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P&O Ferries

17 March 2022

Lead MP

Robert Courts

Debate Type

Ministerial Statement

At a Glance

Robert Courts raised concerns about p&o ferries in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.

How the Debate Unfolded

MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:

Government Statement

Robert Courts

EconomyTaxationEmploymentForeign AffairsBenefits & WelfareParliamentary Procedure

Government Statement

Mr Deputy Speaker, with permission I would like to make a statement about the developing issue with P&O Ferries. Earlier today, P&O announced its decision to make around 800 seafarers redundant on several routes across the UK and will suspend services for approximately a week to ten days while it locates new crew. The affected routes include Dover to Calais, Larne to Cairnryan, Dublin to Liverpool, and Hull to Rotterdam. DFDS is stepping in to provide alternative services for passengers with valid tickets. I have asked my officials to liaise with the Kent Resilience Forum and the Cabinet Office to manage traffic in Kent over the coming days while P&O works to restore services. The Dover TAP has been activated, although there are some queuing issues on Jubilee Way expected to reduce over the afternoon. We have sufficient capacity to handle the temporary loss of these P&O ferries according to modelling data. I am extremely concerned and angry at the way workers have been treated today by P&O, including being given zero notice and escorted off their ships with immediate effect while cheaper alternatives were taking up their roles. My Department will liaise closely with counterparts in the Department for Work and Pensions to ensure that workers are signposted to the most relevant support.

Louise Haigh Lab

Sheffield Heeley

Question

The MP's question or point. Include their concern, local impact, or criticism. 2-4 sentences.

Minister reply

I thank the hon. Member for her comments and express sympathy with affected workers. I have asked officials to review contracts that may exist and will speak to unions this afternoon. This is a fast-moving situation; we are reviewing it as it develops, considering whether there is anything within our power to do in particular circumstances.

Huw Merriman Con

Bexhill and Battle

Question

Will the Government do everything within their power and influence, including tabling emergency legislation if necessary, to ensure that this appalling employment transaction cannot be completed?

Minister reply

I will review what arrangements exist as we go forward, working with all Government Departments to consider relationships with P&O. I can commit myself to trying to see whether there is anything within my power to do in the particular circumstances.

Gavin Newlands SNP

Paisley and Renfrewshire North

Question

Will the Minister support the staff who remain aboard P&O vessels, call on P&O to end its attempts to forcibly remove staff members, agree that P&O’s plan is reckless and unsafe, ask if there was any discussion between the Prime Minister and the Dubai Government about P&O, and address whether UK employment law needs intervention?

Minister reply

I urge employers to speak to their employees and engage with unions. Safety regulations must be applied no matter who crews a vessel. We will look across Government and uphold workers’ rights that are clear in law.

Natalie Elphicke Con

Dover

Question

Does my hon. Friend agree that the way in which P&O Ferries and DP World have acted is shabby, disgraceful and utterly unacceptable? They have mistreated 600 loyal workers in Dover and in addition to this, they have brought traffic disruption and put at risk the economy and the trade routes through it. Will he meet me to discuss what more can be done to hold DP World and P&O Ferries to account for their disgraceful behaviour?

Minister reply

I thank my hon. Friend for speaking out so powerfully and forcefully on behalf of her constituents, who will be anguished, hurt and distraught at the news they have been given today. She speaks for them and I thank her for doing so. I will of course meet her; I will meet any hon. or right hon. Member from anywhere across the House to discuss any concerns that they or their constituents might have. My hon. Friend asks me whether I agree that the way in which P&O has behaved is unacceptable? Yes, it is unacceptable.

Rosie Duffield Ind

Canterbury

Question

Does the Minister acknowledge that my constituency of Canterbury, and east Kent as a whole, will be particularly affected by today’s shocking news? What urgent support will the Government give to all those affected locally, including the hundreds of P&O workers who have been treated disgracefully, as we have just heard, and who are now facing no pay packet at all in the face of the soaring cost of living? They do not want a work coach; they just want their jobs back. That is not to mention the beleaguered residents of east Kent, who will yet again have to bear the brunt of serious disruption to our daily lives. I am glad to hear that the Minister will meet MPs across east Kent; that needs to be done urgently.

Minister reply

I thank the hon. Member for speaking out and making her constituents’ understandable anguish so clear in this place. That has been entirely heard by me and I share it. She speaks with anger, and I have expressed that anger in person to P&O today, because of the effect that this news will be having on people living in her constituency and elsewhere, particularly at a time that is already causing much uncertainty for many people. I would be delighted to meet her and any other Members who would like to meet me to discuss what we might be able to do.

John Hayes Con

South Holland and The Deepings

Question

When I was the shipping Minister, I oversaw the maritime growth study that built on the sector’s success. At its heart was the development of skills to build an even stronger merchant navy. This capricious, careless, callous decision by P&O flies in the face of all that. Will my hon. Friend work with my old friends in the maritime sector, the RMT and others to recover any moneys granted to P&O during the pandemic and to ensure it reverses its decision? I will not let anyone tell me this is the free market. The free market put little girls in factories and boys down mines, and it put both at risk on the high seas. We thought those dark days had gone. P&O is either too dim to see it or too dastardly to know it.

Minister reply

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right about the skills that have been demonstrated by extraordinary British seafarers over many years. This is key to the Government’s vision of what we want to achieve, and it is particularly important to me personally. We remain committed to doing what we can to support seafarers, and all the strategies the House has heard me talk about, from Maritime 2050 onwards, remain the case.

Kim Johnson Lab

Liverpool Riverside

Question

As the MP for Liverpool, Riverside, I am disgusted by the actions of P&O today. Liverpool is one of the routes that will be affected by this action, and it is another example of fire and rehire by a despicable employer. Why have this Government stood by and ignored it? Actions speak louder than words, Minister, so let us take some decisive action against P&O.

Minister reply

I entirely understand the hon. Lady’s anger on behalf of her constituents. I am acutely aware that they will be affected. I caution her that we do not know all the circumstances yet. We do not know whether this is a fire-and-rehire situation or something else.

Peter Gibson Con

Stanhope

Question

I thank my hon. Friend for coming to the House so swiftly. We are all shocked, outraged and appalled by the treatment of P&O staff, and I welcome his condemnation of these dreadful employment practices. Will he continue to update the House on this unfolding situation?

Minister reply

Yes. I am acutely conscious that there are some details I have not been able to give to the House today because the situation is evolving, and there are some things that we do not know and I do not know. As and when I do know, of course I will give the required information, either verbally or in some other way.

Diana R. Johnson Lab

Kingston upon Hull North

Question

I speak on behalf of my hon. Friends the Members for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) and for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Emma Hardy) and the people of Hull, who stand united tonight in our utter disgust at what has happened to the seafarers who have been sacked by P&O. It is simply a lie that P&O must sack 800 British workers to survive. P&O paid out £270 million to shareholders last year while taking furlough money from taxpayers. The Government have to be clear about whom they back. They cannot just say this is a commercial decision. This is a choice between predatory employers that are sacking workers on Zoom in their levelling-down race to the bottom and our loyal, hard-working UK workers who are fighting for their jobs. Will the Minister instruct Dubai-based DP World to stand down the replacement crews, send their security muscle home and reinstate immediately those who have been sacked?

Minister reply

I thank the right hon. Lady for speaking on behalf of Hull and the hon. Members for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) and for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Emma Hardy) to make their voices heard. Her question, of itself, shows the importance of the maritime sector to the entirety of our United Kingdom. There are hon. and right hon. Members from every corner of our United Kingdom expressing their anguish on behalf of their constituents and themselves, and she is right that furlough money will have been available to P&O.

Peter Bone Con

Wellingborough

Question

My background is in the travel industry and this is not how the travel industry behaves. P&O is a great British company, but can the Minister make it clear that there is a difference between P&O Ferries and P&O Cruises? P&O Cruises has nothing to do with this disgraceful incident. If the parent company of P&O Ferries has made British workers redundant to replace them with agency workers and then in a week’s time expects to carry on as normal, the British public will not travel with it in any case, but surely the Minister should suspend its licences.

Minister reply

I thank my hon. Friend for his expertise. He is absolutely right about the values of the wonderful travel industry that we have across the whole of the maritime, aviation, cruise and wider travel sector. His point about the distinction between P&O Ferries and P&O Cruises is accurate; they are separate entities and the two are not connected.

Karin Smyth Lab

Bristol South

Question

We hear a lot of anger and sympathy from the Minister, but he is from the Government and the clue is in the title—they need to govern and take some action. We have not heard about any action whatsoever. It would be helpful to hear more from him on that. We have just been discussing St Patrick’s Day and our relationships with Ireland. Has he had any discussions with the Irish Government or with Members in the Northern Ireland Assembly about the impact on both Northern Ireland and Irish trade?

Minister reply

I understand the points that the hon. Lady makes. I am also keen to stress that I have come to the House as quickly as I can to make a statement, which means that I have not had that much time to act. I have already spoken to the management of P&O—I made sure I did that—and I have asked my officials to undertake a number of actions so that I understand the wider system that exists.

Matthew Offord Con

Hendon

Question

This afternoon, I have heard people talk about British employment law and discussing this with other Governments overseas. However, the legislation that covers this area is simply the maritime labour convention, an international convention that applies not only to vessels ordinarily engaged in trade, but where a vessel is operating under the flag of a country that has ratified the MLC, which the UK has, or it is operating in the waters of a country that has ratified the MLC. That ensures that there are terms and conditions for seafarers, including those who may not be part of the navigation team on the ship; it applies to everyone, including on issues such as repatriation. Will P&O or indeed DP World be repatriating the crew and everyone on the ship? Will that be paid for by P&O? Alternatively, it can be paid for by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. If it is, will the Minister ensure that that money is repaid back to the British taxpayer?

Minister reply

My hon. Friend raises a number of important issues. There are different legal regimes applying here, and things depend on which one is applying. One is employment rights, which we have referred to, but he is right to say that there is also the MLC. This will depend upon what circumstance we are looking at. It is not entirely clear exactly what has happened. I will continue to look at that. I would expect that any ramifications that arise because of decisions taken by P&O would be ones that it would put right and not look to the Government to do so.

Mike Amesbury Lab

Worcester

Question

P&O Ferries’ actions today, in sacking 800 workers via Zoom, are despicable and disgraceful, as has been said by Members from right across the Chamber. Of course we now need deeds, not just words. Some £270 million was paid in dividends and about £15 million paid in furlough. We need some teeth there. Those workers should be reinstated and that requires ministerial intervention. The hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) referred to the arrangement with licences—well, let us get on with it and show solidarity with those in the RMT—National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers—and all their families.

Minister reply

The hon. Member is right that the behaviour we have seen today is unacceptable. I will be meeting the RMT later to hear what it has to say, and I will work constructively with it to see whether there is anything that I can do in support. He asks us to think about those affected and their families, and I of course entirely agree. I will talk to colleagues across Government and speak to the unions and those affected to see whether there are any further steps that we can take.

Kieran Mullan Con

Bexhill and Battle

Question

I join other Members in saying that what has happened today is completely unacceptable. On the face of it, it also seems to me to be potentially unlawful, although I understand why the Minister will not want to say at this point whether he shares that view. I also understand that in the discussions that have already taken place today there has been doubt about what law applies, in relation not just to the individual workers but the company’s obligation to notify the Government when it comes to redundancies. When the Minister has a better understanding of the legal obligations to the workers and to the Government, will he update the House so that we can take an informed view as to whether the company has potentially broken the law?

Minister reply

The important thing to understand is that maritime contracts can often be quite complicated. Different contracts can apply for different seafarers at different times. I do not want to be in a position where anybody is looking to me for legal advice from the Dispatch Box. That is not my role as a Minister. I urge everybody to obtain their own independent legal advice so that they can take any steps that are necessary. It is for lawyers to provide that assistance, not Ministers.

Barry Gardiner Lab

Brent North

Question

For how long are the Government prepared to allow companies such as P&O to treat loyal workers with contempt while they leach off the UK taxpayer? The Minister will know that there is a £146 million deficit in the pension fund for P&O retirees, yet P&O’s owners, DP World, just spent £147 million on sponsoring the European golf tour. After taking £10 million from taxpayers for furlough and demanding a further £150 million from the public purse to keep its operations going, the company paid out £270 million to shareholders in dividends and is now trying to fire 800 loyal workers. Does the Minister accept that P&O is taking him and the Treasury for fools? Does he regret the Government’s failure to back the measures in my private Member’s Bill that would have prevented these 800 seafarers from being treated so disgracefully?

Minister reply

As I have said, we need to take stock of the situation as we understand it. The hon. Gentleman referred to fire and rehire; this may not be a fire and rehire situation—

Grahame Morris Lab

Easington

Question

I thank the Minister for coming to the House to make this statement and compliment him on the tone with which he delivered it, but the Government clearly must do more to protect British workers. He mentioned 800 redundancies, but the jobs are not redundant: the reality is that those 800 British-based seafarers are going to be replaced with 800 overseas seafarers who will work for cheaper rates. It is an absolute and utter disgrace. People anticipate that the Minister and his Government will do something about this to prevent it from happening again in future. If they do not, other employers—such as Heathrow airport or anyone else—could go down a similar route. Did the Prime Minister discuss P&O Ferries’ plans with anyone from Dubai-based DP World during his recent trip?

Minister reply

The hon. Member is quite right to draw attention to the fact that we have and will continue to have a need for seafarers. We are a maritime nation and we depend on such links for connections in respect of people as well as in respect of freight. The hon. Member is of course right about that. I am passionate about championing British seafarers, about their skills and about ensuring that more people have the ability to benefit from a fascinating, rewarding and enjoyable career. I will continue to work with my colleagues to see what more can be done on that.

Christine Jardine Lib Dem

Edinburgh West

Question

I, too, thank the Minister for coming to the House on this matter and for the tone that he has adopted. I am sure that we all share the feelings that this is completely despicable and unacceptable behaviour by the company. Rather than just signposting people to help, have the Government considered taking this company into public ownership, in the way that they have with previous companies, such as railway or aviation companies, to ensure that the jobs are protected and that our vital transport link with the continent is protected? Have the Government considered that and if not, why not?

Minister reply

The hon. Lady is not drawing direct comparisons. As I understand it, this is not a company that is at risk of immediately ceasing operations, so the parallel she seeks to draw is not entirely accurate. I can be absolutely clear that, while commercial decisions have to be taken by companies, they should engage with people, they should consult, they should discuss things with them, and, at all times, they should treat them with the respect that they deserve.

Navendu Mishra Lab

Stockport

Question

The news today is terrible for the workers and their families, and I pay tribute to them and to the RMT union. I notice that the Minister did not answer the question of my good friend, the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame Morris), regarding the Prime Minister being on tour in west Asia and being in the United Arab Emirates—DP World is based in the United Arab Emirates. Has the Prime Minister had a discussion with DP World or any of the proprietors regarding the situation? If not, why not? Does he also agree that it was short-sighted and unreasonable of the Government to block the private Member’s Bill of my hon. Friend the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) on banning fire and rehire?

Minister reply

The hon. Member will have noticed that this announcement was made only this morning, so, clearly, this is something that has come as a shock to the entire House. I hope that that clears up that matter for him.

Justin Madders Lab

Ellesmere Port and Bromborough

Question

I think that we can all agree that being sacked over Zoom with no notice and no consultation is barbaric. It also shows how broken our employment laws are in this country, because these people are being told that they are being made redundant when there is a group of workers waiting to replace them standing by the dockside. It is the fact that these workers are already in place that shows how pre-prepared and cynical this was. P&O had clearly been working on this for some time, so can the Minister tell us when it first informed the Government of its intentions?

Minister reply

The hon. Member is probably right that P&O had been considering this for some time. The Government was first informed of this yesterday evening.

Clive Efford Lab

Eltham

Question

Other trade unions will be looking on at this, thinking that it is P&O workers today, and, if this stands, it is their workers tomorrow. Some of us with long memories can remember other flashpoints in industrial relations, such as Grunwick and the miners’ strike, which became very big disputes indeed. We do not want that around our ports. The simple way to avoid that and to avoid seeing workers being forced aside for the police to allow people through so that P&O can continue business as usual is to take business away from P&O at our ports. Have the Government considered that?

Minister reply

As I said when I answered the shadow Transport Secretary, I have asked my officials to understand what level of contractual engagement Government have with P&O. I do not yet have that information, but that is under way as we speak. None the less, the hon. Gentleman draws a wider point around the importance of engagement. We do not want to see disruption, and we do not want to see any difficulties with industrial relations that cause wider problems. I have been absolutely clear that the way that workers have been treated today is absolutely unacceptable. P&O should have spoken to the unions. I have told it that it should be speaking to the unions. I do not think that it has done so, but I will certainly be doing so later today.

Rachael Maskell Lab Co-op

York Central

Question

Today DP World has inflicted the ultimate pain on workers by sacking them on the spot. They are safety-critical workers in a safety-critical industry; they cannot simply be replaced. Will the Minister ensure that no ship sails with agency staff crewing it in the future? Will he ensure that he works with Nautilus and the RMT so that our shipping industry is put in a safer space than it is in today?

Minister reply

I thank the hon. Lady for rightly drawing attention to the critical importance of safety. As I said earlier, there are no two ways about safety: any ship sailing has to be safe. I have total confidence in those at the Maritime and Coastguard Agency who regulate maritime safety. That will continue to be the case and they will continue to ensure safety in the same way they always do. I have total confidence that that is the case, no matter who is crewing which vessel under which company at any one time. She asks whether I will work closely with the RMT and Nautilus. Yes—I am due to meet them after this statement, and I will listen to what they have to say, but of course at any time I will seek to work closely with the unions and all right hon. and hon. Members.

Richard Burgon Lab

Leeds East

Question

First, I express solidarity with the RMT and Nautilus workers refusing to leave their ships. Will the Minister properly and fully condemn the use of balaclava-wearing, handcuff-trained security in any forcible removal of workers? It is like going back to Victorian times. Secondly, will the Government use their full powers to prevent P&O ferries from using British waters at all until this matter is justly resolved?

Minister reply

I have been absolutely clear about my view of the way that workers have been treated today. I cannot comment on specific circumstances until I have had them confirmed—I have seen things reported on social media, as has the hon. Gentleman—but I have been clear that the way workers have been treated is absolutely unacceptable.

Shadow Comment

Louise Haigh

Shadow Comment

The action taken by P&O Ferries today is a national scandal—a betrayal of the workers who have kept this country stocked throughout the pandemic. Workers are now left wondering how they will put food on their families’ tables after being informed through a pre-recorded video without face-to-face communication and escorted off their ships with handcuff-trained security staff, some wearing balaclavas. The management did not even have the decency to consult or give notice. This Dubai-owned company received millions of pounds of taxpayers' money during the pandemic and its profits soared by 52% in the first half of 2021. We need a clear, unequivocal statement from the Government that overseas conglomerates cannot be given free rein to sack workers here at the click of a button. The Minister must review any contract or licence with P&O or DP World and consider terminating contracts if necessary. Urgent talks with P&O and unions are required immediately to safeguard jobs.

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