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Tackling Fraud and Preventing Government Waste
01 February 2022
Lead MP
Rachel Reeves
Debate Type
General Debate
Tags
Crime & Law Enforcement
Other Contributors: 35
At a Glance
Rachel Reeves raised concerns about tackling fraud and preventing government waste in the House of Commons. Other MPs contributed to the debate.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Lead Contributor
Opened the debate
Ms. Reeves highlighted the significant amount of taxpayers' money lost to fraud and waste, particularly since the start of the coronavirus pandemic. She cited specific figures such as £4.3 billion written off from Treasury-backed Covid business support schemes and noted that this represents a third of the tax hike planned by the Government. She also emphasised the need for proper checks on who received government aid and accused the Chancellor of ignoring warnings about fraud risks.
Rachel Reeves
Lab
Leeds West
Ms. Reeves discussed the £4.3 billion in fraud written off by the Government, calling for a thorough investigation by the National Crime Agency and for the Chancellor to provide detailed information on how much taxpayers’ money has been successfully retrieved before 31 March 2022.
Angela Eagle
Lab
Wallasey
Ms. Eagle questioned the Government’s decision to shoo away the National Crime Agency when it offered help in recovering fraudulently taken money, aligning with Lord Agnew's resignation over 'schoolboy errors'.
Catherine West
Lab
Hornsey and Friern Barnet
Ms. West emphasised that the Chancellor must address both the cost of living crisis and the fraud in government schemes, noting that working people will have to pay for the loss through national insurance tax rises.
Meg Hillier
Lab Co-op
Hackney South and Shoreditch
Ms. Hillier questioned why HMRC is not investing more in compliance to get back furlough fraud, pointing out the high rate of return for every pound spent.
Barnsley South
Ms. Peacock highlighted the £30 million funding lost in Barnsley since 2018 and criticised the Chancellor’s inaction on fraud recovery, emphasising that drug barons received taxpayers’ money while legitimate businesses were left out.
Emma Hardy
Lab
Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice
Ms. Hardy recounted a story of a driving instructor who was entitled to no compensation during the pandemic, illustrating the disparity between fraudsters receiving aid and legitimate businesses being left behind.
Kim Johnson
Lab
Liverpool Riverside
Ms. Johnson agreed that writing off £4.3 billion is a disgrace given the austerity faced by local authorities over 12 years, impacting communities deeply.
Andy McDonald
Lab
Middlesbrough and Thornaby East
McDonald questioned the transfer of public share in a joint venture with tens of millions of pounds of taxpayer investment to private companies. He called for an independent inquiry into governance issues.
Stafford condemned Labour-run Rotherham Council for returning millions of pounds of discretionary funding, calling it a scandal and a waste of taxpayers' money.
Nick Smith
Lab
Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney
Smith questioned the Government's plan to deal with fraudulent business loans and asked how they would recover £77 million from the eat out to help out scheme loss, pointing out the lack of detail on handling the issue.
Emma Hardy
Lab
Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice
Hardy criticised the Government for not acting promptly when they knew about issues with Companies House years before the pandemic, suggesting this led to significant fraud in government support schemes.
Kevin Hollinrake
Con
Thirsk and Malton
Hollinrake acknowledged Lord Agnew's resignation but emphasised that the bounce back loan scheme was an important intervention. He suggested ensuring checks were followed by all banks who distributed these loans.
Meg Hillier
Lab Co-op
Hackney South and Shoreditch
Hillier pointed out inaccuracies in the Paymaster General's figures about loan repayments, noting that 10-year loans cannot have high repayment rates so quickly.
Richard Fuller
Con
North Bedfordshire
Fuller sought clarification on Lord Agnew’s resignation and questioned whether issues related primarily to processes within certain banks.
Emma Hardy
Lab
Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice
Hardy criticised the Government for ignoring a leading PPE equipment supplier, Arco, in favour of those with connections to the Conservative Party.
Thewliss condemned Lord Agnew’s resignation letter and called it a condemnation of the government. She highlighted massive amounts of money lost to fraud and suggested these funds could have been better spent on social security, NHS staff pay increases or stimulus cheques for those on universal credit.
Richard Fuller
Con
North Bedfordshire
No extracted contribution text available for this contributor yet.
Welcomed the Opposition's use of time on the debate, emphasising the importance of good decision making and prudent handling of public funds. He highlighted that fraud and waste of public funds are unacceptable but cautioned against jumping down the Government’s throat too quickly about unrecovered sums from covid support measures. He called for an economic crime Bill to tighten up the system and provide law enforcement with better tools to collaborate with the private sector.
Jerome Mayhew
Con
Broadland and Fakenham
Jerome Mayhew, Conservative MP for Broadland and Fakenham, acknowledged the debate on fraud but argued that Labour had not been consistent in addressing fraud. He referred to past issues like the private finance initiative scheme under Blair’s government. Mayhew defended the Government's quick response during the early months of 2020, emphasising the trade-off between speed and security. He cited examples where rapid action by the Government helped save businesses and jobs from collapsing due to pandemic closures.
Ben Lake
PC
Ceredigion Preseli
Mr. Lake expressed agreement with the need to pursue fraudsters for any losses incurred from fraudulent activity in public funds, particularly as it relates to taxation discussions. He highlighted that approximately 26% of public money taken unlawfully from covid-19 schemes will not be recovered by HMRC, equating to £4.3 billion out of a total £5.8 billion stolen. Mr. Lake also pointed out that increasing working-age benefits and pension credit by 6%, rather than the planned 3.1%, would cost around £3 billion, which is half the amount lost to fraud. He stressed the importance of public finance management, referencing Public Accounts Committee reports indicating HMRC's failure to evaluate significant tax reliefs from 2015 to 2020, resulting in a loss of approximately £117 billion. Mr. Lake drew attention to instances where businesses faced financial penalties due to administrative errors while fraudsters potentially escaped accountability.
Kevin Hollinrake
Con
Thirsk and Malton
Mr. Hollinrake welcomed the debate on fraud, emphasising that Conservative Members are actively concerned about tackling fraud due to its impact on taxpayers and the fairness of the economy. He highlighted his company's repayment of a coronavirus business interruption loan without using it as an example of responsible lending practices. Mr. Hollinrake discussed Lord Agnew’s statement regarding the bounce back loan scheme, acknowledging that while mistakes were made in rolling out the scheme quickly, significant counter-fraud measures were put in place from the outset. He called for greater transparency about which banks issue loans and how effectively they recover loans to prevent fraud. Mr. Hollinrake also suggested introducing an economic crime Bill to extend corporate liability to individuals, reform Companies House to include money laundering checks, and enhance whistleblower protections to better uncover and deter economic crime.
Ian Lavery
Lab
Blyth and Ashington
The Tories cannot be trusted with taxpayers’ money due to £8.7 billion in PPE losses, fraud of £29 billion annually across Government, £4.3 billion lost under covid support schemes, and £3.5 billion in contracts awarded to Tory-linked firms, implicating senior Ministers.
Agrees that waste identified properly could have funded hospital projects such as the one cancelled by the 2010 Government for Mitcham and Morden.
Mitcham and Morden
On the Chancellor's watch, £4.3 billion of covid business support has been stolen; HMRC warned these schemes would be targets; 8.7% of furlough payments, 8.5% eat out to help out scheme, and 2.5% freelancers/entrepreneurs support was lost to fraudsters. Greensill Capital fraud involved £400 million loan guarantee funds from the British Business Bank backed by taxpayers' money.
Alex Cunningham
Lab
Stockton North
The speech criticises the Conservative-led Tees Valley Combined Authority for handing over majority shares of Teesworks to Tory donors without proper procurement or open tendering processes. It highlights concerns about cronyism, transparency in public spending and decision-making processes, and questions the future benefits for taxpayers from the site's profits. The MP also raises issues regarding job losses due to Conservative government policies and lack of transparency in levelling-up initiatives.
Jessica Morden
Lab
Newport East
The Department of Health was not alone in squandering taxpayers' money. The Ministry of Defence wasted £13 billion since 2010 on failed procurement projects, and the Ministry of Justice wasted around £240 million in the last year. The Public Accounts Committee concluded that the Ministry of Defence procurement system is broken and repeatedly wasting taxpayers’ money. Similarly, the Department for Work and Pensions allowed universal credit fraud to spiral during the pandemic, losing more than £8 billion. The Chancellor has decided to write off £4.3 billion of funds allocated to coronavirus help schemes, an amount equivalent to half the annual policing bill or twice the whole towns fund. This carelessness, incompetence, and cronyism exacerbate the cost of living crisis.
Christine Jardine
Lib Dem
Edinburgh West
I thank the Labour Front Bench for calling this debate. It is a disgrace that billions of pounds have been wasted on equipment that was not needed during the pandemic, while emergency services cried out for proper personal protective equipment. The Government's support for the pursuit of taxpayers who followed rules and faced bankruptcy due to retrospective changes in law is an affront to honest, hard-working individuals. There should be no tolerance for those who take money from the taxpayer fraudulently at a time of national crisis.
Paula Barker
Lab
Liverpool Wavertree
The MP criticises the Government's handling of contracts during the pandemic, noting that companies with no track record or experience received contracts worth hundreds of millions. She also highlights the failure in track and trace costing £37 billion and consultants paid excessively high daily rates. The exclusion of 3 million self-employed taxpayers from support is seen as hypocritical when fraud concerns are raised.
Peter Grant
SNP
Glasgow Cathcart
Compliments the shadow Chancellor for her opening speech and highlights that serious questions are being raised about failings in both the current government and machinery of government. Criticises the government for not holding itself accountable when it gets things wrong, pointing to examples where publicising problems and embarrassing those responsible could have led to better outcomes. Mentions specific instances of overspending and inefficiency across various departments such as defence nuclear infrastructure, national law enforcement data programme, green homes grant voucher scheme, and HS2. Emphasises the need for a culture change that accepts waste is unacceptable and highlights the importance of whistleblowing in preventing financial crime. Criticises the government's response to the Standards Committee findings and urges decent people on the Conservative benches to step up and address corruption.
Emma Hardy
Lab
Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice
Ms Emma Hardy highlighted the significant increase in economic crime since 2019, noting a 36% rise in fraud offences and a 51% increase in financial investment fraud according to Action Fraud data. She stressed the emotional toll of such crimes on individuals. She cited Lord Agnew's statement that fraud in government is rampant and pointed out the inefficiencies within Companies House which has been under-resourced since at least 2014. Hardy called for urgent reforms, including a register of overseas interests, an economic crime Bill, accelerated reform of Companies House with enhanced investigative capabilities, and implementation of all recommendations from the Russia report.
Rachel Hopkins
Lab
Luton South
The Conservative Government's track record of wasting public money and failing to deliver value for money is highlighted, with £4.3 billion written off due to fraud in covid business support schemes. This waste equates to the total 2022-23 combined planned spending of three major departments and is more than the entirety of the towns fund or levelling-up fund. Rachel Hopkins emphasises the need for prudent public spending, given that only £1 out of every £4 lost in fraud is expected to be recovered. She also points out the waste across various areas like defence procurement (£13 billion), PPE purchases (£2.8 billion), and public sector pension reforms (£17 billion). Independent organisations such as RUSI highlight ‘indifference and negligence’ at the heart of government, while the British Business Bank noted that the bounce back loans scheme was vulnerable to abuse by organised crime.
Pat McFadden
Lab
Wolverhampton South East
Government actions have resulted in significant losses, including £8.7 billion in PPE and £4.3 billion from grants and loans, highlighting a lack of accountability and basic checks. The debate calls for an economic crime Bill to address fraud and mismanagement, with emphasis on the need for registration of overseas entities and reforming Companies House.
John Glen
Con
Salisbury
The Government is united in tackling fraud and waste. During the pandemic, over £400 billion was rapidly unleashed to protect jobs and businesses. The bounce back loans helped 1.5 million businesses through the crisis, but there were delays in rolling out support schemes due to the need for affordability checks by banks. Over £2.2 billion of potentially fraudulent loan applications were blocked through up-front checks. HMRC has invested over £100 million in a taxpayer protection taskforce and recovered over £500 million from fraud. The Government is committed to tackling economic crime with additional funding and reforms, including an extra £63 million for the Home Office.
Asked if there were any mentions in Hansard about levels of fraud expected in support schemes during the pandemic.
Inquired how rogue company directors with false names or incorrect addresses would be pursued by the Government.
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