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Police National Computer
18 January 2021
Lead MP
Kit Malthouse
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
Crime & Law Enforcement
Other Contributors: 25
At a Glance
Kit Malthouse raised concerns about police national computer in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The Minister informed the House about technical issues affecting the police national computer over the past week. Due to human error, defective coding led to the deletion of records that should not have been deleted and failure to delete some that should have been. An estimated 213,000 offence records, 175,000 arrest records, and 15,000 person records are being investigated for potential deletions. The minister outlined the steps taken: halting further automated processes on January 10th, establishing a bronze, silver, and gold command to manage the incident, initiating work through these commands to assess the full scale and impact of the incident, developing plans to recover lost data in four phases, and commissioning an internal review to learn from this situation. The minister urged patience while the Home Office and police forces collaborate on recovery efforts.
Question
The MP asked whether it can be confirmed that the faulty script was introduced into the police national computer on November 23, meaning a delay of 48 days in identifying the issue.
Minister reply
The Minister responded without direct confirmation or denial but indicated an ongoing investigation to understand the full circumstances leading to this incident.
Question
An MP questioned whether DNA records and fingerprint records held on separate databases have been deleted, and inquired about the impact of these deletions on police investigations.
Minister reply
The Minister did not provide a definitive answer but indicated an assessment to determine the full impact of data loss on ongoing investigations and intelligence gathering efforts.
Question
Another MP inquired about the status of the national law enforcement data programme, which is set to replace the current PNC system, and whether it remains uncertain due to risks identified previously.
Minister reply
The Minister indicated that while there were previous warnings regarding investment in the PNC, efforts are ongoing to ensure secure management and recovery of critical data.
Torfaen
Question
Asked where Home Secretary is; questioned scale of data loss from initial reports; queried timing of script introduction, whether it was identified as faulty immediately; challenged statement that only individuals released with no further action have affected records; inquired about deleted DNA and fingerprint records; questioned impact on UK visa systems and police investigations; asked if national law enforcement data project delivery is still in doubt; urged for contingency plans to recover data.
Minister reply
The error was escalated through Home Office protocols; scale of loss uncertain, but ongoing analysis will provide clarity by week's end; script introduced weeks before deletion, ran on Saturday when issue identified; records with prior convictions unaffected; visa processing halted briefly, resuming quickly; impact on police investigations assessed; national law enforcement data project reset, partnership working in progress; maintaining data integrity critical, hope for rectification and recovery of deleted data.
Question
Asked for more encouragement regarding potential remedy for wrongly deleted data; questioned if computer experts could recover data within a few weeks.
Minister reply
Optimistic about ability to recover data due to multiple storage areas; full picture will be known by end of week; cross-checking methods available and being utilised by police forces.
Joanna Cherry
SNP
Edinburgh South West
Question
I thank the Minister for advance sight of his statement. Two weeks ago, the Home Secretary was boasting that the United Kingdom is now a safer place because of Brexit. However, before it was disbanded by the Government, the Select Committee on the Future Relationship with the European Union heard detailed expert evidence explaining why the United Kingdom is not a safer place as a result of the law enforcement part of the Brexit deal. Now that situation has been further exacerbated by this loss of important fingerprint, DNA and arrest history records, which the police use for real-time checks on our own UK-wide databases. Mr Speaker, you really couldn’t make it up, yet curiously the Home Secretary is nowhere to be seen. Instead, she has sent her junior Minister to take the flak. I have two areas of questions for him.
Minister reply
On the hon. and learned Lady’s two substantive questions, this had absolutely nothing to do with SIS II—the Schengen information system. These were, as I said earlier, deletions in line with our legal obligations not to hold data for people who are not of continuing interest to the police, under legislation that was enacted by this House some years ago. On the conversations with police forces, obviously the National Police Chiefs Council lead has cascaded throughout policing the information required to put in place mitigations. We will also, of course, co-operate as closely as possible, and I will be keeping my opposite number in the Scottish Government informed.
Scott Benton
Con
Weaver Vale
Question
I thank the Minister for providing the House with more detail on this unfortunate issue. Can he confirm that the police have a full understanding of what has happened and that appropriate measures will be taken to ensure that it is not repeated?
Minister reply
That is absolutely right. I understand that the police were informed, along with the senior levels of the Home Office, on the Monday after the incident occurred, and they are part of the Gold group command that is dealing with the incident. As hon. Members will have seen from the letter that was leaked to The Times—the detailed letter that was sent round policing—the NPCC lead on this matter is very much at the table, working with us to ensure that we rectify it as soon as possible.
Yvette Cooper
Lab
Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley
Question
It is very hard to understand how 400,000 records could be deleted from such a crucial system without there being a proper back-up system in place. If this was the normal weekly process as ever, why was new coding being used? If new coding is often used, why are there not built-in safeguards? Is it true that Ministers were warned many months ago that their approach to the police national computer and database posed a significant risk to policing’s ability to protect the public? What did the Home Secretary do about that?
Minister reply
With a large database of something like 13 million records, it is routine to use mini-programmes that run on the database to deal with data. As I understand it, this new coding was put in place as a weeding request from policing itself. Obviously, to ensure that this does not reoccur, one of the questions that we will have to answer is: what went wrong not only in the writing of the code that introduced this error but in the quality and system checking that then sat behind it? Once we have gone through the exercise of ensuring that we have rectified this as much as we can, that will be exactly the kind of lesson that we learn.
Andrew Griffith
Con
Arundel and South Downs
Question
This incident is not without precedent—the Minister will recall that in 2007, 25 million child benefit records were lost. Can he confirm that everything possible will be done to remedy this and to learn whatever lessons need to be learned?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is right that, over the years, there have been a number of issues around governmental handling of data. It is a large and complex issue, and we are dealing with huge amounts of data that are very difficult to handle. He can be assured, and I hope the rest of the House will be, that we are working flat out to get on top of this problem and to rectify it. The first stage of our plan has gone well. The second stage is under way, and I expect to report better progress to the House in due course.
Alistair Carmichael
Lib Dem
Orkney and Shetland
Question
The Times reports today that the Home Office was warned in July 2019 that police databases were “creaking” and that they operated on end of life, unsupported hardware and software. It further reports that the Home Office response was that it would only “fix on fail”. In other words, knowing that there was likely to be failure, the Home Office decided to just let it happen and fix it if it had to. Can the Minister tell the House whether there was ministerial involvement in that response, and if there was not, does he not think there should have been?
Minister reply
I was not necessarily in post at that point, so I do not know whether there was ministerial involvement in that particular decision. I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that we have been working quite hard over the last year or so to get the technology projects in the Home Office—the national law enforcement data programme and the new communications network for the police—back on track.
Selaine Saxby
Con
North Devon
Question
Does my hon. Friend agree that, instead of attempting to score political points from this unfortunate error, the Opposition parties should be engaging constructively and working in the national interest?
Minister reply
Yes. It is the hope of all Government Members that Opposition Members will work constructively with us. I had a very constructive briefing over the weekend with the hon. Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds); the shadow Policing Minister, the hon. Member for Croydon Central (Sarah Jones); and the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee, the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper). We are committed to as much transparency as the House requires.
Andrew Gwynne
Ind
Gorton and Denton
Question
The Home Secretary likes to talk tough on crime, but the shocking loss of 400,000 records is a major failing on her watch and she is incapable of facing up to it. She should be here before the House today. The Policing Minister talked in his statement about mitigation. Can he give the House an absolute guarantee that no investigation has been or will be compromised because the deleted information could not be cross-referenced?
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman again casts aspersions on the Home Secretary, who is one of the hardest-working politicians I have come across in my 20-odd years in politics, and I think it is deeply unfair to make that claim. As he knows, it is perfectly usual for Ministers of State to take urgent questions or indeed make statements in this House, and we are doing no different from what a Government that he supported did in the past.
Marco Longhi
Reform
Newark
Question
Can the Minister confirm that human error will be designed out of the system and that criticism should focus on the west midlands police and crime commissioner?
Minister reply
Human error is difficult to design out, but quality assessment systems must improve. The rectification plan was swift upon detection. Criticism towards the PCC in West Midlands can be addressed during upcoming elections.
Afzal Khan
Lab
Manchester Rusholme
Question
Given that this scandal occurred on Home Secretary's watch, will the Minister outline steps to ensure such data loss does not occur again?
Minister reply
Ensuring integrity of police data is a priority. The current focus is on understanding and rectifying the scale of problem. Future prevention measures are being considered.
Lee Anderson
Reform
Ashfield
Question
Does the Minister agree that Opposition's stance contradicts their past statements regarding police data?
Minister reply
The relationship between Opposition and policing is complex. The government stands firm in supporting technology necessary for crime fighting.
Question
Can the Minister confirm categorically that no records of criminal or dangerous persons were deleted?
Minister reply
Initial assessment does not indicate risk to public from deleted data. A full report is awaited which will clarify this matter.
Danny Kruger
Reform
East Wiltshire
Question
Will those relying on police national computer data be able to rerun their searches once recovery work completes?
Minister reply
Once the system is restored and necessary deletions are made, searches can be rerun. Other databases will also mitigate this issue.
Question
What impact has data loss had on recruitment processes? Have applications from re-joiners been rejected?
Minister reply
Recruitment is unaffected and ahead of target. An investigation into rejection of re-joiner applications is underway.
Deidre Brock
SNP
Edinburgh North and Leith
Question
Given the importance, why did Home Secretary not present this statement? Will data loss affect visa and immigration systems?
Minister reply
The Home Secretary is committed to her role. Visa processing was briefly delayed but no applications were affected.
Sara Britcliffe
Con
Dewsbury
Question
Is the Home Office working with police and partners to recover data and assess extent of problem?
Minister reply
Extensive collaboration is ongoing. National Police Chiefs Council, National Crime Agency are part of gold group addressing this issue.
Tony Lloyd
Lab
Manchester Central
Question
Can victims of domestic abuse trust in full recovery of data? Will building criminal patterns be compromised?
Minister reply
Full data recovery is not yet guaranteed. Other systems like police national database may retain necessary information.
Bob Blackman
Con
Harrow East
Question
Can the Minister confirm that there is no suggestion of criminal intent behind this error and that alarm bells rang immediately upon detection?
Minister reply
There is no allegation beyond human error. Immediate action was taken to stop further deletions when the error was detected.
Angela Eagle
Lab
Wallasey
Question
If these 400,000 lost records are not recovered, this human error will have an impact on public safety, will it not?
Minister reply
We will not know entirely until we have analysed the reports, but early indications were optimistic about recovery because data is held elsewhere. If, in some circumstances, data is irrecoverable, we will have to consider other mitigations with policing partners to make sure that we remain as safe as we can in this country.
Alberto Costa
Con
South Leicestershire
Question
In a few weeks’ time, Colin Pitchfork, who raped and brutally murdered two teenage girls in my South Leicestershire constituency some 30 years ago, will have a parole hearing. I know that the Minister is not responsible directly for the Parole Board, but he is responsible for public protection. First, can he write to me confirming that any records lost did not pertain to Colin Pitchfork? Secondly, and more importantly, can he give an assurance at the Dispatch Box that my constituents, if Colin Pitchfork is released, will not be put at risk by any of the records lost?
Minister reply
I would be more than happy to write to my hon. Friend confirming that the issue we are dealing with pertains to people who have been subject to police investigation or arrested and released with no further action, which seems to exclude Mr Pitchfork from consideration. Additionally, I will ensure that offender management conditions put on an individual when released by the Ministry of Justice mean that people in my hon. Friend’s constituency remain safe.
Shadow Comment
Nick Thomas-Symonds
Shadow Comment
The Shadow Minister criticised the Home Secretary for not addressing the House personally regarding the serious data loss incident affecting law enforcement's ability to apprehend suspects and safeguard vulnerable individuals. He questioned the timeline of when the Home Secretary first knew about the issue, the accuracy of the initial report on the extent of data lost, and whether DNA and fingerprint records were also deleted. He raised concerns over the impact of this event on police investigations, intelligence gathering, and future replacement plans for the PNC system. The Shadow Minister highlighted previous warnings regarding investment in the PNC and called for contingency plans if recovery via current processes is not possible.
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