← Back to House of Commons Debates
EU Exit: Negotiations and the Joint Committee
19 October 2020
Lead MP
Michael Gove
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
Crime & Law EnforcementEconomyTaxationBrexitBusiness & Trade
Other Contributors: 41
At a Glance
Michael Gove raised concerns about eu exit: negotiations and the joint committee in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The Minister updated the House on the UK's negotiations with the European Union regarding a future trading relationship and preparations for the end of the transition period. He highlighted that despite initial hopes, a Canada-style free trade agreement will not be concluded by December 31, 2020 due to lack of progress in EU negotiations. The statement emphasised the need for a fundamental change in approach from the EU if further talks are to proceed meaningfully. Without such changes, the UK will leave on 'Australian terms' and trade under WTO rules, unless the EU revises its position. Gove outlined steps taken by the government to prepare businesses for these outcomes, including public information campaigns, HMRC communications with traders, border infrastructure investments (£705 million), and enhancements in maritime security. Additionally, he provided an update on progress within the Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee, noting constructive discussions despite remaining issues.
Theresa May
Lab
Walton
Question
The shadow minister questioned whether, under a no-deal scenario, UK's law enforcement agencies will continue to have access to critical databases like PNR for identifying and apprehending criminals and potential terrorists.
Question
Asked the Minister about security concerns in case of no-deal Brexit, noting that police and law enforcement agencies will lose access to necessary databases if there is no deal.
Minister reply
Replied that progress has been made on security co-operation but EU insists on ECJ jurisdiction for database access. He also highlighted areas where UK can cooperate more effectively outside of the EU.
Pete Wishart
SNP
Perth and Kinross-shire
Question
Strongly criticised the Government’s approach to Brexit negotiations, urging for independence referendum in Scotland due to majority support.
Minister reply
Replied with a critique of SNP's language and expressed regret over Scottish policy on common fisheries policy.
Chingford and Woodford Green
Question
Asked about the issues in withdrawal agreement, noting EU’s lack of engagement in financial services negotiations.
Minister reply
Acknowledged difficulties but welcomed constructive moves from the EU and expressed commitment to iron out remaining issues.
Hilary Benn
Lab
Leeds South
Question
Asked why businesses are being told they have their heads in the sand when government cannot provide clear guidance on post-Brexit trade.
Minister reply
Agreed with the criticism, emphasising need for EU to engage constructively and acknowledged ongoing preparations despite uncertainties.
Question
Commended local resilience forum in Hampshire for plans to ensure Portsmouth port continues supporting EU-bound freight.
Minister reply
Acknowledged the hard work of Portsmouth authorities and mentioned additional resources being sought to avoid traffic congestion near the port.
Question
Asked whether the Government will agree protections for workers' rights and environment in order to reach a Canada-style trade deal.
Minister reply
Rejected the suggestions, stating that they do not intend to break international law or accept EU rules.
Andy Carter
Lab
Warrington South
Question
As my right hon. Friend mentioned in his statement, Warrington is set to be the location of a new inland border facility on a former coach interchange in my constituency. Will he tell us a little more about what that will mean for jobs in my local area? What assurances can he give to local residents who are concerned about lorries clogging up village roads?
Minister reply
My colleague Lord Agnew, the Cabinet Office Minister, has been in touch with my hon. Friend and with the local authority to stress that there will be additional investment, which will mean more jobs in Warrington. We expect that there will be an additional 375 jobs created in Warrington, split between new jobs for colleagues in the Border Force, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, Mitie and the haulage firm Wincanton. The current expectation is that that number will rise to around 460 jobs by December next year. We are also working to make sure that there is appropriate additional funding to ensure that there is no additional traffic problem for him, his constituents or those in neighbouring villages.
Barry Sheerman
Lab
Huddersfield
Question
I have known the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster all his political career. May I urge him not to keep the door ajar but to open the door to continuing negotiations? Not to have a deal would be a historic, shameful failure. It would hurt my constituents and his, with broken businesses and unemployment, and blight the future of a new generation and generations to come. Please, I beg him to try again for all of us.
Minister reply
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments. We sincerely want an agreement, but we cannot have an agreement on any terms.
Nicola Richards
Lab
Wolverhampton East
Question
The UK will prosper mightily as an independent free trading nation with control over our money, laws and borders. What support has my right hon. Friend put in place to help business leaders in West Bromwich East prepare for the changes and opportunities that that will bring when we leave the transition period at the end of this year?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Fundamentally, whatever turbulence may occur, whatever bumps in the road there might be in the months ahead, the strengths and resilience of our economy mean that we will prosper mightily.
Lagan Valley
Question
Protecting the Good Friday agreement means protecting Northern Ireland’s place as an integral part of the United Kingdom, for that is the settled will of the people of Northern Ireland exercised through the principle of consent. Will the Secretary of State give us an update on discussions in the Joint Committee on the issue of export declarations and the fact that they are not required for goods travelling from Northern Ireland to Great Britain? Will he also give us an update on the issue of goods at risk and the EU attitude on this, to ensure that goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland that are not passing on to the Republic of Ireland are not subject to unnecessary and costly disruption?
Minister reply
My right hon. Friend makes three very important points. On the first, about exit declarations, he is absolutely right: the protocol is there both to help us safeguard the EU’s single market, but also to affirm Northern Ireland’s integral place in the United Kingdom and within its customs territory, and there is no need for customs declarations for goods coming from Northern Ireland to the rest of Great Britain.
Cynon
Question
The toughest negotiators in this country are the farmers in my constituency, and my farmers recognise at this moment that my right hon. Friend and Lord Frost are excellent negotiators. That is borne out by the news that the talks are intensifying, including on legal texts. May I ask my right hon. Friend to meet me to talk about business engagement, especially in the agricultural sector in the devolved Administrations environment, since the devolved Administrations seem hostile to us getting any kind of successful deal?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is absolutely right: I have met farmers in his constituency, and a tougher bunch of negotiators we would be hard-pressed to find.
Central Ayrshire
Question
The UK imports 37 million packets of medicines from the EU every single month. The pharmaceutical industry has highlighted the difficulty in rebuilding full stockpiles for the end of transition due to the impact of covid, so, with just 74 days to go, how will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that there are no drug shortages, particularly of insulin, which the UK does not produce, and radioisotopes, which cannot be stockpiled?
Minister reply
The hon. Lady brings formidable expertise to this area, and she is absolutely right to highlight the fact that we need rapid access to both insulin and radioisotopes.
Damian Green
Con
Ashford
Question
First, I should pay tribute to the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Rachel Maclean), for her exemplary communications with my constituents who live near the Sevington lorry park; I am very grateful.
I still hope and expect that we will get a deal, but either way, may I ask my right hon. Friend how confident he is that the smart freight system will be fully operational by 1 January, and if it is not, what does he think will happen?
Minister reply
I join my right hon. Friend in praising the efforts of the Transport Minister, who has been incredibly energetic and determined to make sure that colleagues in Kent from all parties are kept informed on the progress of our preparations.
Kevin Brennan
Lab
Cardiff West
Question
We have heard it all now: it is just, according to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, “an unfortunate sequence of events”, otherwise known as the Lemony Snicket defence—all the fault of evil uncle Olaf and his foreign friends. But on the serious point about this, consider how it will affect, for example, our musicians who go on tour. They are usually not part of large operations. They might take their instrument, fly on a budget flight, try to sell some of their merchandise, cross a few borders in the European Union—that is how they scrape a living. They are making no money now. Will he please consider the consequences of no deal, admit that this is not a frivolous issue but a matter of people’s livelihoods, and seriously engage with it rather than take this frivolous and superficial approach?
Minister reply
I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but I certainly would not take a frivolous approach towards the livelihoods of anyone, whether they are freelance musicians or anyone else who contributes to the health, prosperity and economy of this country.
John Redwood
Con
Wokingham
Question
Has my right hon. Friend seen how much popular and excellent quality fresh food there is in our supermarkets with the Union flag on the packaging? Will he confirm that if the EU insists on high tariffs on food trade, where it sells us massively more than we sell it, that would be a huge opportunity for our farmers to grow and rear more for the domestic market and get back the huge amounts of market share stolen from them under the common agricultural policy?
Minister reply
My right hon. Friend makes three very important points. The first thing is that UK producers are doing a fantastic job in increasing production in a sustainable way.
Christine Jardine
Lib Dem
Edinburgh West
Question
The Minister has acknowledged the issue of the free flow of medicines into this country. Will he respond to the urgent appeal today from the pharmaceuticals industry to find a deal, and will he accept the approaches from the European Union and do everything in his power to ensure that my constituents, like those across the country who need medicines such as insulin, will have the deal that ensures that they can rely upon it?
Minister reply
Absolutely.
Andrew Mitchell
Con
Sutton Coldfield
Question
My right hon. Friend knows from our time in Cabinet together that I have nothing but the greatest possible respect and admiration for his negotiating skills and abilities. Given that we are advised that fish and state aids are the main stumbling blocks to a deal, will he draw to the attention of Monsieur Macron, the President of France, the fact that if there is no deal on fishing, there will not be any French boats fishing in British waters, and that the size of the British fishing industry is approximately 1.7% of the size of the British car and automotive industry? Finally, will my right hon. Friend remember that one of the reasons that Mrs Thatcher imposed a three-line Whip in support of the European single market Act was to stop false competition as a result of the unfair use of state aids?
Minister reply
I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for the three important points he makes. First, I am sure that the French President and others are increasingly aware of the point he makes about the consequence of no deal. Secondly, the automotive sector is vital not just to the economy of the west midlands but to the whole UK, and we need to make sure that we invest in it for the future. And his third point is right: we need to have our own state aid regime, not the European one, but we also need to make sure that it is consistent with our market principles.
Nick Smith
Lab
Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney
Question
The Road Haulage Association is afraid that trade will grind to a halt if there are insufficient customs agents to help goods to cross the border in January. Some 50,000 customs agents are needed. On paper, the Government have allocated £84 million to the task of training the necessary people. I know the Minister has good attention to detail, so will he tell me how many customs agents have been trained from the allocated money?
Minister reply
It is a matter for the market.
Question
What preparations are being made by the Royal Navy to provide requisite support in a potential no-deal situation to our fishery protection vessels to prevent what would then be the illegal plunder of our seas by an armada of French and Spanish trawlers?
Minister reply
We have a series of assets to make sure that we can safeguard our waters, such as the offshore patrol vessels—the River class fishery protection vessels that are at the disposal of the Royal Navy—and other assets, including aircraft and drones. Of course, the joint maritime security centre in Portsmouth provides us with maritime domain awareness so that we can safeguard our waters.
Claire Hanna
SDLP
Belfast South and Mid Down
Question
We have 73 days to go here and businesses, deep in the middle of a pandemic, are trying their best to prepare, but there are many unanswered questions that add up to costs that Northern Ireland cannot afford. Firms and families here desperately want a deal, but we are hearing only about a blame game, brinkmanship, deflection and jingoism. People in Northern Ireland are more anxious than they have been in decades, with absolutely no sense that the Government understand that, given the misrepresentation of the agreement even in the last hour. I ask the Minister whether there is any upper limit to the damage that he thinks Northern Ireland should have to sustain for a Brexit that it has rejected at every possible opportunity.
Minister reply
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her points. In my statement, I made the point—I hope that she will forgive me for making it again—that we made significant progress today in the Joint Committee, thanks to the constructive approach taken by Vice-President Maroš Šefčovič. We are lucky that he and his team are so committed to making sure that the protocol works. I remind her that the protocol is there to give effect to the Belfast agreement, which is about agreement across communities, rather than a culture of grievance.
Question
My right hon. Friend may not have known it before December 2019, but Carshalton and Wallington residents voted to leave the European Union and are keen to see us get on and return to being an independent, free-trading global nation. Although we hope that the EU will return constructively to the table, will he confirm that, irrespective of whether a deal is struck, we will continue to go out into the world to seek free trade agreements, such as the one we recently secured with Japan?
Minister reply
Absolutely. A cloud lifted from Carshalton and Wallington in December last year, and we were able to see at last that the people of that constituency who voted for Brexit had a representative who believed in them.
Question
The Government say that they just want the terms that Canada enjoys with the European Union. Last year, exports to the European Union accounted for more than 60% of Welsh trade; Holyhead alone accounts for more than 400,000 freight movements each year across the Irish sea. Wales’s relationship with the European Union is nothing like that of Canada. Do those facts not demonstrate that, for Wales, the Minister’s preferred Canada-style agreement is just not good enough?
Minister reply
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but I think that Government and Opposition Front Benchers recognise that a Canada-style agreement is entirely consistent with how people voted in the referendum, including the people of Wales, who did vote to leave. It provides us with an opportunity to trade freely with the European Union but to chart our own destiny.
Question
I share my right hon. Friend’s disappointment in the EU’s continued intransigence. It is right that we do everything we can to prepare for all outcomes on 31 December, but it remains the case that it is in the best interests of both the UK and the EU to reach a long-term trade deal. Can he confirm that if the EU does shift its position and return to the negotiating table, the Government stand ready to talk and that we are prepared to consider individual deals or agreements on specific areas such as haulage and security?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I was not party to the telephone call that took place earlier between Michel Barnier and Lord Frost, but if it does presage a change of approach on the part of the EU and a proper intensification, no one would welcome that more than I do. It would mean that we could make progress, but obviously the proof of the pudding remains. On my hon. Friend’s second point, if we leave on Australian-style terms, we will be negotiating and discussing with our friends and neighbours to ensure that we have effective interim arrangements, particularly in areas such as freight transport.
Sammy Wilson
DUP
East Antrim
Question
I am pleased that, at least on the face of it, the Government appear to be standing up to the bullying tactics by Brussels and have indicated that we will not leave on the basis of an agreement that compromises our sovereignty or our independence. On the Joint Committee, the right hon. Gentleman mentioned two things. First, he said that the Government had outlined what steps they had taken to deal with the new agrifood arrangements. Secondly, he said that the Government now understand the EU’s position on monitoring those arrangements. Will he tell us whether the EU has agreed that the goods at risk will not include those goods that stay in Northern Ireland and that those goods will therefore not be taxed or subject to controls? Secondly, has the EU demanded that the implementation of that monitoring will require EU officials to be present in Northern Ireland?
Minister reply
On the first point, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, but I think that the EU has a very good understanding of exactly the points we make. On the second point, we want to have a pragmatic approach whereby the UK is responsible for the administration of these controls, but we want to provide the EU with reassurance wherever possible.
Neil O'Brien
Con
Harborough, Oadby and Wigston
Question
I voted to leave in the referendum, and I strongly agree with my right hon. Friend that we have to have the right deal, but does he agree, given the economic challenges and the common security threats that we are facing from Russia, China and the middle east, that a deal is still the best outcome for both the UK and EU?
Minister reply
Absolutely. The broader point that my hon. Friend makes about the need for solidarity among democracies at a time of increasing insecurity across the globe is an important one. We cannot agree to a deal at any price—we have been very clear about that—but the broader context that he provides is very helpful.
Question
My very first question in this place was to ask the then Prime Minister whether she would consider separately negotiating access to Erasmus and Horizon, which did not need to be part of the wider agreement, because of the risk of a deal falling down. Now that the deal has fallen down and all predictions about this incompetent Government have come true, will the Government consider a separate track to negotiate Erasmus and Horizon entry—which they can do and which the European Union was willing to do—so that our students and universities can have security on this issue?
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and we would like to continue participation in both those programmes, but obviously that depends to a significant extent on conversations that are still going on.
Harriett Baldwin
Con
West Worcestershire
Question
Can my right hon. Friend elaborate a bit more on his point about state aid? Is there state aid that we wish to give to UK companies that we were not able to do under the EU regime, or is the dispute more about the retaliation mechanism, as he put it in his statement?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that this is significantly about the retaliation procedures, but it is also about the mode of governance by which we would report and notify the state aids that we might wish to issue.
Tan Dhesi
Lab
Slough
Question
The Prime Minister promised an 'oven-ready' deal, and instead the Government is breaking international law. Will he apologise to the British people for false promises?
Minister reply
No apology is required as there has been a welcome indication of movement from the EU since the Prime Minister's statement.
Richard Fuller
Con
North Bedfordshire
Question
Will he assure us that no deal will be accepted just because it is offered, and that plans are being made for retaliatory actions if a free trade agreement with the EU is not secured?
Minister reply
We need to remain firm in our negotiations and ready for any eventuality. If we go to Australian terms, we will use the freedoms that come with them.
Neil Coyle
Lab
Bermondsey and Old Southwark
Question
UK exports heavily depend on the EU; why are businesses in Southwark losing patience due to his inability to secure a deal?
Minister reply
The Prime Minister's approach of embracing free trade is the best way to ensure export opportunities, not just with Europe but across the world.
Question
How does he view European defence and security in relation to NATO, especially considering the threats are no longer recognised by state borders or membership of international institutions?
Minister reply
NATO is the keystone of our defence architecture. We will reinforce strong bilateral and multilateral ties with European allies.
Question
Will he give businesses and households in Northern Ireland a firm guarantee that no tariffs will be levied down the Irish Sea interface?
Minister reply
Yes, a tariff-free environment is guaranteed for goods crossing between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Mike Wood
Con
Kingswinford and South Staffordshire
Question
What support is available for businesses to understand the changes to customs and tax rules so they can prepare for becoming an independent trading nation?
Minister reply
Intensifying communications campaigns are in place, with information on gov.uk and meetings scheduled with business representative organisations.
Stella Creasy
Lab Co-op
Walthamstow
Question
Why was he pessimistic about an Australian-style deal despite his own analysis in 2018 suggesting such a deal would cost 8% of GDP?
Minister reply
Recent events show movement from the EU; we will find out more in the days ahead. The referenced analysis is not mine.
Question
What specific advance has there been regarding data adequacy and sharing for security cooperation, financial services access, and related databases?
Minister reply
We need to secure data adequacy; it is an autonomous process but we believe the EU should grant us adequacy based on provided information.
Question
Does he acknowledge his Government's responsibility for any collapse in negotiations given their obligations to respect international law?
Minister reply
Recent events underline that his point is misconceived; the EU has not walked away despite the Government’s stance.
Matt Vickers
Con
Stockton West
Question
Will the UK continue to pursue trade opportunities with the world's biggest and fastest-growing economies, such as Japan, even without an EU deal?
Minister reply
Yes, we will continue pursuing free trade agreements with other major economies, including those beneficial for exporters in Stockton South.
Wera Hobhouse
Lib Dem
Bath
Question
What certainty can he offer business at this late stage regarding the January 2021 deadline?
Minister reply
Certainty that we will leave the customs union and single market, allowing us to become an independent free trading nation.
Cheryl Gillan
Constitutional Unionist
Chesham and Amersham
Question
If what the minister has told the House today is accurate—that the EU has realised at the eleventh hour that it is in its best interests to reach an accommodation with the United Kingdom and it can no longer dictate to this country—can he tell me what will happen with those businesses that have not prepared for the end of the transition period? The permanent secretary of his Department told the Public Accounts Committee last week that 36% of our small businesses had not made preparations. Has that figure now been reduced? What further communications are planned to ensure that all businesses are ready for the end of the year, whether we get a deal or not?
Minister reply
I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend: we do very much want a deal. We hope that developments this afternoon are moving us in the right direction. She is also absolutely on the button when she says that, with or without a free trade agreement, businesses need to prepare. The number that are getting prepared is increasing all the time, and it is my Department’s responsibility, along with HMRC, to make sure they have the information they require, whatever happens. Outside the single market and the customs union, there will be new procedures. I look forward to working with her and others on the Public Accounts Committee to ensure that we communicate the detail required through our new intensified campaign.
Shadow Comment
Theresa May
Shadow Comment
The shadow minister questioned the Government's stance regarding no-deal scenarios, specifically concerning security arrangements and access to databases such as PNR for law enforcement agencies. She highlighted the absence of mention on security in Gove’s statement and asked if police would lose necessary database access under a 'no deal' scenario.
▸
Assessment & feedback
Summary accuracy
About House of Commons Debates
House of Commons debates take place in the main chamber of the House of Commons. These debates cover a wide range of topics including government policy, legislation, and current affairs. MPs from all parties can participate, question ministers, and hold the government accountable for its decisions.