medical corps to use all available resources in tackling the virus.
Asked if Government is still pursuing herd immunity or minimising transmission through social distancing and resource allocation.
Emma Hardy
Lab
Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice
Requested clarity on self-isolation guidance, specifically whether people can go for walks outside or walk pets alone during isolation.
Ruth Cadbury
Lab
Brentford and Isleworth
Expressed concern about council tenants at risk of rent arrears due to loss of income from self-isolation or job loss, urging Government support for councils in addressing this issue.
Justin Madders
Lab
Ellesmere Port and Bromborough
Social care has been neglected in the current Budget despite significant cuts to local authorities' adult social care budgets. The system is at breaking point and may face further strain due to coronavirus, necessitating immediate action. Mr. Madders highlights concerns over personal protective equipment availability for social care staff and the impact of zero-hours contracts on sick pay entitlements. He also questions the lack of guidance regarding visitor restrictions in care homes and financial support for providers facing cost pressures. The speaker calls for robust public services funded adequately to tackle the disease spread, emphasising the need for clear, consistent government action.
David Mundell
Con
Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale
Mr Mundell discussed the impact of past crises on businesses and communities, particularly focusing on the 2001 foot and mouth disease crisis. He emphasised that small businesses need grants rather than loans for support during difficult times. He also noted the importance of infrastructure investment in Scotland, such as upgrading roads like the A75 and A76. Additionally, he addressed the issue of access to cash in rural areas and stressed the need for sustainable funding for ATM networks.
John Glen
Con
Salisbury
Mr Glen indicated assent without providing a detailed contribution.
Peter Grant
SNP
Galloway and West Dumfries
Commends David Mundell for his measured tone. Mentions the Scottish Government's spending decisions made in the Scottish Parliament, providing contact details of Oliver Mundell. Emphasises that SNP will not participate in detailed discussions about funding due to devolved powers. Discusses significant economic changes due to the coronavirus outbreak and its permanent impact on economies across the UK. Supports the Government’s emergency actions while highlighting areas for improvement. Encourages civilised discussion and flexibility from the Government. Highlights the severe impact of the crisis on small independent cafés and restaurants in his constituency.
Patrick Grady
SNP
Glasgow North
Supports initiatives like crowdfunding campaigns for businesses affected by the coronavirus outbreak, such as The Hug and Pint and folk music enterprises. Encourages people to support these small businesses during difficult times.
Peter Grant
Lab
Glenrothes
Supports businesses but believes emergency measures announced by the Chancellor do not go far enough. Warns of potential closures and job losses in various sectors, including hospitality, retail, transport, and accommodation services. Emphasises the inadequacy of social security systems to support those affected. Criticises the immigration policy as illogical and immoral. Calls for a more substantial fiscal response and criticises the Government's approach to public finances.
Greg Clark
Con
Islington North
Stressed the importance of basing policy on scientific advice during the coronavirus crisis, emphasised the need for open and constructive scientific debate, and called for transparency in the publication of evidence. Highlighted the positive budget allocations for science and research, with a target of raising R&D spending to 2.4% of GDP by 2027 and an increase in publicly funded research to £22 billion by 2024-25. Also mentioned the importance of preserving skills and jobs during economic disruptions.
Jack Dromey
Lab
Birmingham, Erdington
A dark cloud is descending on our world, threatening the lives and livelihoods of millions of people across the globe. We have only to see what is happening in Italy to recognise just what could be coming to our own country. The health service, the police service and social care, already stretched by 10 years of austerity, are stretched even further. None the less, now is not the time to panic, nor is it the time to engage in politics as usual. There needs to be a unity of purpose across the House, particularly on two key objectives. The first is to protect our people, especially the elderly and vulnerable. The second is to minimise the impact on our economy, ensuring that, nationally and internationally, a global recession does not happen, and does not become a global depression.
Last week, the Chancellor said that manufacturing was going through a tough period. That may prove to be an understatement. We were facing a tough period before the advent of the virus. According to the Office for National Statistics, we started 2020 with a flatlining economy, and “yet another decline in manufacturing, particularly the drinks, car and machinery industries.” That is why Make UK, the old Engineering Employers’ Federation, rightly called on the Government yesterday to step in to limit coronavirus damage to prevent further drastic decline in manufacturing and large-scale job losses. There were a series of positive messages in the Budget, which I welcomed—no doubt about it. Crucially, though, the Government need to do more during the next stages. It was welcome that the Budget included measures relating to the environmental transformation of the automotive industry, by which I mean the move to electric cars. For the next stage, it is important that we see further significant moves, of the kind that the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders has called for, on tax-free electric vehicles—£5,000 off VAT on vehicles alone—which would greatly boost the production and sale of electric vehicles. It was my own experience that led me to that view. During the global crash in 2008, when I was deputy general secretary of the old Transport and General Workers’ Union—we later became Unite—Tony Woodley and I were involved in negotiations with the then Labour Government on emergency measures, one of which was the scrappage scheme. As a consequence of that scheme, 400,000 cars were built. That avoided what could have been a catastrophe in the automotive industry. In the first six months of the scheme, notwithstanding what was happening in the global and domestic economy, we saw a 31% increase in the registration of new cars. Had it not been for that scrappage scheme, we would have seen the closure of those car plants.
With my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), I was also involved in the negotiation of the Kickstart programme, which saw 115,000 homes built, some 110,000 jobs safeguarded and the saving of thousands of small and medium-sized businesses that would otherwise have gone to the wall. Those big measures were critical at the time. This Government need to think big going forward. Crucially, they need to bring together the voice of the world of work. The employers and the trade unions need to discuss the key next stage objectives especially, as the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) said in his excellent speech, in relation to short-term working. That has been called for by the SMMT, the aerospace, defence, security and space industries, Unite, the TUC, and the GMB.
I am talking about employers’ organisations and unions coming together to argue that such arrangements have the ability to protect the industrial capacity of British manufacturers. In particular, they pray in aid the German model, which was first used in 2008, significantly expanded and then followed by other countries such as Japan, Belgium, France, and Austria. That scheme created a fund to pay workers up to 60% of their foregone net wages if factory production were temporarily cut. The scheme allowed employers to cut production temporarily without cutting jobs, thereby maintaining vital capacity. It was credited by the OECD for saving 500,000 jobs in German industry. Back then, unemployment held at 7.5% in Germany—a rise of just 0.2%. The country therefore managed to preserve the capacity to undertake the rebuilding of the economy. Jobs were saved, pay continued, and experience and skills were retained.
That model is being used successfully in response to covid-19 in Denmark, where the Government have brought together unions and employers’ associations, and agreed a deal for affected industries whereby the state pays 75% of workers’ wages and employers pay 25%. Workers also give up five days of paid holiday, and in exchange there are no lay-offs. In the words of the Prime Minister of Denmark: “If there’s a big drop in activity, and production is halted, we understand the need to send home employees. But we ask you: Don’t fire them”. Only this afternoon, a major employer in my constituency that has invested massively in increasing its capacity—I cannot name the company—has said that it desperately needs short-term measures to preserve that capacity, if it is to be able to rebuild after the immediate challenges posed to the economy.
Although there are welcome measures in the Budget, the Government need to be more ambitious at the next stages and to work with the world of work. There is no question but that the threat posed is enormous and real, not only to life and limb, but to our economy and ability to recover. What we do now will determine whether we have recession or depression. The role of the Government, working with the world of work, is key to that process. I urge the Government to rise to that challenge.
Burnley
As the newly elected Conservative MP for Burnley, I am honoured to represent my constituents and carry on the commitment to end hospital car parking charges. My constituency is rich in history, entrepreneurship, and community spirit, with more than 425 businesses starting up last year alone. The UK's status as one of the best places globally to start a business aligns with my goal to make Burnley the premier location for new enterprises within the UK. I will advocate for increased support from the Government for local businesses, ensuring they have access to free trade agreements and the resources needed for investment in technology and research and development. The recent Budget supports this mission by providing funding for schools, increasing police funding, and investing in infrastructure.
Chris Matheson
Lab
Cardigan
Chris Matheson welcomed the maiden speech of Antony Higginbotham and acknowledged his former boss, Jack Dromey's advice to tone down political criticism during the national crisis. He highlighted two main concerns in the Budget: social care funding and heritage city preservation. He expressed concern over the lack of additional funding for social care despite rising costs, which is pushing families to breaking point due to cuts to public services. Additionally, Matheson discussed the strain on heritage cities like Chester due to insufficient direct government funding, forcing local authorities to choose between maintaining historical assets or providing essential services.
Don Valley
Fletcher introduces himself with a story about Tommy, highlighting the importance of positive role models and community investment to improve life chances for young people. He mentions the impact of doubling flood defence spending, family financial support through tax measures, infrastructure investments including hospitals, and funding for football clubs. Fletcher also emphasises the need for accountability and personal responsibility in becoming good examples within communities.
Afzal Khan
Lab
Manchester Rusholme
The Budget has failed to address the social crisis exacerbated by a decade of austerity and cuts. The speaker highlights the negative impact on children living in poverty, homelessness, and food bank usage due to delays in universal credit payments and lack of government action on issues like the two-child limit and benefit cap. He also welcomes measures addressing housing but criticises the local housing allowance rates and calls for affordable social housing.
Lia Nici
Con
Great Grimsby
Welcomes the Chancellor's announcements on free ports, carbon capture and storage infrastructure fund, small business support during coronavirus, and extension of 100% business rate relief. Emphasises historical importance of Great Grimsby in fishing industry and its future potential in offshore wind maintenance and emerging technologies.
Dan Jarvis
Lab
Barnsley North
Mr Jarvis emphasised the importance of social infrastructure and key workers in combating the coronavirus pandemic. He highlighted the need for support to small businesses, healthcare professionals, and carers while urging everyone to follow expert advice and demonstrate common decency during uncertain times. Mr Jarvis also expressed concern over panic buying and stockpiling and called for unity and leadership to maintain a strong social fabric.
Government Response
Minister responds positively to concerns raised by MPs regarding PPE availability in care homes, business interruption insurance issues, clarity around language used for at-risk groups, and continuity of medical supplies. Emphasised the commitment made in the Conservative Party manifesto to help individuals with autism or learning disabilities move from hospital to community-based care. He also stated that this budget will enable improvements to the NHS while tackling the coronavirus emergency, responding to Helen Hayes' concern about human rights breaches by ensuring proper arrangements during the pandemic.
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