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Covid-19 Update
21 September 2020
Lead MP
Matthew Hancock
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
NHSSocial CareEmploymentBenefits & WelfareChildren & Families
Other Contributors: 40
At a Glance
Matthew Hancock raised concerns about covid-19 update in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The Health Secretary announces that the number of new cases in Europe is higher than during the peak in March, with ONS figures indicating around 6,000 new infections a day. The epidemic doubles every seven days and could see up to 50,000 daily cases by mid-October if current trends continue. He outlines that social distancing measures remain crucial, including self-isolation for those who have tested positive or are close contacts. A £500 isolation support payment will be introduced for people on low incomes starting next Monday. The Government is proposing a new legal duty to self-isolate and fines of up to £10,000 for repeat offences. NHS Test and Trace will increase capacity with two new Lighthouse labs in Newcastle and Bracknell, focusing on testing priorities such as acute clinical care, care homes, NHS staff, outbreak management, and schools. Local measures are being introduced in parts of the north-east, north-west, West Yorkshire, and midlands to restrict socialising outside households and operating hours for hospitality venues. An exemption is announced for informal childcare arrangements necessary for caring purposes.
Jeremy Hunt
Con
Godalming and Ash
Question
I support the measures outlined by the Health Secretary, which regrettably are both necessary and proportionate. Last week, on World Patient Safety Day, the WHO announced a charter for health worker protection, which asks all WHO member states to commit not only to having adequate supplies of personal protective equipment and mental health support, but to ensuring that there is zero tolerance of violence against health workers. Will he commit the Government to signing up to the charter so that, as we go into a second wave, all our brave frontline workers know that this Government and this House stand four-square behind them?
Minister reply
Yes, I will happily sign up to the proposals that my right hon. Friend has set out. As the House well knows, his long-standing and international work on patient safety is very impressive. We must ensure that in these difficult times we protect our care workers and frontline staff—including, if I may say so, the staff at the testing centres—and that we reiterate once again our commitment to patient safety.
Central Ayrshire
Question
Asked whether it is possible to bring forward the goal of achieving 500,000 tests per day and inquired about NHS funding for testing.
Minister reply
Acknowledged that if they can bring forward the target of achieving 500,000 daily tests from the end of October, they will do so. Stated that conversations have taken place between NHS Scotland and England to achieve this goal and confirmed that funding is committed.
Chris Grayling
Con
Richmond Park
Question
Noted regional variations in virus impact and questioned the case for further national measures.
Minister reply
Agreed on balancing national measures with local interventions, expanding some of those interventions to cover larger geographies where necessary.
Twickenham
Question
Asked about prioritisation of testing in care homes and the situation regarding staff providing care in people's homes.
Minister reply
Emphasised the importance of care home testing, noting that some response times have been brought down but they aim to increase capacity further. Tests are available for all vulnerable individuals.
Greg Clark
Con
Islington North
Question
Asked why those who must self-isolate cannot be tested after seven days.
Minister reply
Explained that the current period of isolation is 14 days based on scientific evidence, but would look into further research if presented.
Mary Foy
Lab
City of Durham
Question
Asked whether a £10,000 fine will act as a disincentive to poorer people getting tested.
Minister reply
Clarified that extra support of £500 is provided for those on low incomes who self-isolate and test positive.
Harriett Baldwin
Con
West Worcestershire
Question
Asked about the advice given to people who would normally go to A&E.
Minister reply
Suggested calling 111 First for triage before going to A&E or using 999 in emergencies.
Question
Inquired about reports of people being unable to get tested and some having to travel long distances.
Minister reply
Acknowledged ongoing challenges but stated that many issues have been resolved, including the example cited by the MP.
Question
Welcomed commitment to expanding testing capacity and encouraged support for private businesses like BAE in providing testing.
Minister reply
Supported businesses and others outside NHS Test and Trace who wish to test their employees, ensuring data flows to Public Health England.
Kim Johnson
Lab
Liverpool Riverside
Question
Asked about additional resources planned for Liverpool amid rising case numbers.
Minister reply
Confirmed increased testing in Liverpool and support for low-income individuals who must self-isolate, emphasising the need to follow rules.
Question
The whole country will recognise the unenviable choices that the Government face at this time. Whatever further measures are in contemplation for the days ahead, may I issue a plea for proportionality? Does the Secretary of State agree that human beings in a free society must have a right to some social contact as they go about their daily lives, even at this difficult time?
Minister reply
I agree with that 100%. We put in place support bubbles for single households—those who live alone—during the lockdown precisely for that reason. I remember having a Zoom with a whole load of people and somebody said, “I haven’t seen anybody in person for four months,” and I thought that could not be good or right. We have put in place support bubbles for single households for that purpose and of course bear such impacts in mind when we take the decisions we take.
Question
I am sure the Secretary of State will agree that we in Kirklees and West Yorkshire are working hard as a team to meet the crisis in these uncertain times, with tens of thousands of students now moving across the country. Will he bear in mind the fact that our system relies on fit and healthy NHS staff? The crisis we are in is getting worse, and if we get a virulent flu virus this winter, which is coming soon, and that knocks out a large percentage of NHS staff, we are going to be in serious trouble. A significant percentage of NHS workers are refusing to get a flu jab; what can we do about that?
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman and I have occasionally tangled across these Dispatch Boxes, but I wholeheartedly support what he said and agree with him entirely. It is policy that everybody in the NHS should get a flu jab. The NHS flu programme has already started to roll out and will shortly roll out more broadly. Although it is not mandated this year, I can see no good reason why somebody in the NHS should not get a flu jab, unless they have a very specific clinical condition. We look to all NHS staff to provide leadership in their communities by getting the flu jab. It is free for everybody who works in health and social care and they should get it.
Alec Shelbrooke
Con
Wetherby and Easingwold
Question
It was brought to my attention by parents this weekend that some Leeds City Council schools in my constituency are telling parents that if their child has an upset stomach or general malaise they need to go home, isolate and not come back to school until they have had a negative test. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that is not NHS England advice, and puts unwarranted pressure on the test and trace system? Does he agree that Leeds City Council should get a grip on this immediately?
Minister reply
I am afraid I do agree. All councils, including Leeds City Council, should make it clear that if students have coronavirus symptoms—and we all know what they are: a new continuous cough, a temperature or a loss of taste and smell—they should come forward for a test. If they have symptoms of another illness—not coronavirus symptoms—they should not come forward for a test. We have set this out very clearly once again in the prioritisation document that we have published today, and I hope that everyone will follow it.
James Murray
Lab Co-op
Ealing North
Question
Schools that become aware of a covid-19 case have been encouraged to take swift action and contact the dedicated advice service introduced by Public Health England. However, several primary school heads in my constituency have reported that the service appears to be overwhelmed, with significant delays in Public Health England getting back to schools with advice. Can the Secretary of State tell me what the average waiting time is between a school contacting Public Health England and its receiving the advice that it needs?
Minister reply
I do not have those figures, but I would be very happy to look into specific cases, because the speed of turnaround in the instance that the hon. Gentleman describes is very important.
Question
My right hon. Friend and his scientific advisers are absolutely right—the virus is not getting any weaker—but doctors, including many in my constituency of South Cambridgeshire, have made great progress in the treatment of coronavirus, and social distancing means that viral loads are less, making cases less severe for many people. Can he tell me what estimate he has made of the impact of these developments on the fatality rates for those who are affected?
Minister reply
Yes, of course. My hon. Friend represents one of the finest hospitals not just in the country but in the world. The clinicians who work at Addenbrooke’s and across the country have improved the treatment of coronavirus. We know that treatment with dexamethasone has reduced the death rate. We know that, because of earlier oxygenation and later intubation, that has reduced the death rate. There is also progress with remdesivir. Nevertheless, while that has reduced mortality for those going into hospital, the virus remains deadly, so unfortunately we have to take measures to stop its spread, not least because we can either take measures now or we will end up with a much bigger problem, still having to take measures later.
Rupa Huq
Lab
Ealing Central and Acton
Question
Top-rated medical research has continuously linked vitamin D levels with covid incidence. In Norway, where people have high amounts, cases are rare, whereas here, most Brits are deficient. It is rarely found in food, and the main source—sunlight—is about to disappear, with a possible winter NHS crisis on the way. Will the Secretary of State follow the science, as there is no vaccine in sight, and seek to prescribe supplements on the NHS, or at least run a public information campaign? People need something positive now that the nights are drawing in.
Minister reply
Vitamin D is one of the many things that we have looked into, to see whether it reduces the incidence or impact of coronavirus. I have seen reports that it does, so we put it into a trial. Unfortunately, the results were that it does not appear to have any impact. That is the latest clinical advice, which is always kept under review.
Question
Does my right hon. Friend agree that balancing the measures to tackle covid with the other health consequences, such as cancer patients going undiagnosed or not being treated in time, and the economic and social consequences is a political judgment, and does he further agree that political judgments are improved by debate and scrutiny?
Minister reply
Yes, I do. I come to this Dispatch Box as often as possible. I am very sorry that I was unable to come on Friday to discuss Friday’s decision, but the House was not sitting. I agree with my hon. Friend that, essentially, the more scrutiny, the better; that is my attitude. I am very happy to continue to work with him and with you, Mr Speaker, to ensure that that scrutiny can be done at the speed that is sometimes required for these decisions to be made.
Stella Creasy
Lab Co-op
Walthamstow
Question
I am delighted to have just heard the Secretary of State’s previous answer, because, in a former life, he and I both served on the Public Accounts Committee, so I know that he will understand that every taxpayer living in a community facing a lockdown or unable to get a test deserves a straight answer on whether his Department has imposed a financial penalty or withheld payments for the many voided tests undertaken by Randox. Will he give an answer to that question today?
Minister reply
Randox delivers a very significant number of tests every single day—it is a growing number. In fact, it is currently outperforming the allocation that we have asked it to deliver, and I pay tribute to every single person who works at Randox for the work that they have done and the part that they have played in keeping people safe. Everybody who gets a Randox test result, just like every other test result, has more information that they can use to keep themselves safe, and we have more information that we can use to try to keep the whole of society safe.
Question
I thank the Secretary of State for his Department’s allocation to Scunthorpe General Hospital last week. I also wish him well with the ongoing work for some extra funding for Goole and District Hospital. On tests for schools, the feedback I have had from schools in my constituency has been very positive about the 10 tests with which they have been issued. Will he continue to seek to grow that number and look in particular at a lot of the rural schools where getting access to a test is particularly difficult due to transport issues?
Minister reply
Yes, giving 10 tests to all schools across the country has proved very popular, according to the feedback that I have had. I am very glad to hear that that is true in my hon. Friend’s part of the world as well. Of course we will continue that, with the right level of tests being sent out to the right types of schools in the right places, and I will make sure that we take into account rurality as one of those factors.
Tonia Antoniazzi
Lab
Gower
Question
On Friday afternoon, the Department for Work and Pensions informed Jobcentre staff that, from today, they have to reintroduce face-to-face 10 minute work search interviews with customers. So, Secretary of State, in the light of the rising number of cases and with everyone meant to be playing their part, is this really a sensible approach to be taking?
Minister reply
One of the good things about where we are now compared with where we were in March is that, in many areas, we are better prepared. We are better prepared in the NHS. We are better prepared in social care with the winter plan that we put out last week, and many employers and services, such as jobcentres, have been able to develop covid-secure approaches, which means that they can get on with the things that they need to do. The specifics of the question, of course, are for my right hon. Friend the Work and Pensions Secretary, but the principle of how we, as a society, manage to do more things while keeping ourselves covid secure is one that, thankfully, we have been able to develop over the past six months.
Jason McCartney
Con
Colne Valley
Question
I very much welcome the Health Secretary’s approach not only to save lives, but to protect livelihoods. Can he confirm what new arrangements are for childcare exemptions and if those in Kirklees will be part of it?
Minister reply
The exemption means that family members or others who provide continuous unpaid childcare akin to paid childcare can be exempted from restrictions.
Bill Esterson
Lab
Sefton Central
Question
Will the Secretary of State clear up ambiguities and improve compliance with new restrictions such as socialising outside households?
Minister reply
The message is that people should not socialise outside their household.
Question
What support can be given to ensure enforcement of face covering rules in retail settings and elsewhere?
Minister reply
More enforcement is necessary, as it will help get a grip on the virus and lessen overall impact on the economy and education.
Question
Does the Secretary of State agree that Scotland needs more powers and financial levers to implement its own local decisions?
Minister reply
Regular engagement with other Health Ministers ensures a united approach, including with the Scottish Government.
Question
What assurances can he give that care homes will be protected and lessons learned from previous waves of the virus?
Minister reply
The social care winter plan developed with the sector aims to protect people in care homes as much as possible.
Tulip Siddiq
Lab
Hampstead and Highgate
Question
Will the Secretary of State give a cast-iron guarantee that local NHS will be given all needed resources so that the closure at Royal Free Hospital's children’s A&E is strictly temporary?
Minister reply
The hon. Member can work with him on this question, and he would be happy to meet her to discuss specifics.
Edward Leigh
Con
Gainsborough
Question
If the Secretary of State does not listen to me, will he at least listen to Professor Mark Woolhouse’s suggestions on alternatives to lockdowns?
Minister reply
The Conservative principle is protecting health in the face of this pandemic by putting people's lives first.
Question
When will 24-hour turnaround times for tests for care homes be achieved so that elderly can be kept safe?
Minister reply
Turnaround times are coming down, and the number of tests going to social care is being protected.
Question
Will the Secretary of State look at SureScreen’s antigen test that can be ready in 15 minutes and ramp up its production?
Minister reply
He is very happy to talk to his hon. Friend about SureScreen in her constituency.
Question
Will the Secretary of State say emphatically that those prevented from going on holiday due to local lockdowns must have a full refund?
Minister reply
He is very happy to work with the hon. Gentleman and others to make sure people get fair treatment.
Bernard Jenkin
Con
Harwich and North Essex
Question
Why are senior military commanders being excluded from key decision-making roles?
Minister reply
The military’s support has been brilliant in expanding testing systems, developing test and trace, and working on vaccine roll-out plans.
Question
Can the Secretary of State assure me that any further major national restrictions will reflect the low levels of infection in areas like North Norfolk?
Minister reply
It is critical to get the right balance between measures taken nationally and locally, according to local rates of infection.
Liz Twist
Lab
Blaydon and Consett
Question
There will be a number of relieved parents in my constituency because of the change in informal childcare. I have spoken to primary and secondary headteachers across Gateshead, and it is clear that their difficulty in obtaining tests and getting results quickly is causing real disruption for schools and not allowing them to take swift action to stop onward transmission. I note that the Secretary of State listed teachers in his statement, but will he do more to ensure that tests are available for teaching staff and that results are available more quickly?
Minister reply
Of course I am working to exactly that end. If somebody has the symptoms of coronavirus, they should self-isolate even if they cannot get a test. I understand how frustrating that is, and I am working as hard as I can to try to get those turnaround times as fast as possible.
Question
The self-isolation support payment of £500 comes into force next Monday for those on lower incomes who cannot work from home and stand to lose income. Of course, it is being distributed through local councils in England. Given that local government is a devolved matter, has my right hon. Friend had conversations with the Welsh Government about replicating the policy in Wales?
Minister reply
Yes, the UK Government will be providing the funding so that the devolved Administrations are able to put similar support in place. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster spoke to the First Minister of Wales over the weekend to ensure that in Wales people can get the level of support that we are introducing in England.
Question
The Secretary of State is quite right: these are serious times, and we require serious answers, so can he answer the following? It has prioritised VIPs over the public; it has a failure rate of over 90% on testing targets; it has the highest voided tests of any lab, including 12,401 in a single day; it has Conservative MPs on the payroll, and it was found by the National Police Chiefs’ Council to have committed the most serious breach of standards by manipulating forensic tests. Why, then, was Randox Laboratories judged an appropriate company to be handed a £133 million contract to the exclusion of all others—or will the Secretary of State again resort to a churlish response, proving that the rules do not apply to this increasingly lawless Government?
Minister reply
I implore the hon. Gentleman to support all those who are working so hard to deliver the tests that people need. Every other question on testing is, “Can we have more tests, please?” and we hear stories about just how much these tests are needed. I think we should be there supporting the people who are doing the testing.
Question
My right hon. Friend has many invidious choices to continue to make, but, further to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Altrincham and Sale West (Sir Graham Brady), the wider health implications of covid-19 cannot be overstated. They include delayed cancer diagnosis, missed stroke and heart attack treatments, and the cancellation of elective surgery. Will my right hon. Friend therefore confirm that the Nightingale hospitals will be brought back online to minimise impacts on wider healthcare?
Minister reply
The Nightingale hospitals are there, ready to go if they are needed. They are currently mothballed and can be reopened very rapidly. We are working incredibly hard with the NHS to ensure that this time around there is the absolute minimum disruption to other treatments, but of course the first, best minimisation of impacts on other treatments is not to have a sharp rise in the number of people going to hospital with covid. Our plan learns from what happened before. Of course there is the much more widespread capability for testing, both in the NHS and outside, thanks to the hard work of companies such as Randox and others. That means that we will be better placed than last time around to keep the rest of the NHS running, but it does not mean that we can rest easy in terms of rising cases, because of course the easiest way for the NHS to operate is to keep covid cases low.
Tim Farron
Lib Dem
Westmorland and Lonsdale
Question
Over the weekend I have been listening to headteachers from around the south Lakes, who tell me that they are under increasing pressure, with teaching staff, teaching assistants and others off work, struggling to book a test slot. Some have been advised to travel as far as Brighton, a 10-hour round trip, and some pupils are off school for 10 days waiting for a test of their own. Our teachers are doing their job brilliantly. Is it not time that the Government did theirs and provided a testing scheme that works?
Minister reply
I would be very interested in the examples, especially of people being sent long distances, because, as I said earlier, the information I have been given is that that problem has been resolved. I am working incredibly hard to resolve all the other problems and to bring to bear the record testing capacity that we have.
Question
Again, I support my right hon. Friend and his statement today, but I echo calls for what comes next to reflect the reality on the ground in areas such as mine, where rates are way down on the England average. Linked to that, as we move into what is clearly the next phase of this battle, will he look at a much more devolved and decentralised test, track and trace system? I think “keep Winchester safe” will have much more cut-through with my constituents, and that is surely better managed in Hampshire.
Minister reply
Yes. We need the scale of the national system and the resonance of the local system and the local knowledge. We are increasingly driving things in that direction, and I would love to talk to my hon. Friend, who is incredibly knowledgeable in these matters, to see what more we can do.
Question
I thank the Secretary of State for his and his officials’ incredible efforts over the last few days that have meant he was able to make the statement today that informal childcare will sit alongside formal childcare to allow those selfless grandparents across the north-east and elsewhere where local restrictions have to be brought in to make sure, out of the goodness of their hearts and the love of their families, that their sons and daughters can go to work—often low-paid, seasonal work with difficult hours. I thank him for that. Does he also agree that it is for all of us to be selfless, not selfish, as we try to get to grips with the second wave?
Minister reply
That is a good point on which to end, because my right hon. Friend has worked incredibly hard over the last four or five days to try to ensure that we find a way to protect people who use informal childcare without unnecessarily harming others by widening the exemption beyond what is needed. It is important to control the virus and keep listening to people as to how best to do that, and she has helped enormously. Her final point is critical, which is that we all have a role to play in taking seriously the rise in cases and hospitalisations that we have seen and making sure that we are all doing our bit to control coronavirus.
Shadow Comment
Jeremy Hunt
Shadow Comment
The shadow health secretary supports the measures outlined by the Health Secretary, describing them as both necessary and proportionate. He asks the Government to sign up to a WHO charter on health worker protection that includes zero tolerance of violence against health workers.
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