Scottish Independence and the Scottish Economy

Ian Murray Lab

Edinburgh South

Mr Ian Murray intervened to express his concern about the division of values between different political groups and questioned whether Scotland has a credible fiscal plan given the increasing child poverty, deteriorating education system, and NHS issues.

Alex Cunningham

Alex Cunningham interjected to voice anxiety over Scotland's potential split from the UK, particularly highlighting concerns about child poverty, education, and healthcare deterioration. He questioned who was responsible for these issues.

Angus MacNeil SNP

Na h-Eileanan an Iar

Mr Angus MacNeil rebutted criticisms by pointing out that in Ireland, which became independent, the poorest 5% are significantly better off compared to those in the UK. He suggested this as a lesson about the benefits of independence.

Toby Perkins Lab

Chesterfield

Mr Toby Perkins intervened to criticise the Scottish National Party's spending on the EU referendum campaign, questioning its commitment to remaining within the European Union. He suggested that this absence was a disservice to those who voted remain.

Christine Jardine Lib Dem

Edinburgh West

Ms Christine Jardine echoed Mr Perkins' points, pressing for an explanation from SNP leaders regarding the party's spending on the EU referendum campaign compared to its other activities.

Drew Hendry

Mr Drew Hendry challenged Toby Perkins’ assertions by highlighting that the SNP had successfully campaigned in Scotland for remaining within the European Union, achieving a majority of 62% support across all 32 council areas.

Ian Murray Lab

Edinburgh South

Murray disputes some aspects of Blackford's arguments, particularly regarding Scotland's currency options post-independence. He points out that sticking with the pound for an undefined period while planning a separate currency could deny EU membership or lead to a separate currency from both the EU and the rest of the UK.

Kirsten Oswald SNP

West Dunbartonshire

Oswald criticises Labour Members for being apologists for the Conservative government's economic policies in Scotland. She argues that supporting Brexit is harmful to Scotland and questions why Opposition members would take such a position.

Alun Cairns Con

Vale of Glamorgan

Cairns welcomes the debate but criticises Blackford for blaming everything from rising energy costs to global supply chain challenges on Brexit. He argues that acknowledging the tumultuous global situation could lead to a more sensible discussion.

Mhairi Black SNP

Paisley and Renfrewshire North

Black responds to Cairns by emphasising how unpredictable global situations highlight the importance of Scotland having control over its own resources through independence. She argues that since Scotland has not voted for a Conservative government since 1955, it is crucial to protect against unpredictability.

Alan Brown SNP

Central Ayrshire

Brown points out that while there are high global oil and gas prices, Norway has a sovereign wealth fund of $1 trillion due to its handling of resources. He criticises the UK for squandering Scottish oil and gas revenues over the years.

Luke Evans Con

Hinckley and Bosworth

Evans questions Blackford's stance on joining the euro if Scotland were to join the EU, suggesting that it could force Scotland to adopt a separate currency from both the EU and the rest of the UK.

Angus MacNeil SNP

Na h-Eileanan an Iar

MacNeil counters Evans by pointing out examples of countries in the European Union that are not part of the euro, highlighting that a country can join the euro if and when it deems appropriate.

Alister Jack Con

Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley

Believes that Scotland leaving the UK is not a priority for Scottish people or economy. Criticises SNP's constant demands for another independence referendum despite respecting the 2014 result. Emphasises economic growth has lagged under SNP leadership at Holyrood.

Steven Bonnar SNP

Glasgow North

Defends joining and supporting SNP post-referendum, stating his election was to help Scotland's path towards independence as per democracy.

Nigel Evans

Maintained order in the debate and did not contribute substantively on policy or economic matters.

Alex Cunningham Lab

Stocksbridge Penistone

Questions SNP's omission of education issues, noting Scotland's decline in PISA rankings for maths and science under SNP governance.

Jamie Stone Lib Dem

Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross

Highlights the UK's defence role during the pandemic and argues that Scottish independence would weaken UK defences.

Marion Fellows SNP

West Lothian

Challenges Alister Jack on tax contributions to Scotland, questioning whether they are entitled to their share of funds from Westminster.

Iain Stewart

Stresses the importance of real devolution in decisions made by local areas and not central Government dictating policies.

Ian Murray Lab

Edinburgh South

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber and the SNP on bringing this debate to the Chamber. I did not hear an apology from the Government for crashing the British economy with their disastrous economic policies. The current crisis is a result of catastrophic decisions made over 12 years, including when the current PM was Chancellor. The motion highlights that the pound is at a record low, mortgage rates are high and inflation continues to spiral out of control. These issues affect millions of people up and down the country, causing stress for families who struggle to make ends meet due to rising costs. A family from my constituency faced an increase in their mortgage rate from 1.79% to over 6.5%, which they cannot afford. This crisis was created by giving unfunded tax cuts to the richest.

Angus MacNeil

Asked Ian Murray whether he would prefer an independent Scotland with a Labour or SNP Government, or a Scotland inside the UK with a Tory Government, due to the catastrophic economic situation caused by being in the UK under Conservative rule. He also asked for clarification on whether Labour will continue their vow to work better together and stand shoulder to shoulder with the Tories.

Alan Brown

Called out Ian Murray for not standing up against a UK Administration and questioned him about Labour councils working in coalition with the Tories, including in Edinburgh. He emphasised that the SNP would provide better support for constituents than a Tory Government.

Dave Doogan SNP

Angus and Perthshire Glens

Asked Ian Murray to focus on the fact that children in Edinburgh South are better looked after by an SNP Scottish Government compared to those in Chesterfield, who are under a UK Administration. He highlighted the difference in welfare standards.

Sarah Owen Lab

Luton North

Responded to criticism about child poverty rates under the SNP's control and stated that it is shameful that one in four children grow up in poverty, with numbers increasing. She emphasised the importance of addressing this issue.

David Linden

Discussed high poverty rates in Glasgow due to Tory Government control over welfare spending. He questioned Ian Murray about what would be the biggest difference in immigration and Brexit policies if Labour were to take power.

Angus MacNeil SNP

Pressed Ian Murray on whether he would come forward with policies after Scotland becomes independent or would try to join the House of Lords. He questioned what Labour's position would be regarding participation in Scottish politics post-independence.

Sammy Wilson DUP

East Antrim

Congratulated Ian Murray on demolishing the case for independence but noted that a feather could knock over the argument. He criticised the SNP's failure to raise education standards, police effectively or deal with drug crises in Scotland.

Toby Perkins Lab

Chesterfield

Supported Ian Murray by pointing out that only one of the last 19 opinion polls on Scottish independence showed support for it. He highlighted that people continue to vote against independence due to inoperable difficulties.

Martin Docherty

Asked Toby Perkins whether his party supports the right of Northern Ireland's people to determine their own governance and destiny, similar to Scotland's potential right under devolution or post-independence.

Kirsty Blackman SNP

Aberdeen North

Asked Toby Perkins how he expects the next 36 years to be different from the past 72 years where Scotland has had a Conservative Government it did not vote for.

Ian Murray Lab

Edinburgh South

He questioned the SNP's proposal for an independent Scotland, pointing out significant economic hurdles and the need to address a fiscal deficit five times larger than that of the rest of the UK.

Pete Wishart SNP

Perth and Kinross-shire

Mr Wishart challenged Mr Murray, suggesting that Scotland would be successful as an independent nation due to its history of innovation and creativity. He proposed a consensus on the idea that Scotland could succeed independently.

Neale Hanvey

He clarified in interventions that he was elected as an independent MP rather than an SNP candidate, addressing a point made by Mr Murray regarding accusations of antisemitism.

David Duguid

Mr Duguid argued against the independence movement, stating that most Scots did not vote for the SNP and that current pressures are faced globally. He emphasised support measures such as the energy price guarantee and cost of living payments from the UK Government.

David Duguid Con

Sherwood

Challenged the notion that an independent Scotland could succeed more than other parts of the UK, questioning whether England, Wales or Northern Ireland would also be considered successful if separated.

Christine Jardine Lib Dem

Edinburgh West

Clarified that while nobody argues against Scotland's capability to become independent, the people of Scotland voted to remain within the United Kingdom in previous referendums.

Toby Perkins Lab

Chesterfield

Asked David Duguid if Britain being a 'failing state' under his proposition meant that Scotland should not keep the pound, given that Scotland would be more successful independent of the UK.

Robin Millar

Welcomed the tone of the debate and expressed that there is no desire from Conservative Benches for a referendum on Scottish independence.

Ian Blackford SNP

Ross, Skye and Lochaber

Acknowledged Robin Millar's approach but emphasised that the demand for independence stems from a democratic mandate in Scotland, where an SNP government won an election with a manifesto commitment to deliver a referendum.

Angus MacNeil

Questioned if Westminster can legally block a referendum and asked whether Millar would accept the result of a referendum on independence that was solely focused on that issue, highlighting the democratic principle involved.

Kirsten Oswald SNP

Ardwick

Asked David Duguid to reflect on the UK Government's treatment of refugees compared to Scotland’s open-door policy for Ukrainian refugees, suggesting that his stance does not align with current realities.

Gavin Newlands SNP

Paisley and Renfrewshire North

Scotland faces real hardship, with people having to choose between heating and eating. The Brexit dividend has led to poverty, the gig economy without protections or employment rights, a social security system that is harsh and unfair, insularism turned into a badge of honour, and economic damage from both main UK parties embracing Brexit regardless of its catastrophic impact.

Martin Docherty SNP

West Dunbartonshire

Complimented the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan for speaking up on behalf of the Union, as a Back Bencher from Scotland is here to do his job by representing his constituents.

Robin Millar Con

Aberconwy

Responded to an intervention regarding the constitutional debate and mentioned that it is not about utopia but based in reality, citing Ireland's independence as an example of a country making its own political choices instead of abdicating them.

Angus MacNeil SNP

Na h-Eileanan an Iar

Agreed with Robin Millar and added that Ireland unpegged from the pound when the UK sought IMF assistance in the 1970s, leading to Ireland's economic takeoff after joining the EU.

Ian Blackford SNP

Ross, Skye and Lochaber

Complimented Angus MacNeil's speech and highlighted that Scotland needs independence to drive economic growth through migration policies that will deliver population increase, productivity gains, and higher participation.

Kirsty Blackman SNP

Aberdeen North

Ms Blackman highlights the economic challenges faced by Scottish constituents, including high energy costs and food price hikes. She criticises UK government actions such as capping benefits and reneging on pension commitments, arguing that Scotland cannot afford to remain part of the Union due to these policies.

Mhairi Black SNP

Paisley and Renfrewshire North

Intervening to support her colleague's points, Mhairi Black argues that Scotland cannot be considered equal partners within the Union given its electoral representation. She highlights the disparity in political power between Scotland and cities like London.

Amy Callaghan SNP

St Helens North

Scotland can be a bigger player on the world stage and make decisions without Tory influence. The cost of living crisis is exacerbated by austerity measures and harmful policies. An independent Scotland would ensure children go to school with food in their tummies and end reliance on food banks.

Toby Perkins Lab

Chesterfield

The United Kingdom is better together, and the success of Scotland and England is assured by remaining united. The 2014 referendum's outcome should be respected, as it was a choice for both nations.

Stewart Hosie

Questions whether time spent campaigning against Scottish independence in 2014 could have been better used addressing Brexit, which was harmful to Scotland despite the majority of Scots voting to remain in the EU.

Kirsten Oswald

Defends concerns about UK Labour's position on Brexit and criticises those who suggest that a 73% 'remain' vote in her constituency somehow did not represent people's true desires for Scotland to stay in the EU.

Kirsty Blackman SNP

Aberdeen North

Argues that Scottish Parliament elections give a mandate for an independence referendum and questions when enough would be 'enough' if another referendum were held.

Eleanor Laing Con

Dewsbury

Announced the result of the ballot for a new Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee. Mentioned that Steve Brine was elected with 253 votes out of 401 valid votes in the final round, exceeding the quota of 201 votes.

Deidre Brock SNP

Glasgow North West

Ms Brock spoke extensively about the opportunities that an independent Scotland could explore, such as a feminist approach to foreign policy and higher environmental standards. She criticised the UK Internal Market Act for undermining devolved powers and the influence of shadowy organisations on politics.

Allan Dorans SNP

Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock

Dorans spoke about the historical context of Scottish independence, including conflicts with England and the Act of Union in 1707. He mentioned that Scotland's political elite at the time were pressured into agreeing to the Union through economic coercion. Dorans also discussed the 2014 referendum and the impact of Project Fear on voter sentiment. He argued for a new referendum due to Scotland's clear mandate from recent election results, asserting that decisions affecting Scotland should be made by its own people.

Patricia Gibson SNP

North Ayrshire and Arran

Gibson agreed with Dorans, emphasising the ongoing efforts of the Tories to maintain the Union through misinformation campaigns aimed at pensioners. She argued that these tactics will continue in future referenda.

Ian Murray Lab

Edinburgh South

Murray challenged Dorans on pension payments in an independent Scotland, questioning how they would be funded and managed.

Nigel Evans Con

Crewe and Nantwich

Called for speeches to adhere to the suggested seven-minute limit to accommodate more colleagues, particularly from the SNP.

Owen Thompson

Critiqued the UK's handling of the cost of living crisis and energy policy. He highlighted that the UK has a worse energy crisis compared to other countries due to private energy companies, and criticised the Government for exacerbating economic issues through policies like the recent Budget. Owen also discussed wealth distribution in the UK, arguing it is skewed towards the super-wealthy rather than those who need support most. He emphasised the need for more substantial support measures, particularly for off-grid heating oil users who are struggling with soaring costs and inadequate government assistance.

Kenny MacAskill SNP

Central Edinburgh

MacAskill argues that Scotland is facing an economic crisis due to the collapse of the British economy and the negative impacts of Brexit. He emphasises the need for Scottish independence, noting the energy-rich nation will face fuel poverty this winter. He criticises the lack of preparation by the SNP and the limited ability of the Scottish Government to react to public service cuts. MacAskill calls for immediate action towards a referendum on independence, including launching a Bill in the Scottish Parliament and calling a constitutional convention.

Steven Bonnar SNP

Glasgow North East

The UK that Scotland voted to remain part of in 2014 has changed due to Brexit, causing financial instability and increased inequality. The economy is broken, the NHS is decimated, immigration is out of control, and our standing in the world is a laughing stock under this right-wing Tory Government. It is imperative that social security benefits are uprated with inflation rates, and the universal credit uplift must be reinstated for all at £25 per week. Pensioners' incomes should also be protected by restoring the triple lock on pensions. Scotland cannot rely on this UK government during the cost of living crisis, making Scottish independence a viable choice.

Drew Hendry SNP

Inverness Nairn Highland and Caithness

Supports Steven Bonnar's argument that food inflation has been pushed to high levels due to Brexit and actions of this place, making it difficult for people to survive.

Patricia Gibson SNP

North Ayrshire and Arran

Disappointed in the Labour party in Scotland's reluctance to support Scottish independence despite their potential role in helping Scotland govern its own affairs.

Angus MacNeil SNP

Na h-Eileanan an Iar

MacNeil highlighted the economic downturn in the UK, citing The Atlantic's article that describes Britain as 'pretty poor for a rich place.' He also mentioned the Scottish population decrease and contrasted it with positive growth rates in Ireland, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, and the Faroe Islands. MacNeil emphasised the importance of migrants to Scotland’s rural areas and criticised the UK Government for not engaging meaningfully with other parts of the UK. He called for control over matters similar to how countries like Iceland manage their affairs, asserting that Scottish independence would be necessary for meaningful change.

Nigel Evans Con

Cannock Chase

Evans made a brief comment, suggesting Christine Jardine should demonstrate how to conduct a shorter speech compared to MacNeil's longer seven-minute contribution. He did not provide any substantial arguments or statistics.

Christine Jardine Lib Dem

Edinburgh West

She criticises the Scottish National Party's focus on independence, arguing that it distracts from pressing economic issues such as energy prices and cost of living. She cites independent assessments that question the viability of Scotland's independence papers. She emphasises the need for reform within the United Kingdom rather than breaking it up.

Ronnie Cowan

He draws parallels between Scotland and Norway, highlighting Norway’s successful path to independence in 1905. He stresses Scotland's wealth of natural resources and potential for renewable energy. He argues that political decisions should be made by the people of Scotland themselves, advocating for an independent nation capable of designing its own policies.

Nia Griffith Lab

Llanelli

Ms Griffith criticises the Conservative Government's performance over the past 12 years, highlighting issues such as higher mortgage payments, interest rates, public sector pay squeeze, and rampant inflation due to tax cuts for the rich. She supports the concept of being part of the United Kingdom but emphasises the need to distinguish it from the failures of the current government. Griffith highlights Wales' and Scotland's benefits from the UK’s influence on a global scale, referring to past achievements such as debt cancellation in 2005 and leadership during the financial crisis. She also discusses climate change, devolution, and the importance of respect and cooperation between the UK Government and devolved Governments.

Anum Qaisar SNP

Glasgow Shettleston

Expressed shock at the previous speaker's contribution and discussed the broken nature of Westminster, highlighting issues like corporate tax avoidance by Shell and BP while constituents struggle with heating and food. Criticised the Conservative Party for dismantling the social security system and deepening poverty. Advocated for Scottish independence to build an inclusive economy and develop immigration policies aligned with Scottish values. Emphasised the differences in asylum policy between UK and Scotland, criticising the use of terms like 'invasion' by Home Secretary. Called out Tory MPs for pitting communities against each other on issues such as trade unionism, immigration, and welfare. Proposed a single real living wage rate for all workers to address inequality.

Tommy Sheppard SNP

Edinburgh East

Sheppard criticised the Conservative government's approach in working-class communities and argued that Labour lacks ambition. He pointed out that Scotland’s economy has potential to thrive independently, emphasising fair rights at work, progressive taxation policies, and renewable energy benefits for citizens.

Chris Stephens SNP

Glasgow Cathcart

Chris Stephens spoke about the importance of recognising Scottish constituencies that voted for independence. He criticised speakers opposing a referendum for not defining conditions under which one would occur, calling it 'deeply fascinating.' He also highlighted poor accommodation conditions for asylum seekers compared to Ukrainian refugees and questioned the notion of a Union dividend in light of increasing food bank usage. Stephens emphasised workers' rights issues and argued for an independent Scotland that abolishes zero-hour contracts and supports trade unions with better working conditions.

Marion Fellows SNP

Motherwell and Wishaw

The speaker emphasised the economic damage caused by recent UK government policies, particularly since the mini-Budget on 23 September. She highlighted the impact on families caring for disabled children, citing statistics from the Family Fund's report 'The Cost of Caring'. These include 64% of parents spending between 35 and 100 hours a week caring for their children while only 50% are in work. The speaker also noted rising debt levels among these families with over 40% reporting they cannot afford to keep their accommodation warm, compared to an increase of 13% since last December. Additionally, the average annual income for such families is £17,000. She argued that Scotland needs independence to create a more equal society and protect vulnerable citizens from further damaging policies.

Stewart Hosie SNP

Dundee East

Critiqued the UK Government's approach to Scotland, emphasised the need for a calmer and more sensible debate on independence, and highlighted the determination of the SNP to provide detailed answers to questions regarding an independent Scotland.

Richard Thomson SNP

Motherwell and Wishaw

Argues for Scottish independence based on the principle that those governing Scotland should be chosen by its residents. Recalls debates from the late 1980s and early 1990s, noting the dissatisfaction with a Conservative government overseeing Scotland despite limited representation in Westminster. Believes a referendum showing near unanimous support for independence would follow if all Scottish adults witnessed Scottish questions and Prime Minister's Question Time. Highlights the importance of social justice, economic fairness, and infrastructure improvement in Scotland, but criticises the UK’s constitutional structure as an impediment to these goals. Acknowledges positive developments since devolution but argues that Scotland remains constrained without full independence. Criticises Labour for supporting Brexit despite earlier promises during the 2014 referendum campaign. Emphasises the lack of credible proposals from opposition parties on meaningful reform, and concludes by advocating for Scotland’s independent future.

Christine Jardine Lib Dem

Edinburgh West

Intervenes to point out that the Campbell commission proposed a report detailing how federalism could be implemented in the UK. Also mentions Gordon Brown's recent proposals and suggests that Scotland’s Futures is working towards this goal, proposing assemblies for other parts of the United Kingdom as part of a more representative approach.

Kirsten Oswald SNP

West Tyrone

Ms Oswald congratulated contributors and emphasised the strong case for Scotland's independence, highlighting its preparedness and economic strengths. She mentioned that since 2014, the Union has proven risky instead of risk-free as previously claimed by supporters of the Union. Ms Oswald pointed out that Scotland leads in education, renewable energy, food and drink exports, child poverty reduction, early learning and childcare, real living wage adoption, gender pay gap reduction, LGBT rights, and immigration policy. She criticised the UK Government's approach to Brexit, the economy, cost-of-living crisis, and anti-immigrant rhetoric, urging for an independent Scotland with its own immigration system.

Alan Brown

Challenged the Minister by questioning why there are high levels of inequality and poor pension standards despite being part of a supposedly successful Union, and questioned if revisiting the question of independence is justified more than seven years later.

Ian Blackford SNP

Ross, Skye and Lochaber

Welcomed the historic vote on Scottish independence in favour of economic stability. He pointed out that a majority from Scottish constituencies voted for independence, reflecting the mandate given to the Scottish Government to deliver an independence referendum.

Eleanor Laing

Clarified that despite some doubts about quorum, the House was indeed quorate with 40 votes plus four Tellers and herself. She stated that it is not her place to comment on what actions the Government might take in response to Scottish independence.

Alistair Carmichael Lib Dem

Orkney and Shetland

Asked if the Home Secretary intended to make a further statement about the detention centre at Manston, given recent reports that contradict her previous statements. He urged for clarity on whether the Minister would address these issues in the House.

Daisy Cooper Lib Dem

St Albans

Inquired about how to secure a response from the Department of Health and Social Care regarding allegations of sexual abuse in the NHS, which had not been addressed since May. She sought advice on correcting inaccuracies in parliamentary responses.

Commons Sense

Scottish Independence and the Scottish Economy

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