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Legal Migration
04 December 2023
Lead MP
James Cleverly
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
ImmigrationAsylum & RefugeesEconomyTaxationEmployment
Other Contributors: 42
At a Glance
James Cleverly raised concerns about legal migration in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The Home Secretary, James Cleverly, announced a five-point plan to curb immigration abuses and reduce net migration significantly. He stated that the recent ONS figures show a provisional estimate of net migration for the year ending June 2023 at 672,000, which is lower than the previous year but still too high. The measures include ending abuse of health and care visas by prohibiting dependants from accompanying workers; increasing the skilled worker earnings threshold to £38,700; scrapping cut-price shortage labour from overseas by reforming the shortage occupations list; raising family visa income requirements; and banning most student dependents unless they are on postgraduate research programmes. The total package will reduce future migration numbers by around 300,000 compared to last year. He also highlighted investments in workforce training and employment support for British workers.
Yvette Cooper
Lab
Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley
Question
The shadow Home Secretary criticised the Government's chaotic approach to immigration policy, highlighting its failures on social care worker recruitment, engineering apprenticeships, construction skills shortages, and delays in the asylum system. She questioned where the workforce plan is for these areas and asked if the Migration Advisory Committee had advised on these policies.
Minister reply
The minister did not provide a direct answer to this question but emphasised the Government's commitment to reducing legal migration and addressing economic issues through measures like increasing the skilled worker earnings threshold, raising family visa income requirements, and reforming the shortage occupations list.
Yvette Cooper
Lab
Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley
Question
I thank the Home Secretary for advance sight of the statement. Today’s statement is an admission of years of total failure by this Conservative Government—failure on the immigration system and failure on the economy... But there needs to be a proper plan...
Minister reply
I was waiting for the policy announcement from the Labour party, and sadly I am still waiting. The right hon. Lady talks about skills training... When I was at the Dispatch Box in the days after my appointment, I said that Labour had a plan for migration...
Damian Green
Con
Ashford
Question
I am very pleased to welcome about four and a half of the five announcements that my right hon. Friend has made... However, may I ask him about the health and care visa, and particularly about the inability of people to bring dependants with them? How many care workers does he think will be deterred by that?
Minister reply
My right hon. Friend asks an important question. My right hon. Friend the Immigration Minister and I have crunched the numbers in great detail... Although an individual with a family might be dissuaded because of the restrictions on family members, someone who does not have those family commitments will almost certainly be willing to put themselves forward...
Chris Stephens
SNP
Glasgow North West
Question
The statement will be judged on whether it is pandering to the right wing of the Home Secretary’s party or addressing the needs of the economy... On the 120,000 dependants figure, can the Home Secretary tell me how many of them are children? Is he suggesting that children should be going into work?
Minister reply
The point about dependants is an incredibly important one. If the hon. Gentleman had listened carefully to the answer I gave to my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashford, I made the point that we do not envisage a reduction in the number of people working in the care sector...
Jacob Rees-Mogg
Con
North East Somerset
Question
Does my right hon. Friend think it would be a good idea to have a cap on the number coming in?
Minister reply
Although I understand the calls for a cap, in practical terms, managing a cap is difficult... We also recognise that not every single individual is the same—a child could count as one person against a cap, as would an investor who may bring a huge number of jobs—and we want a difference between the two to be possible.
Diana R. Johnson
Lab
Kingston upon Hull North and Cottingham
Question
As the Home Affairs Committee is keen to scrutinise the policies of the Home Office, Diana R. Johnson asked for an assurance that when the Immigration Minister appears before the committee next week, they will have full evidence base and economic impact data for today's policy announcements.
Minister reply
The Immigration Minister will be fully prepared with facts and figures.
Question
John Redwood suggested that training more people at home and paying them more is the right model for addressing labour shortages in scarcity occupations, similar to what was done for drivers.
Minister reply
The proposals support a high-skilled, high-productivity, high-wage economy, which is different from Labour's approach.
Tim Farron
Lib Dem
Westmorland and Lonsdale
Question
Tim Farron questioned the Home Secretary about meeting with Lake District hospitality industry workers or managers to address the workforce crisis in the area, which is a £3.5 billion industry visited by 20 million people annually.
Minister reply
The Immigration Minister met with the Lake District Tourist Board and pointed out that they have analysed figures showing significant employment of local people in hospitality.
Question
Tim Loughton welcomed most proposals, particularly those addressing dependant visas which have increased sevenfold since 2020, especially in care and health sectors. He asked about measures to ensure enforcement and prevent abuses.
Minister reply
They are putting forward plans that support the economy, healthcare sector, and British people, ensuring registered care homes with CQC.
Neil Coyle
Lab
Bermondsey and Old Southwark
Question
Neil Coyle asked which business groups or trade associations supported the proposals and were involved in developing them.
Minister reply
They work extensively with businesses to ensure employee needs are met while supporting a high-skilled, high-wage economy.
Question
George Eustice questioned whether skills-based immigration policy prioritises unnecessary sectors like banking and law over essential care workers.
Minister reply
The figures show that the majority of recent immigrants are in lower-skilled jobs, contrary to George's assessment.
Question
Joanna Cherry expressed concerns about forcing overseas care workers with dependent children abroad to leave.
Minister reply
No one is being forced to do anything; if they wish to come here, they must abide by the rules.
Question
Simon Clarke welcomed the announcement and suggested an annual migration budget for accountability in the House.
Minister reply
They are taking action on housing shortages and school places, reflecting a commitment to take back control of immigration.
Question
Alex Cunningham asked how the new payroll system will be applied to those already here and about the Home Secretary's awareness of foreign workers being paid 20% less than UK workers.
Minister reply
The new system will be brought in next year without disadvantaging current workers; they aim for a high-skilled, high-wage economy.
Question
Kelly Tolhurst suggested considering an annual review to adjust requirements and rules.
Minister reply
Adjustments are made based on economic and social needs, as promised to take back control of immigration.
Rachael Maskell
Lab Co-op
York Central
Question
Rachael Maskell questioned the impact of the policies on health and care workers, given a global shortage.
Minister reply
They do not envision a reduction in demand despite large applicant numbers originally envisaged.
Question
Chris Grayling congratulated his right hon. Friend on the package and asked to revisit the automatic assumption that students have a right to stay after studying.
Minister reply
They want to ensure universities maintain their reputation for quality by ensuring global brightest and best choose to come study and work here.
Alistair Carmichael
Lib Dem
Orkney and Shetland
Question
Since the crew for fishing vessels was added to the shortage occupation list by the Government, only a handful of visas have been granted. That is not because of the earnings threshold—most would meet that requirement comfortably—but because of the requirement for the English language test at level B1. Why does the Home Secretary think that B1 is an appropriate level for somebody working on a fishing boat?
Minister reply
An inability to speak English would hamper anybody, and it really is entirely reasonable to expect people coming here to work to be able to do so.
Question
This year, vacancies in adult social care fell a little—the figure now stands at a “mere” 152,000—which was due to a large increase in the number of care workers coming to this country as part of the shortage occupations list. The Library tells me that, as of September, there were 121,000 vacancies in the NHS. What exact changes does the Home Secretary envisage making to the shortage occupations list? Can he please show the workings-out of the changes to family arrangements, for which he said that he has crunched the numbers with the Immigration Minister? Above all, who did Ministers consult in the health and care sector ahead of today’s legal migration announcement?
Minister reply
We asked the Migration Advisory Committee to look into these things—that it why it exists—however my hon. Friend makes a very important point, which speaks to why we are tightening the system to prevent abuse. Anyone looking at the numbers will see that a significant number of people have come through the health and social care visa system over the last couple of years, yet we have lost them from health and social care. That is not what any of us needs or wants. The right thing to do is to ensure that those who come are genuinely employed in that sector, which is where we need them—that is the promise that they have made to us, and that we have made to them. Ensuring that that is the case is the right and fair thing to do.
Question
The Minister said: “Migration to this country is far too high and needs to come down.” But as others have said, so many of those who come to this country make a critical contribution to our employment sectors, no more so than by filling the gaping holes in our social care and health sector. I would be interested to hear the Minister’s response to Unison, the social care trade union, which says: “The care system would implode without migrant care staff.” Does he not agree that a better, more humane approach would be to fund local government to improve social care pay and conditions?
Minister reply
There we go again. As I have said, while the shadow Home Secretary says that immigration numbers are too high, each and every one of her Back Benchers disagrees with any action to deal with it. We have got to bring these numbers down, we have committed to do so, and we have put forward a thoughtful plan, which takes into consideration the needs of the health and social care sectors.
Question
I think the howls of outrage from the Opposition Benches highlight the inconsistency in Labour’s position, given that it was the party that wanted to overturn the referendum and introduce unlimited free movement of labour. Does the Home Secretary agree that pressure from migration puts pressure on local families and young people who want to buy or rent their own house, and will he consider that every time he grants more visas for people to come to this country?
Minister reply
This is an incredibly important point, and it is why control of immigration is so important. We are a generous country. We have demonstrated that generosity time and time again, whether it be towards the Ugandan Asians, people from west Africa, people from Hong Kong or people from Ukraine. We are rightly proud, but it is also important that we prove that we are thoughtful about the implications for those who live here, whether they have lived here for decades, for years, or for generations. That is why it is right that we have put forward these proposals, which are carefully calibrated to support our economy and our health and social care needs, but also to bring down those figures.
Tan Dhesi
Lab
Slough
Question
The net migration figure is now 672,000—three times the level at the 19 general election, when the Conservatives promised to reduce it. Does the Home Secretary concede that the Tories have failed miserably on immigration policy, along with a whole host of other policies, and that that is why their time is now well and truly up?
Minister reply
No, I do not.
Edward Leigh
Con
Gainsborough
Question
I congratulate the Government on taking a thoroughly common-sense view in raising the threshold to £38,000—and I say that as a senior citizen member of the New Conservatives—but the Home Secretary said in his statement: “Those coming on health and social care visa routes will be exempt, so we can continue to bring in the healthcare workers on which our care sector and NHS rely.” What does that phrase mean? Will such action not drive a coach and horses through this measure? Surely the solution is for the care sector to pay proper wages.
Minister reply
We have recognised the recruitment challenge for domestic workers in the health and social care system, and we have made it clear on a number of occasions that we will not allow those extremely important public services, on which we rely, to be without the staff that they need. What we want to do is bring in the people who are employed in those sectors, but not the dependants whom they have typically brought with them. That will enable us to lower the headline numbers, which we have committed ourselves to doing, while protecting the health and social care sector, which we have also committed ourselves to doing.
Question
The Home Secretary has admitted several times that we are losing people from the health and social care sector, both domestic workers and people whom the Government have brought in, but he has said nothing about increasing pay, has he?
Minister reply
We have said over and over again that we are working towards a higher-productivity, higher-skilled, higher-wage employment sector, across all sectors of employment. What we have said is that the current visa regime has displaced workers, which is why we are changing it.
Question
The people of Stoke-on-Trent, North Kidsgrove and Talke will welcome today’s announcements from the Home Secretary and the Immigration Minister, while also recognising the faux outrage of Opposition Members who can talk tough through their rhetoric from the Front Bench. The squirming on the Back Benches of uncomfortableness when it comes to talking about immigration is something that I thoroughly enjoy, especially as we know that they wish to return free movement via the back door. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that future reviews will look to stopping the dependency route for those on one-year Masters by Research degree courses as well?
Minister reply
We have committed to doing a wider review of the higher education, post-graduate route, and I take my hon. Friend’s point on board. We have already taken action, but I commit to reviewing it, and once we have seen the outcome of the review, I will be able to update my hon. Friend and the House on the decisions that we make.
Layla Moran
Lib Dem
Oxford West and Abingdon
Question
A choice could have been made between protecting the flank against Reform UK and backing British business. I do not understand how the Home Secretary can think that the way to create jobs for local people is to starve sectors such as the science industry of, for example, the lab technicians required to drive what they need to do. How on earth does he think that anyone in Oxford West and Abingdon will be helped to get a job when the industries that employ them are not able to grow?
Minister reply
It would have been better had the hon. Lady listened to the points that were made about protecting the scientific community in and around Oxford by ensuring that we remain attractive to the global brightest and best, and protecting the people who need our protection in the health and social care sectors by ensuring that those sectors are staffed. The simple fact is, however, that we have committed ourselves to bringing these numbers down. What we are proposing will bring those numbers down, and will do so in a way that reinforces our commitment to a higher-skilled, more productive, higher-wage economy.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Question
Does the Home Secretary accept that, in order for any large-scale immigration policy to succeed, it is necessary for people to wish to integrate? What steps are the Government taking to ensure that there is a smooth path to integration for those large numbers of people who come here?
Minister reply
My right hon. Friend makes an incredibly important point. I replied earlier about the need for English language. If somebody is denied the ability to communicate in the country that they choose to call home, they will be permanently disadvantaged and find it harder to integrate. We want people to integrate; we want people to be and feel part of our communities. We want the communities that they move into to welcome them and to be confident that the immigration system of this country supports not only those new arrivals who choose to make this country their home but the people who already live here.
Justin Madders
Lab
Ellesmere Port and Bromborough
Question
After 13 years in power and seven years after we voted to leave the EU, I do not know why anyone would believe that this Government will reduce net migration in the way that is being claimed today. But if we assume the Home Secretary’s figures are right, net migration will still be higher than it was in 2019 when his party promised to reduce it. That is right, isn’t it?
Minister reply
The simple truth is that the British people have far more confidence in the party that campaigned to take back control of its immigration system, than they do in the party that would maintain free movement and whose contributions from the Opposition Benches have, unsurprisingly, been in opposition to the decisions that we are taking to bring down the numbers of net migration.
Steve Double
Con
St Ives
Question
Welcomes measures to stop abuse of health and care visa, mentions bogus care companies in Cornwall. Urges faster implementation.
Minister reply
Acknowledges abuses of the system; confirms actions are already underway with further reforms planned for spring.
Patrick Grady
Lab
Glasgow North
Question
Asks about steps to negotiate visa exchange programmes with EU and other countries, citing difficulty for people from Glasgow North to live/study/work in Europe post-Brexit.
Minister reply
Has negotiated youth mobility programmes; suggests Scottish National Party's income tax regime is driving migration south.
Lia Nici
Con
Great Grimsby
Question
Thanks ministers for listening, asks for quicker implementation and more conditionality regarding skill-shortage jobs.
Minister reply
Acknowledges need for good faith adherence to visa conditions; will take dim view of those who abuse hospitality.
Clive Efford
Lab
Eltham
Question
Questions the failure in reducing immigration to tens of thousands as promised, highlights backlog in asylum cases.
Minister reply
Increased pace of decision-making; made generous offers to people from Hong Kong and Ukraine.
Neil O'Brien
Con
Harborough
Question
Requests analysis on impact of package and reduction in student dependants, asks for transparency.
Minister reply
Will put estimates of the impact in the Library as requested.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
Concerns regarding fishing sector's need for foreign workers due to minimum income threshold and language requirements.
Minister reply
Will work with MAC to ensure viability of key industries, including the fishing industry.
Miriam Cates
Con
Newark
Question
Welcomes measures and highlights long-term structural weaknesses in economy masked by high immigration levels.
Minister reply
Focuses on increasing skills, productivity, investment to unlock economic potential.
Richard Drax
Con
South Dorset
Question
Commends tackling unsustainable issue; asks for assurance that future officials will answer basic questions.
Minister reply
Assures delivery of proposals with alacrity and at pace.
Caroline Johnson
Con
Sleaford and North Hykeham
Question
Welcomes statement on migration figures, asks if raising threshold to £38,000 will drive better conditions for domestic workforce.
Minister reply
Encourages businesses to invest in technology and people through super-deduction policies.
Lincoln
Question
Welcomes announcement on cutting net migration, suggests number of migrants should be proportionate to new homes, GPs, school places.
Minister reply
Seeks controlled immigration system with certainty for local government planners and communities.
Tom Hunt
Lab
City of Nottingham
Question
Welcoming the measures, MP Tom Hunt criticises the delay in their publication and calls for explicit demonstration that this time immigration control is different. He asks if the Home Secretary will commit to showing change to the public.
Minister reply
James Cleverly assures that discussions on these figures were held before the ONS figures release and states a commitment to working closely with other Departments to deliver the package, while acknowledging that an instant fix is unrealistic but committed to bringing immigration numbers down.
Bassetlaw
Question
MP Brendan Clarke-Smith thanks James Cleverly for his statement and highlights the desire of businesses in his constituency for skilled workers, expressing hope that new measures will not affect those seeking refuge or who do not represent a net benefit to the UK.
Minister reply
James Cleverly emphasises the need for immigrants to contribute positively to society and economy, stating conditions are being put in place for this purpose.
Rob Roberts
Con
Torbay
Question
Declaring an interest as chair of the APPG for the Philippines, Rob Roberts welcomes healthcare workers from the country and raises concerns about permanent residency costs, calling on James Cleverly to meet with representatives of the Philippine Nurses Association.
Minister reply
James Cleverly recognises the contributions of medical professionals from the Philippines, promising to use technology to fund wage increases in health and social care sectors. He agrees to speak with the MP and Filipino community representatives.
Shadow Comment
Yvette Cooper
Shadow Comment
The shadow Home Secretary, Yvette Cooper, criticised the Government's chaotic approach to immigration policy, noting that net migration has trebled since the last election despite promises to reduce it. She highlighted the failure of previous policies introduced by Conservative leaders, such as the 20% wage discount for shortage occupations and lower salary thresholds than recommended. The Labour Party called for a proper plan linking the immigration system with training requirements and workforce plans, which are lacking in the current statement. Cooper criticised the Government's failures on social care worker recruitment, engineering apprenticeships, construction skills shortages, and delays in the asylum system.
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