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Security of Ministers’ Offices and Communications
28 June 2021
Lead MP
Julia Lopez
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
NHSTaxation
Other Contributors: 36
At a Glance
Julia Lopez raised concerns about security of ministers’ offices and communications in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
Julia Lopez, Minister for Civil Society, addressed concerns about the security of ministerial offices and communications in response to a leak of footage from a Department of Health and Social Care security camera. She confirmed that an investigation supported by the Government Security Group is underway. The Minister also detailed government guidance on the use of official devices, email accounts, and communication applications for classified information, stating that Ministers are responsible for ensuring secure handling of sensitive data according to specific circumstances.
Question
Asked whether offices of Ministers or MPs have recording devices; who authorised them; who has access to the recordings; their purposes; retention periods; if the Wilson doctrine is breached; surveillance practices; and measures preventing illicit recordings or devices.
Minister reply
Julia Lopez assured that the government upholds the Wilson doctrine, stating it was a CCTV camera being investigated. She noted that offices are swept based on risk assessment, with UK NACE supporting security standards.
Angela Rayner
Lab
Ashton-under-Lyne
Question
Asked for further updates when more details about the investigation become available; questioned whether Ministers conduct business via departmental email addresses; raised concerns over private email usage and its implications on security, freedom of information, and evidence preservation for public inquiries.
Minister reply
Julia Lopez reiterated that government guidance recommends official devices and email accounts for classified communications. She noted the need to understand pandemic-related volume in correspondence and will look into procurement issues via personal emails.
Question
Asked about safeguards for whistleblowers who may inadvertently discover material of public interest.
Minister reply
Julia Lopez stated the distinction between leaked improperly sourced materials and legitimate concerns raised by whistleblowers, promising to look into the concern.
Stewart Hosie
SNP
Dundee East
Question
Was the former Health Secretary aware of a CCTV camera in his office? Is the Minister aware of similar cameras in any other ministerial offices? Who installs such systems and who monitors them? What is recorded by these systems?
Minister reply
Those concerns will be addressed through the Department of Health and Social Care investigation. The Cabinet Office sets standards, which Departments follow. The installation and monitoring of systems are part of ongoing investigations.
Jacob Young
Con
Crawley
Question
Will the Minister assure that no microphones are hidden in ministerial offices? Will regular checks be conducted for such devices?
Minister reply
Sweeps are conducted across Departments. Permanent secretaries of Departments are accountable, but the Cabinet Office sets guidelines and liaises with them on adherence.
Jamie Stone
Lib Dem
Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross
Question
How covert was the security camera in question? Should Ministers be aware of such devices?
Minister reply
My understanding is that it was not a covert device. The investigation will clarify details.
Question
Is there any evidence to suggest foreign powers were involved with the camera installed in the Department of Health and Social Care?
Minister reply
There have been reports but these are speculative. Security matters cannot be commented on publicly.
Gregory Campbell
DUP
East Londonderry
Question
Have checks been made to determine if other internal offices have covert devices installed? What is the origin of the device used in this case?
Minister reply
Ministers are asking for assurances. The Department of Health and Social Care investigation will provide more details.
Question
Will the matter be investigated urgently to address questions on why a camera was installed and how footage came into public domain?
Minister reply
The investigation is being conducted with urgency as requested.
Warrington North
Question
Did Ministers use private email addresses to approve contracts, misleading the public about this? Will there be an independent investigation?
Minister reply
Ministers do not make final decisions on contracts; civil servants handle that process.
Question
Should Ministers have the space to discuss matters of high confidential nature without fear or favour?
Minister reply
Agrees with the question, stating importance of ensuring proper security measures for national decisions.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Question
Are there common rules on where cameras can and cannot be sited in ministerial offices?
Minister reply
Cameras are generally not installed within Ministers’ offices. This situation was an outlier.
Justin Madders
Lab
Ellesmere Port and Bromborough
Question
Given the concerns about private email use, can assurances be given on privacy and security?
Minister reply
Important processes are in place to scrutinise decisions regarding contracts.
Question
Will the Department work with security teams across Government to protect privacy and security of all Ministers?
Minister reply
The Cabinet Office works across Government on standards for private office security.
Question
Is it acceptable to have covert surveillance in ministerial offices? Should there be transparency regarding issues such as private email use?
Minister reply
There are processes in place, and the public can be assured that money has been spent carefully during the pandemic.
Question
Inquires about the procedures in place across Government to ensure Ministers can read sensitive documents safely.
Minister reply
Confirms that different levels of document classification exist and that robust safeguards are in place for privacy and security. Offers to review these if concerns arise.
Chris Bryant
Lab
Rhondda and Ogmore
Question
Questions the Lord Chancellor's claim that the Secretary of State knew about a camera being present in his office, suggesting incredulity.
Minister reply
Clarifies that it is for the Department of Health and Social Care to investigate what happened. The investigation will scrutinise who had access to images.
Question
Asks about whether other Ministers were aware of a camera in meetings with the former Secretary of State.
Minister reply
Acknowledges the importance of the question and hopes that answers will be revealed during the investigation led by the Department.
Angela Eagle
Lab
Wallasey
Question
Challenges the Minister's statements about the camera not being covert and questions the legality of using private emails for Government business.
Minister reply
Requests patience while an investigation is conducted. Confirms that official information in private email accounts is subject to FOI.
Debbie Abrahams
Lab
Oldham East and Saddleworth
Question
Raises concerns about transparency, honesty, and integrity within the Government, specifically regarding use of private emails and cameras.
Minister reply
Agrees that the legal position under FOI applies to private email accounts used for Government business. Will investigate other building CCTV installations.
Question
Inquires about the legality of using private emails for Government business and its implications under the Freedom of Information Act.
Minister reply
Confirms that official information held in private email accounts is subject to FOI, and destroying such emails could be a criminal offence.
Question
Asks if the leak warrants an investigation by intelligence agencies once concluded.
Minister reply
The Department of Health and Social Care leads the investigation. Will consider threshold for security and intelligence investigations.
Question
Proposes a protocol from the Cabinet Office to notify all Government employees about listening or visual devices in their workplace.
Minister reply
Agrees that such questions are pertinent. Suggests developing a protocol for notifying officials and Ministers of any official sensors.
Chi Onwurah
Lab
Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West
Question
Questions the Minister’s complacency over leaked footage from a Government building, demanding clarity on camera locations and access.
Minister reply
Confirms she is not complacent but must wait for ongoing investigations to provide full clarity.
Question
Suggests challenging guidance given to officials and Ministers about secure communications, citing difficulties in accessing secure devices.
Minister reply
Agrees that 24/7 communication poses challenges. Needs clearer guidelines for moving between different systems used by Ministers.
Rachael Maskell
Lab Co-op
York Central
Question
Critiques the Government's approach to information and communications security, requesting assurance on changes being made.
Minister reply
Confirms that a number of issues need addressing. Will provide updates in coming days.
Joanna Cherry
SNP
Edinburgh South
Question
Can the Minister confirm that it would be a criminal offence for any Minister to destroy communications they have made about Government business on private emails or messaging apps, particularly in relation to defeating the ends of justice regarding freedom of information requests or inquiries into the covid crisis?
Minister reply
Official information held in private email accounts is subject to freedom of information and all the rules and restrictions around that.
Felicity Buchan
Con
Oxford West and Abingdon
Question
Given the importance and sensitivity of security, should we not centralise this to ensure every Department complies and there is no aberrant behaviour?
Minister reply
The ultimate responsibility for security lies with the Prime Minister and the Cabinet Secretary, but it is for the accounting officers to be answerable on these matters for their Departments.
Chris Matheson
Lab
Gloucester
Question
Would it not be a good idea if the Prime Minister made a statement telling us exactly when he first knew about the device and its contents, especially given that respected former Ministers in the Chamber were unaware of these cameras?
Minister reply
The Wilson doctrine is maintained to ensure no covert surveillance within a Minister’s office. Some questions raised will be answered through an investigation underway in the Department of Health.
Alec Shelbrooke
Con
Wetherby and Easingwold
Question
Will my hon. Friend liaise with her Department and the Cabinet Secretary to ensure any information about who had access to video footage is fed into Mr Speaker's investigation?
Minister reply
I thank my right hon. Friend for his questions, which will be answered as part of this investigation.
Bob Stewart
Con
Beckenham
Question
May I ask the Minister to stress how unsatisfactory the situation is and demand not only that it never happens again but that we get the answers she has been unable to furnish today?
Minister reply
Those are extremely important questions about security of Ministers’ Offices. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, who could not be in the House, will hopefully provide some reassurances on these matters.
Scott Benton
Con
High Peak
Question
Is a Department-led inquiry sufficient for the gravity of this situation? Will she consider whether this leak was a breach of the Official Secrets Act?
Minister reply
I thank my hon. Friend and will want an answer to that question.
Alan Brown
SNP
Clydebank and Milport
Question
Is a Department-led inquiry sufficient for this situation? We need to understand security risks of Ministers doing business by private email, and we need assurance that parliamentary emails should be used.
Minister reply
I am sorry that I cannot furnish the House with answers on the matter of security today but hope to do so shortly.
Bill Wiggin
Con
North Herefordshire
Question
Does my hon. Friend agree that we need a root-and-branch change in trust and behaviour of the civil service?
Minister reply
In this episode, questions will be answered about whether a matter was leaked involving any civil servants who are vetted when they do their jobs.
Diana R. Johnson
Lab
Kingston upon Hull North and Cottingham
Question
When I was a Minister, parliamentary emails or private emails were not allowed for Government business. Will the Minister confirm whether using private email accounts to discuss sensitive Government information is in breach of certain Acts?
Minister reply
Government guidance states that official devices, email accounts and communications applications should be used for classified information but other forms of electronic communication may be used in conducting business. Official information held in private email accounts is subject to FOI.
Shadow Comment
Peter Bone
Shadow Comment
Peter Bone questioned whether private conversations in Government offices could be secretly recorded and if the Wilson doctrine had been breached. He sought clarity on recording devices, their authorisation, access, purpose, retention periods, surveillance practices, and measures preventing illicit recordings or devices.
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