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Scotland’s Future
14 December 2022
Lead MP
Tommy Sheppard
Debate Type
General Debate
Tags
ScotlandBrexitEnergy
Other Contributors: 35
At a Glance
Tommy Sheppard raised concerns about scotland’s future in the House of Commons. Other MPs contributed to the debate.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Lead Contributor
Opened the debate
Scottish National Party moves for the Scottish people to determine their future constitutional status, proposing an order allowing a Bill concerning a modification of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 to be read and debated without interruption on Tuesday 10 January 2023. Sheppard emphasises that the debate is crucial to addressing real issues facing families in Scotland such as nurse strikes, energy supply inefficiencies, migration policies, and the impact of Brexit.
Tommy Sheppard
SNP
Edinburgh East
Emphasises that the debate is about governance and public policy outcomes. He cites specific examples such as nurse strikes in England and Wales but not in Scotland, due to Scottish Ministers' negotiations with trade unions; energy supply inefficiencies leading to people unable to afford renewable energy; and migration policies where Conservative MPs cheered anti-migrant rhetoric. Sheppard argues that the SNP's mission was to protect those who voted for them within given constraints after 2014 referendum results.
Luke Evans
Con
Hinckley and Bosworth
Intervenes to clarify that while immigration is a key issue, the debate focused on illegal aspects of migration rather than pathways for legal immigration. He asserts that those skills are needed in the country.
Intervenes to point out that after winning 56 out of 59 seats in Scotland, the SNP's stance on independence should be re-evaluated as it had previously stated they would not fight for independence. He questions whether things changed immediately following their election win.
Intervenes to ask if Nicola Sturgeon was truthful when she said that voting SNP in the 2015 election did not equate to supporting another independence referendum, challenging her commitment to the people of Scotland.
Rosie Winterton
Lab
Stockport
As Chair of the debate, Rosie Winterton emphasised the importance of addressing each other through the Chair rather than directly calling out colleagues. She intervened to ensure that all participants adhere to parliamentary etiquette.
Aaron Bell
Con
Worcester
Bell questioned whether there should be a limit on holding referendums, suggesting a need for stability in constitutional matters to focus on other pressing issues such as education and healthcare.
Hannah Bardell
SNP
Livingston
Bardell countered Bell's argument by asserting that democracy should not be restricted. She argued that if a political party won an election with a mandate for another referendum, they would have the right to hold one.
John Redwood
Con
Wokingham
Redwood questioned the SNP's stance on Scotland joining the European Union while acknowledging Spain’s stance against Catalan independence, thereby raising doubts about the feasibility of Scottish EU membership post-independence.
John Lamont
Con
Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
Lamont congratulated Stephen Flynn on becoming SNP group leader but critiqued the new leadership's focus on constitutional matters rather than pressing issues like healthcare. He emphasised that despite a fresh approach being promised, the debate still revolves around division and grievance.
Tommy Sheppard
SNP
Edinburgh East
Sheppard responded to interventions from John Redwood, Luke Evans, Alun Cairns, Alan Brown, questioning the impact of Brexit on energy regulation and expressing concern over investment stability due to constant constitutional debate.
Ian Murray
Lab
Edinburgh South
Congratulates the SNP for bringing forward a motion, but criticises it for not addressing pressing issues such as poverty and the cost of living crisis. Emphasises that the Scottish Government has powers to introduce new support measures yet chooses to focus on another independence referendum instead. Highlights issues like homelessness, education, health, and climate change which are being sidelined by SNP's insistence on debating independence.
Douglas Ross
Con
Moray
Critiques the SNP's approach to debates and their behaviour during discussions about Scottish independence. Highlights issues such as cancer waiting times, maternity services in Moray, and wasted resources in healthcare. Emphasises that health is a devolved matter but criticises how funds are used by the SNP Government.
Alan Brown
SNP
Central Ayrshire
Intervenes to question why Douglas Ross does not attend debates often, and challenges him on his complaints about the current debate. Suggests that if Ross wants to address issues of Scottish independence, he should do so rather than focusing on grievances.
Brendan O'Hara
SNP
Argyll and Bute
Responds by questioning Ross's commitment to the UK Parliament versus his role in the Scottish Parliament. Suggests that if he wants to discuss issues of independence, it should be done within the context of this debate.
Hannah Bardell
SNP
Livingston
Defends SNP's approach by stating that despite limited powers and budget constraints, they work diligently to manage the challenges created by UK policies. Argues for full independence as a solution to enable better governance.
Carol Monaghan
SNP
Glasgow North West
Challenges Ross on immigration controls post-Brexit and its impact on NHS recruitment from Europe, suggesting that devolving immigration powers could address healthcare staffing issues.
Ian Blackford
SNP
Ross, Skye and Lochaber
Blackford argues for the economic and democratic right of Scotland to have an independence referendum based on historical precedents and current socio-economic conditions. He highlights Scotland's energy potential and criticises the Westminster pricing regime as not fit for purpose in a country abundant with renewable resources.
Hannah Bardell
SNP
Livingston
Ms Bardell emphasised the Scottish National Party's desire for independence due to Westminster's failure towards Scotland. She highlighted several life-changing policies in healthcare, education, and social welfare implemented by the SNP despite limited powers, arguing that full independence would allow even greater achievements. She criticised the Conservative government for lying during referendums, mismanaging the economy, and undermining democracy. Ms Bardell also pointed out failures such as the Brexit referendum, which Scotland did not vote for, and criticised both Labour and Conservative parties for their lack of ambition in addressing systemic issues. She expressed frustration over the UK's broken system and called for a fresh start through Scottish independence.
Dwyfor Meirionnydd
Welcomes the opportunity to discuss devolution and supports Scotland's right to an independence referendum. Criticises Westminster for refusing to guarantee self-determination for all devolved nations, disregarding the Sewel convention, and ignoring warnings from Welsh Government about trade deals. Also criticises Labour Party's proposals for devolution in Wales as inadequate and undermining of devolved powers.
Supports Scottish independence and criticises the Supreme Court judgment that denied Scotland's sovereignty, emphasising the need to reclaim sovereignty from UK courts and Parliament. Welcomes increased support for independence in polls but calls for a new route towards achieving it.
Patrick Grady
SNP
Glasgow North
The hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) supports the principle of a Scottish independence referendum, asserting that if a majority of people in Scotland vote for independence, Scotland will become an independent country. He criticises the Better Together parties for opposing the motion and suggests that they are avoiding a referendum due to fear. Patrick Grady argues that the UK Government's continual veto or ignoring of the Scottish Parliament and Government necessitates a different electoral test. He points out that the 2019 general election was effectively a de facto referendum on Brexit, with parties presenting their propositions and voters making decisions accordingly. However, he questions how Labour could claim a mandate for sweeping constitutional reforms while denying one to pro-independence candidates in Scotland. Grady concludes by stating that Westminster’s control over financial matters hinders effective responses to the cost of living crisis, public service support, and economic challenges in Scotland.
Brendan O'Hara
SNP
Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber
The debate centres on the constitutional right of Scotland to hold an independence referendum. Brendan O'Hara argues that denying this right is undemocratic. He references the Supreme Court ruling confirming Parliament’s power over referenda but asserts that ignoring the SNP's mandate and public opinion polls does not justify the current opposition stance. He suggests a road to Damascus-like change of heart from the Government is unlikely but necessary for democracy. O'Hara points out the lack of confidence in maintaining Union support by denying a referendum, questioning if Labour’s priority trumps Scottish voters' wishes expressed at the ballot box.
Pete Wishart
SNP
Perth and Kinross-shire
The speaker outlines that since the Supreme Court ruling, support for an independent Scotland has remained steady or increased despite Unionist expectations to the contrary. He mentions several opinion polls showing majority support for independence and highlights the resilience of the Scottish character in defying imposed limitations. Wishart argues against the UK Government's reluctance to provide a clear path forward for a future referendum, emphasising the importance of democratic engagement.
Cowan criticises the Conservative and Unionist UK Government's austerity policies affecting Scotland and argues that Westminster denies Scotland the power to address these issues. He mentions the servile attitude of some Scottish MPs towards the UK Government, which he sees as empowering Westminster further. Cowan stresses the importance of respecting Scotland’s right to seek a referendum on independence.
Alan Brown
SNP
Clydebank and Milport
The speaker criticises Unionists for denying the right of Scottish voters to choose their future through a referendum, citing the outcome of the 2014 vote and pointing out that the SNP won more seats in 2021 than it did in 2011. He also mentions the EU referendum which was justified by the Tories despite winning only 37% of the UK-wide vote in 2015. The speaker emphasises the frustration among Scottish people due to a perceived lack of respect for democratic processes.
Douglas Ross
Con
Ochil and South Perth
The intervention by Douglas Ross challenges Alan Brown's assertion that the SNP would not be allowed to debate devolved matters in Westminster. He invites the speaker to propose debates on issues such as education and health at future SNP Opposition days, suggesting Mr Speaker will decide whether these are within the competency of the House.
Peter Grant
SNP
Gordon
The Scottish Parliament is one of, if not the most powerful devolved Parliament in the world. The motion is not a plea from a subservient people but a clear statement from a sovereign people about their country's direction. It is an opportunity for Unionist parties to respect Scotland's sovereignty and allow it to decide its own future. Withholding consent will not stop Scotland from settling its own future, as the more the British state tries to stand in Scotland’s way, the sooner independence will happen.
Gavin Newlands
SNP
Paisley and Renfrewshire North
Newlands asserts that the Scottish Government has a clear mandate from voters for another independence referendum but faces obstruction from the UK government. He calls on the government to allow the process to proceed democratically, highlighting previous support for referendums by various British Prime Ministers and questioning the current reluctance as hypocritical.
Brendan O'Hara
SNP
Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber
O'Hara intervenes to reinforce Newlands' argument about the shift in stance from previous support for referendums to current opposition by the UK government. He asks Newlands to speculate on reasons behind this change of heart.
Peter Grant
SNP
Glenrothes
Grant intervenes to highlight inconsistencies within the Conservative Party regarding their approach to referendums, pointing out that in 2021 they claimed voting for them was the only way to prevent an independence referendum but received a lower percentage of votes than expected.
John Lamont
Con
Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
Lamont responds by explaining that consensus among all relevant parties is required for another Scottish independence referendum to occur, a condition which he states is currently lacking.
Patricia Gibson
SNP
North Ayrshire and Arran
Gibson intervenes to emphasise the lack of clarity from the government on how an independence referendum could be legally initiated. She criticises the Prime Minister for previously supporting such referendums but now opposing them, suggesting a change in his stance.
Alan Brown
SNP
Kilmarnock and Loudoun
Brown questions why someone like Rees-Mogg, who opposes Scottish independence, was supportive of referendums for other issues such as fracking. He sees this as an inconsistency in the Conservative Party's approach.
Kirsty Blackman
SNP
Aberdeen North
Ms Blackman stated that the SNP is consistent in its advocacy for Scottish independence, unlike other parties which have been inconsistent and often contradictory. She criticised the Conservative party's track record on determining whether something is a referendum or not and questioned the Minister about his stance on support from all parties for a referendum. She also highlighted financial constraints faced by the Scottish Parliament due to lack of flexibility over finances.
John Lamont
Con
Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
Mr Lamont criticised the SNP for focusing on the constitution instead of addressing pressing issues such as education, cost of living, and healthcare. He highlighted that under the previous government, Scotland's schools were among the best in the world but have slipped down international league tables since the SNP took power.
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