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Armed Forces Bill - Second Reading (entire bill)
08 February 2021
Lead MP
Johnny Mercer
Debate Type
Bill Debate
Tags
Justice & CourtsDefenceNorthern Ireland
Other Contributors: 70
At a Glance
Johnny Mercer raised concerns about armed forces bill - second reading (entire bill) in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Lead Contributor
Opened the debate
The Armed Forces Bill is essential for maintaining the lawful operation of the military and ensuring justice within the service. It includes provisions for renewing the Armed Forces Act 2006, enhancing the service justice system, and enshrining the armed forces covenant in law to ensure fair treatment of veterans and their families. The bill aims to deliver a stable and secure life for those who serve by addressing housing, education, and healthcare challenges.
Chingford and Woodford Green
Requests urgent legislation to protect Northern Ireland veterans from vexatious allegations, expressing frustration at delays in delivering on the Prime Minister's promise.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Supports the minister’s commitment to veterans but calls for legislation addressing vexatious investigations, not just prosecutions, for Northern Ireland cases.
Mark Francois
Con
Rayleigh and Wickford
Urges immediate delivery of promised legislation protecting veterans from repeated reinvestigations in Northern Ireland, expressing exasperation with delays.
Tobias Ellwood
Con
Bournemouth East
Thanks Justice Lyons for his work on the service justice review and asks the Defence Secretary to clarify why certain types of offences cannot be moved to civilian courts.
Barnsley South
Welcomes the covenant but pushes for measurable national standards to eliminate postcode lottery issues affecting military families' access to services.
Kevan Jones
Lab
North Durham
Asks if there will be an armed forces champion in every local authority, ensuring clear accountability and support for service personnel and families.
John Healey
Lab
Rawmarsh and Conisbrough
Supports the Armed Forces Bill, which renews legal basis for armed forces and military law. Acknowledges the cross-party support but criticises clause 8 as a missed opportunity to fully enforce the covenant. Emphasises the need for broader coverage, enforcement mechanisms, and statutory guidance beyond local councils and agencies. Highlights the narrow scope of the bill concerning health, housing, and education. Critiques the lack of accountability towards national governments and delivery agencies.
Kevan Jones
Lab
Durham
Intervenes to highlight that the armed forces covenant's roots are in 2008 under Labour, and the proposal in the Bill lacks teeth compared to the 2009 Green Paper. Points out that the current version is weaker than previous proposals.
James Sunderland
Con
Bracknell
Intervenes stating that clauses concerning service justice and terms of service were requested by armed forces, and suggests a less prescriptive approach for deliverability across all regions. Acknowledges the complexity but commends the bill.
Johnny Mercer
Con
Bristol West
Supported the Bill and emphasised that they have gone beyond what was advised by the Lyons review, aiming for more integrity and resilience in the system. Rejected criticism that his recommendation did not exist.
Tobias Ellwood
Con
Bournemouth East
Paid tribute to the armed forces, supported the Bill's intention of the armed forces covenant. Raised concerns about enforcement mechanisms and asked for an obligation to have an armed forces champion in local authorities. Emphasised the need for further improvements on service justice.
Carol Monaghan
SNP
Glasgow North West
Supported the Bill but expressed dissatisfaction over its lack of scope and enforcement mechanisms. Criticised the current commitment to the armed forces covenant as falling short. Highlighted issues such as housing, visas for Commonwealth personnel, pension issues, and proposed a federation model similar to other countries to give voice to military personnel.
Siobhan Baillie
Con
Stroud
Supports the Bill, citing her family's military background and highlighting the importance of the Armed Forces Covenant. Argues for oversight to ensure effective implementation in housing, education, and healthcare. Emphasises the need for a budget behind the role of an armed forces champion at local authorities. Praises the work on 'Living in our Shoes' report and highlights issues faced by reservists.
Mary Glindon
Lab
Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend
Welcomes the opportunity to speak, citing her family's connection to the armed forces. Highlights the work of local charities supporting veterans in North Tyneside. Emphasises the importance of council policies aligned with the Armed Forces Covenant and praises specific initiatives such as funding an armed forces officer and guaranteeing interviews for service personnel. Criticises the lack of extra funding from Government despite councils fulfilling their responsibilities.
Mark Francois
Con
Rayleigh and Wickford
Expresses support for the Bill, particularly Clause 8 which strengthens the legislative basis of the Armed Forces Covenant. Critiques the lack of progress on legislation protecting Northern Ireland veterans from vexatious investigations. Calls for immediate action to honour commitments made by previous leadership.
Martin Docherty
SNP
West Dunbartonshire
Expresses concern about the missed opportunity in the Bill to redefine civil-military relations and address politicisation of armed forces. Criticises the lack of clarity regarding the role of military forces during public health emergencies, such as during the pandemic. Highlights issues with access to military justice for working-class personnel due to an opaque system.
Ian Levy
Con
Folkestone and Hythe
Welcomes the Bill, praising it as a step towards ensuring fair treatment of armed forces personnel, veterans, and their families. Emphasises the importance of supporting mental health among military members with the launch of HeadFIT. Highlights increased number of GP practices accredited as veteran-friendly.
Dan Jarvis
Lab
Barnsley North
Supports amendments to address issues faced by Commonwealth service personnel in gaining visas and regularising their immigration status. Argues that current rules are unfair, with veterans facing bills of up to £10,000 for indefinite leave to remain after serving four years. Supports government's intention to launch a consultation but calls for immediate action to help affected veterans.
Sarah Atherton
Con
Wrexham
Sarah Atherton, a veteran and advocate for armed forces, supports the Bill as it enshrines in law the principles of the armed forces covenant. She highlights the progress made by the Government to improve veterans' support but notes that some councils are not proactive enough. She suggests appointing an armed forces champion to ensure accountability and local responsiveness. She mentions over 1,800 charities serving personnel, veterans and families across the UK and raises concerns about timely service delivery in Wales for pain management. Atherton also discusses women's issues in the military and supports the Bill's integration of recommendations from the service justice system review.
Emma Lewell
Lab
South Shields
Emma Lewell criticises clause 8, arguing that it devolves responsibilities to local authorities without financial support and does not guarantee real change. She highlights the need for charities and communities to fill gaps left by the state. Lewell points out failures such as disabled veterans being let down by the Department for Work and Pensions. She also mentions mental health issues faced by forces and veterans, citing the case of nuclear veteran John Taylor who has campaigned for recognition and compensation due to atomic tests in Maralinga.
Stuart Anderson
Con
South Shropshire
He argues for the amendment, sharing his personal experience of being shot during training and subsequent mental health issues. He highlights how lack of support led to substance abuse and suicide attempts, underscoring the need for better mental health services and care for veterans.
[INTERVENTION] Acknowledges Stuart Anderson's story and questions whether the armed forces covenant would have made a difference in his early life, highlighting the need for timely support.
[INTERVENTION] Emphasises that care must extend beyond service and continue for veterans as long as necessary, echoing the need for sustained support.
Dan Carden
Lab
Liverpool Walton
Argues in favour of enhancing mental health services for armed forces personnel and veterans, citing high rates of addiction and substance misuse. He highlights the need to change cultural attitudes and improve early intervention, referencing a specific treatment centre in his constituency.
Andrew Murrison
Con
South West Wiltshire
Supports the clause, emphasising its alignment with society's responsibilities towards military personnel. Questions the legal standing of new obligations and seeks clarity on who arbitrates over compliance by local bodies.
Expresses gratitude for service personnel during the pandemic and supports the Bill as an opportunity to improve support for armed forces, veterans, and their families. Criticises underfunding and lack of binding national standards.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Supports the clause, highlighting its importance in ensuring that service personnel are not disadvantaged due to their military service. Emphasises the need for continued legal protection against prosecutions and vexatious reinvestigations.
Chris Matheson
Lab
Cardiff South and Penarth
Chris Matheson supports the Bill, emphasising its importance for veteran's families. He highlighted issues such as pension disparities faced by spouses of veterans due to career disruptions caused by military duties. Additionally, he called on the Government to abandon plans to close Chester’s Dale barracks, advocating for better housing and support for servicemen and their families.
Bob Stewart
Con
Beckenham
Bob Stewart fully supports clauses 4 to 6 of the Bill which provide rectification powers, citing a personal example involving Major Milos Stankovic. He argued that these provisions would help address grievances and injustices faced by military personnel.
Sarah Jones
Lab
Croydon West
Sarah Jones welcomes the Bill but highlights its limitations. She emphasises the importance of local community support for armed forces and veterans, especially through Councillor Toni Letts's champion role in Croydon. However, she argues that setting measurable national standards is essential to avoid a postcode lottery in implementing the covenant.
Tan Dhesi
Lab
Slough
Supports the Bill for its alignment with the armed forces covenant. Emphasises the need for Government commitment to ensure service personnel, veterans and their families are not disadvantaged in civilian life. Expresses disappointment that the Bill does not address wider issues such as housing, healthcare, and education support.
Alex Sobel
Lab Co-op
Leeds Central and Headingley
Welcomes the opportunity to give legal substance to the armed forces covenant but raises concerns over the vagueness of 'due regard'. Highlights issues with service family accommodation, particularly concerning Amey’s poor maintenance and service delivery. Shares testimonies from military families highlighting their dissatisfaction and the need for improved housing standards.
Heather Wheeler
Con
South Derbyshire
Supports clauses 8 and 9, emphasising the importance of strengthening the armed forces covenant and enhancing the flexibility of commitments for reserve forces. Cites personal experiences and local initiatives to support serving personnel and their families. Highlights the need for proactive measures across different government authorities to ensure comprehensive support for veterans.
Gavin Robinson
DUP
Belfast East
Commends the Government's commitment to implement a statutory duty on public bodies throughout the UK regarding the armed forces covenant. Stresses the importance of addressing specific challenges faced by veterans in Northern Ireland, including issues related to health, education, and housing. Questions the Minister about why certain aspects like pensions and employment are not included in the Bill.
Fay Jones
Con
Brecon and Radnorshire
Supports the Armed Forces Bill, highlighting its importance for veterans' support. Advocates for a veterans commissioner in Wales to ensure comprehensive welfare services for former military personnel. Emphasises the need to recognise nuclear test veterans and their contributions to national security.
Supports the Armed Forces Bill, which fulfills legal responsibilities, honours recommendations of the Lyons review, delivers on manifesto commitments, preserves the service justice system, and provides framework for excellent work conducted by councils. Supports clauses 4 to 7, as they provide means for rectifying errors in courts martial; clause 8, which mandates provisions for housing, health, and education; clause 9, providing increased flexibility for reserve forces; clause 10 and 11, focusing on speeding up the complaints process but urging caution regarding senior officer workload; clauses 13 to 17, giving enhanced powers to commanding officers and courts martial.
Critiques the Bill for not making discrimination against servicemen and women illegal; mentions important omissions like Northern Ireland veterans' rights, lack of provisions regarding reinvestigations, calls for better pay implementation, and urges improvements on housing and other issues. Expresses doubts about the Minister’s willingness to improve the Bill.
Supports the Armed Forces Bill for its positive impact on armed forces personnel and their families, appreciates work done by councils with armed forces champions; suggests making monitoring of covenant implementation statutory to ensure accountability. Urges quick handling of complaints to avoid mental health issues.
Jamie Stone
Lib Dem
Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross
Speaks in support of extending the armed forces covenant to local government. He mentions his personal connection with the military through family members serving as well as the armed forces parliamentary scheme. He highlights the importance of ensuring service personnel are not disadvantaged compared to other citizens and cites examples from his constituency, including joint champions for the armed forces. Stone suggests exploring a different system for 16-17-year-olds regarding education and enlistment age.
Welcomes the Bill's measures, particularly those related to the service justice system and the establishment of an independent Service Police Complaints Commissioner. Emphasises his support for enshrining the armed forces covenant in law. Expresses appreciation for local authority initiatives supporting the armed forces covenant since 2011. Suggests a need for similar levers across devolved Administrations, proposing the role of a veterans commissioner.
Pontypridd
Welcomes the Bill's provisions for flexible working for Army reservists and acknowledges the vital role of armed forces in fighting coronavirus. Criticises the Government for not expanding jurisdiction to civilian courts regarding serious offences. Questions why the clause does not cover wider areas beyond housing, healthcare, and education. Expresses concerns about outsourcing responsibility without providing necessary funding.
Mike Hill
Con
Hartlepool
Welcomes the Government's reaffirmation of their commitment to the armed forces covenant and supports the establishment of an independent complaints commissioner for the service police. He cites a case involving his constituent, Richard Lee, whose daughter went missing while he was in the military and highlights gaps in the service justice system as evidenced by Shaun Lyons' review. Emphasises that serious crimes should be handled in civilian courts to reflect parity and fairness.
Virginia Crosbie
Con
Ynys Môn
Supports enshrining the armed forces covenant in law, highlighting its importance for equal treatment of serving personnel and veterans. Mentions local contributions from the military during the pandemic and the growing number of businesses supporting the covenant. Expresses gratitude to all service members and their families.
Carolyn Harris
Lab
Neath and Swansea East
Calls for better support for veterans' mental health, particularly regarding gambling addiction. Criticises the Bill's limited scope on social care, pensions, compensation, employment, benefits, and mental health issues. Emphasises the need for improved regulation of the gambling industry to protect vulnerable individuals, especially service members and veterans.
James Wild
Con
North West Norfolk
Supports the new duty on public bodies but calls for broadening the scope in future. Advocates including Government Departments within this legal framework to ensure proper adherence and enforcement of the armed forces covenant.
Lyn Brown
N/A
Shares a personal story about Maurillia Simpson, highlighting how the MOD failed her despite the covenant being in place. Argues that duties for health, education, housing and local government could help ensure more support but raises concerns over underfunding and outsourcing of responsibility from the MOD to councils.
Emma Hardy
Lab
Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice
Describes Hull City Council's efforts in embedding much of the covenant into its systems, highlighting specific measures taken by the council to ensure awareness among staff and accountability. Calls for measurable national standards for the covenant, equality of treatment for all British armed forces veterans, and civilian courts jurisdiction over serious crimes.
Stephen Doughty
Lab Co-op
Cardiff South and Penarth
I support clause 18 as it addresses historical injustices against LGBT service personnel. The amendment is necessary to rectify past wrongs, such as the discharge of individuals due to their sexual orientation or gender identity. It aims to provide redress and recognition for these veterans who faced discrimination and persecution while serving our country.
I support the Armed Forces Bill, which includes clause 18. The bill creates a legal obligation for public bodies to have due regard for the armed forces covenant, ensuring that service personnel and veterans receive appropriate consideration in areas such as housing, healthcare, and education. This is crucial given the unique needs of those who serve or have served our country.
Navendu Mishra
Lab
Stockport
Paid tribute to Captain Sir Tom Moore and highlighted the importance of supporting veterans through housing, healthcare, and education. Criticised the lack of Government support for military personnel and veterans, citing a National Audit Office report on substandard accommodation in MOD barracks. Emphasised the need for fair financial settlement for local authorities to deliver on the armed forces covenant.
Commended Minister Johnny Mercer for his work on supporting veterans and military personnel, particularly in mental health issues. Highlighted Britannia Royal Naval College in his constituency as an example of future support for military careers and transition into civilian life. Stressed the importance of delivering on promises to armed forces and improving access to mental health care through initiatives like HeadFIT.
Kate Osborne
Lab
Jarrow and Gateshead East
Supported the aims of the Bill but criticised its narrow scope, particularly in addressing criminal and civil justice for veterans. Provided an example of a constituent's unresolved service complaints and highlighted issues around Commonwealth veterans' immigration rules.
Rob Butler
Con
Aylesbury
Welcomed the Bill and its incorporation of armed forces covenant into law, focusing on changes to service justice system. Supported allowing more junior ranks in court martial boards and permitting dissenting voice majority decisions. Concerned about rejection of Judge Lyons’s recommendation for murder, manslaughter, and rape cases to be handled by civilian courts.
Matt Western
Lab
Warwick and Leamington
Criticised the Bill's narrow focus on housing, veterans' mental health, and social care. Highlighted substandard accommodation for personnel, citing National Audit Office report and Royal British Legion statistics. Emphasised need for better mental health services for veterans.
Welcomed legislation to enshrine military covenant in law, praising work done by Office for Veterans’ Affairs. Advocated for better integration of support services and encouraged local authorities to act as central points of contact.
Taiwo Owatemi
Lab
Coventry North West
Welcomes the Bill as a good start but criticises it for not providing concrete action. Argues that the current language is too ambiguous and does not provide local authorities with necessary funding to deliver on the covenant.
Peter Gibson
Con
Darlington
Praises the Bill for delivering on manifesto commitments. Shares personal anecdotes highlighting veterans' struggles in accessing services post-discharge and emphasises that enshrining the covenant ensures fair treatment.
Nigel Evans
SNP
Central Fife
Noted as the Deputy Speaker managing debate time limits. No specific position or contribution on the amendment/clause.
Andrew Bowie
Con
West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine
Compliments armed forces for their contributions during the pandemic and emphasises the Bill's importance in enshrining fairness for service personnel, veterans and their families.
Jo Gideon
Con
Stoke-on-Trent North
Supports the armed forces covenant element of the bill, highlighting her personal connection to veterans and recognition of mental health challenges faced by those who have served. Emphasises the importance of data collection on veterans for proper support provision in local authorities like Stoke-on-Trent City Council.
Imran Ahmad Khan
Con
Wakefield
Acknowledges the role of UK servicemen and women, emphasising the legal basis for armed forces to operate as a disciplined body. Supports reforms in the Bill that strengthen the armed forces covenant and protect veterans' rights in accessing public services.
Danny Kruger
Reform
East Wiltshire
Gratefully acknowledges the role of armed forces, particularly those stationed in his constituency. Supports the Bill for its enshrining of the armed forces covenant into local operations and recognition of efforts by local authorities such as Wiltshire Council to support military integration.
James Daly
Lab
Bury North
Welcomes clause 8 which creates a duty on principles that specified persons or bodies must have regard to when exercising certain housing, education or healthcare provision for veterans. Expresses concern over the action that can be taken at a local level if local councils and service providers do not live up to these duties and principles. Advocates for joint partnership working between veterans associations, volunteers, local councils, and clinical commissioning groups. Mentions successful examples in Wigan Borough Armed Forces Community HQ hub and Healthier Heroes CIC in Burnley which provide a wide range of support services for veterans.
Marco Longhi
Con
Dudley North
Supports the enshrining of the armed forces covenant into law, emphasising the need to treat all armed forces personnel and their families fairly. Criticises the lack of understanding of the unique obligations and sacrifices made by service personnel and their families. Advocates for over-arching and proactive support rather than waiting for veterans to ask for help themselves. Supports the Bill as it increases awareness among public bodies of the unique nature of military service, improving services for members of the armed forces community.
Chris Loder
Con
West Dorset
Welcomes the Bill and commends the Secretary of State and Minister for their hard work in making it happen. Stresses that this is a unifying effort across the House to support armed forces personnel. Notes that one in seven people in Dorset has a connection to the armed forces, highlighting the importance of progress with the armed forces covenant to constituents in West Dorset. Emphasises the need for actions rather than words and condemns acts such as Extinction Rebellion's protest on Armistice Day at the Cenotaph.
Richard Holden
Con
Basildon and Billericay
Supports clause 8 for enshrining the armed forces covenant in law. Highlights the importance of regional connections to the armed forces, mentioning the loss of the DLI museum. Emphasises the professionalism and dedication of those serving in the armed forces.
Welcomes the Bill for its provisions to support veterans and reserve personnel, including posthumous pardons. Highlights the importance of housing, health, and education in the armed forces covenant.
Supports clause 8 for the armed forces covenant to ensure that members of the armed forces and their families are not disadvantaged in healthcare, education, and housing. Acknowledges the sacrifices made by service personnel and their families.
Stephen Morgan
Lab
Portsmouth South
Critiques the Bill's lack of concrete measures to tackle housing issues, mental health waiting times, and joblessness among veterans. Calls for national standards on which central government is accountable instead of vague principles.
Ben Wallace
Con
Nottingham North
Wallace detailed his personal experiences as a veteran, emphasising the positive aspects of military service while acknowledging challenges. He highlighted improvements in mental health support for veterans and the importance of independent investigations. The minister also addressed concerns about Northern Ireland veterans and the unique nature of military justice.
Government Response
Responded to interventions by addressing concerns over Northern Ireland veterans' protection from vexatious allegations, stressing the complexity of the issue and commitment to deliver on promises despite difficulties.
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