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Legacy of Northern Ireland’s Past
14 July 2021
Lead MP
Brandon Lewis
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
Crime & Law EnforcementNorthern Ireland
Other Contributors: 23
At a Glance
Brandon Lewis raised concerns about legacy of northern ireland’s past in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The Minister, Brandon Lewis, addressed the House on the unresolved legacy of Northern Ireland’s past, including the troubles that claimed over 3,500 lives and left up to 40,000 people injured. He acknowledged that current criminal investigations are unlikely to deliver successful outcomes but continue to divide communities. Thus, he proposed a series of measures in a paper to address legacy issues properly. Key proposals include establishing an independent body for information recovery about deaths and injuries related to the troubles, initiating a major oral history programme consistent with previous agreements, and implementing a statute of limitations on all incidents. The Government committed to introducing legislation by the end of autumn while engaging relevant stakeholders.
Nusrat Ghani
Con
Weaver Vale
Question
Ms Ghani asked the Minister how victims’ families will be reassured of their safety after today’s announcement. She expressed concerns over victims feeling abandoned and emphasised that reconciliation must be achieved through justice, not a blanket amnesty.
Minister reply
The Minister acknowledged Ms Ghani's concern about ensuring victim families are safe under these proposals. He emphasised the Government’s commitment to providing information recovery and addressing the need for acknowledgment, accountability, and restorative means, stressing that the proposed measures aim to reconcile society with its past in a way that looks forward together.
Alistair Carmichael
Lib Dem
Orkney and Shetland
Question
Mr Carmichael questioned whether the Government's proposals comply with international law and asked if it was worth pursuing an amnesty for all. He also inquired about the impact on victims' families who have been waiting for justice.
Minister reply
The Minister responded by stating that the Government is committed to ensuring their proposals are compliant with international human rights obligations, while acknowledging the complexity of the issue and the need for a balanced approach. He emphasised the importance of moving forward in a way that respects victims' needs and provides them with some sense of justice.
Stephen Pound
Lab
Ealing North
Question
Mr Pound challenged the Minister on whether the proposed statute of limitations would apply equally to all incidents, including those involving state forces. He questioned if this could undermine trust in the security services.
Minister reply
The Minister clarified that the statute of limitations will indeed apply equally across the board, acknowledging the need for a balanced approach that respects international obligations and the rule of law while also seeking reconciliation. He emphasised the importance of addressing victims’ needs comprehensively.
Louise Haigh
Lab
Sheffield Heeley
Question
Thanked the Secretary of State but criticised the Government's approach to brief newspapers rather than this House. Emphasised the deep pain experienced by victims, and questioned whether the proposals are more about narrow party support than delivering reconciliation. Criticised the amnesty proposed as fundamentally offensive and illegal under article 2.
Minister reply
Acknowledged engagement with victim groups, emphasising the commitment to truth but highlighting the limitations of criminal investigations as seen in Operation Kenova's lack of prosecutions despite its model for information retrieval. Suggested that moral equivalence should not apply between those who upheld law versus those who sought to destroy it.
Question
Asked if young people today and future generations will be able to enjoy a brighter future in Northern Ireland only through reconciliation and addressing the legacy of the past.
Minister reply
Agreed that achieving reconciliation is essential for moving forward, acknowledging that 23 years after the Good Friday agreement, less than 7% of children in Northern Ireland receive integrated education. He stressed the need to end intergenerational trauma and ensure society can look towards a better future.
Question
Acknowledged the compromises made for peace but expressed concern over the lack of formal consultation on the proposals, especially regarding the statute of limitations. Requested engagement with victims' groups and independent prosecutors to ensure public interest prosecutions can proceed.
Minister reply
Emphasised the need for better approaches than the current system that fails everyone, mentioning ongoing engagement including meetings last week with victim groups and plans for continued consultations with political parties and Irish Government.
Simon Hoare
Con
North Dorset
Question
My right hon. Friend should be commended for trying once again to resolve legacy issues from the troubles in Northern Ireland, but can we resolve not to use language that suggests closure and finality? Also, how will Operation Kenova’s model of cross-community support fit into future plans for truth and reconciliation?
Minister reply
The minister acknowledges the importance of sensitivity and emphasises the ongoing work with victims and veterans. He highlights Operation Kenova as a positive example but notes its lack of successful prosecutions in recent years. The minister reiterates his commitment to justice, acknowledging the need for restorative approaches alongside truth recovery.
Question
On this day 39 years ago, two soldiers were murdered by the IRA; today we remember them and other victims of the troubles who have not received justice. While wanting reconciliation, the right hon. Member believes that sacrificing justice for victims is unacceptable. Victims must be at the centre of any proposals moving forward.
Minister reply
The minister agrees with the importance of involving victims in discussions about legacy issues. He mentions meetings with victim groups and stresses the need to balance restorative justice with accountability, truth recovery, and reconciliation.
Question
For many families, achieving criminal justice outcomes is unlikely, making a statute of limitations hard to accept. Can my right hon. Friend assure that all voices are heard in the process?
Minister reply
The minister assures that communities on all sides have been and will continue to be engaged, as evidenced by recent talks with civic society.
Colum Eastwood
SDLP
Foyle
Question
Will the Secretary of State explain why he wants to protect killers from prosecution for crimes like those committed against Patsy Gillespie?
Minister reply
The minister criticises the hon. Gentleman's approach as using emotive comments for political gain, but remains open to meeting victims to discuss experiences and how Northern Ireland can move forward positively.
Chingford and Woodford Green
Question
The Secretary of State is commended for the statement on legacy issues. Many served in Northern Ireland honourably, including my friend Robert Nairac whose body was never found after being captured by the IRA. The process of moving forward will require sacrifices but must not involve vexatious pursuit of soldiers who served.
Minister reply
The minister acknowledges the need to address cases like Robert Nairac's and highlights the importance of legislation, restorative justice for victims who served their country with honour, and the necessity of working with partners including the Irish Government.
Stephen Farry
Strangford
Con
Question
These proposals are an insult to all victims, veterans who served honourably, and the rule of law. They do not draw a line but rather cross it by contemplating an amnesty for IRA and loyalist terrorists. Can the Secretary of State give an assurance that he will not seek to impose these one-sided proposals over the heads of local parties in Northern Ireland and of victims’ groups?
Minister reply
The statute is intended as a way forward to find truth and accountability, addressing the failure of the current system to get information. The Government does not accept moral equivalence between those who upheld the law and served their country and terrorists. We will work with all parties in Northern Ireland to ensure we move forward positively.
Richard Drax
South Dorset
Con
Question
Does he agree that it is time for a long-awaited Bill, not further discussions? Former terrorists on both sides are unlikely to participate in a truth recovery process.
Minister reply
Legislation will be brought forward before the end of autumn. We need to engage with our partners, including the Irish Government and political parties in Northern Ireland, to find a different way forward as the current system is not working.
Alistair Carmichael
Orkney and Shetland
Lib Dem
Question
The Secretary of State's statement has united all five parties in Northern Ireland against him. They oppose the amnesty offer that provides legal equivalence but no moral equivalence.
Minister reply
The situation is complex, involving difficult decisions as per the Good Friday/Belfast agreement. The sentencing Act following this agreement legally dealt with the troubles differently than other crimes. We need to find a way forward that can get to the truth and help Northern Ireland move forward.
Mark Logan
Dover
Con
Question
Is today's statement part of a process seeking buy-in from both parties and people across the political spectrum in Northern Ireland, engendering hope for current and future generations?
Minister reply
Yes, this is but one part of an ongoing process. We need to engage intensively over weeks ahead to find a different way forward as the status quo has failed.
Tony Lloyd
Manchester Central
Lab
Question
How can he say that an amnesty will bring reconciliation and peace to families of victims in Northern Ireland, especially when it cannot be applied elsewhere?
Minister reply
The troubles represent a uniquely troubled time in our history. The focus is on finding truth for those who want it, understanding the past, and looking forward positively.
James Sunderland
Sunderland South
Con
Question
Is his emerging statute intended to unpick and end this unpalatable cycle of vexatious behaviour, thereby creating a strategic environment in Northern Ireland for truth, reconciliation, and dispute resolution?
Minister reply
The intention is as outlined by the MP: finding a way forward so families can get to the truth where wanted and society can move positively towards the future.
Jim Shannon
Strangford
DUP
Question
Does he understand why legacy issues leave a bitter taste in the mouth of many, especially regarding spending hundreds of millions on inquiries that rewrite history to make atrocities seem acceptable? There can be no equivalence between those who served and terrorists.
Minister reply
The Secretary of State understands the point made passionately by the hon. Member. The legal equivalence was created following the Belfast/Good Friday agreement, but there is absolutely no moral equivalence accepted between those who served and terrorists.
Mark Francois
Con
Rayleigh and Wickford
Question
After four years of promises, two election manifestos, endless assurances at the Dispatch Box and private guarantees to veterans' support groups, what do we have today? Just a consultation document. The Secretary of State has promised to introduce legislation by the end of autumn for First Reading before Christmas, but given it is likely to be controversial, this means the Bill may not pass until next summer. This delay prolongs uncertainty and suffering for Northern Ireland veterans who are often elderly or ill.
Minister reply
The Secretary of State acknowledged his right hon. Friend's point about the timing and accepted the criticism regarding the delayed introduction of legislation. He highlighted that engaging with the Irish Government, parties in Northern Ireland, victims’ groups, and wider civic society is crucial for moving forward responsibly.
Question
Are vexatious complaints only part of the story? If trials are proposed as outcomes from inquests or investigations like Kenova, will they now be redundant? Will individuals such as Rita O’Hare, John Downey and Owen Carron be released without trial? What is the true outcome for these cases?
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman was correct to highlight challenges but the Minister emphasised the importance of considering a holistic approach in collaboration with various stakeholders before finalising legislation.
Tan Dhesi
Lab
Slough
Question
Margaret Valente, at 30 years old, lost her husband abducted by the Provisional IRA and later her son-in-law murdered by the Ulster Volunteer Force. She still has no idea if thorough investigations were conducted into these murders. How can one accept proposals that effectively close the book on justice for such victims? Would Conservative Ministers suggest similar legislation if it affected their own families?
Minister reply
The Minister suggested that the hon. Member misunderstood the issue and advised him to carefully review the Command Paper, noting the importance of truth recovery mechanisms for dealing with past failures in investigation.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Question
Does my right hon. Friend accept that these proposals are practically identical to those by the Defence Committee's report from April 2017? Does he agree that it is up to the Government to decide what they will do and do it despite a lack of consensus among all parties? Can vexatious pursuit of soldiers be stopped without a statute of limitations, adhering to international law requirements for truth recovery mechanisms?
Minister reply
My right hon. Friend's expertise was acknowledged with respect to the Select Committee report. The Minister emphasised the importance of information recovery and reconciliation to move Northern Ireland forward while ensuring compliance with human rights laws.
Shadow Comment
Louise Haigh
Shadow Comment
The Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland criticised the Government's approach as it lacks trust and care towards victims, who are deeply sceptical about these proposals. She highlighted that the Government promised to legislate on the Stormont House agreement but instead proposed a departure from that promise, which undermines reconciliation efforts. The shadow also emphasised the importance of upholding the rule of law and conducting effective investigations as per international human rights obligations. She criticised the unilateral imposition by Westminster without support from Northern Ireland political parties and warned about the legal challenges ahead if the proposals are not compliant with article 2.
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