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Machetes: Consultation
18 April 2023
Lead MP
Chris Philp
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
Policing & ResourcesCrime & Law EnforcementNHSMental Health
Other Contributors: 25
At a Glance
Chris Philp raised concerns about machetes: consultation in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The minister announced new proposals to combat the use of certain types of machetes and large outdoor knives in crime, emphasising that these items do not have practical uses but are often used as weapons. Since 2019, over 90,000 knives and dangerous weapons have been removed from streets through various police actions, leading to a 38% reduction in violence since 2010. The government is consulting on banning the import, manufacture, sale, or supply of these specific machetes and large knives, as well as increasing penalties for selling prohibited offensive weapons to under-18s. Additional powers are proposed to enable police to seize, retain, and destroy bladed articles intended for criminal use. The consultation also seeks feedback on introducing a separate offence of possessing such weapons with intent to injure or cause fear of violence.
Nigel Mills
Con
Amber Valley
Question
What is the Government's view on banning all bladed weapons online? Will legislation be introduced for that?
Minister reply
The minister responded by explaining that they are consulting on whether to provide additional powers to enable police to seize, retain, and destroy bladed articles intended for criminal use. He emphasised that the proposals aim to go further than the existing Offensive Weapons Act 2019 but did not specify an online ban as part of the current consultation.
Diana Johnson
Lab
Kingston upon Hull North
Question
Can you clarify how these measures will address knife crime among children and young people, given that mental health services have been cut?
Minister reply
The minister acknowledged the importance of addressing root causes but highlighted the focus on tough enforcement. He noted the government’s investment in violence reduction units and hotspot policing initiatives to prevent youth from being drawn into criminal activities.
Sarah Jones
Lab
Croydon West
Question
The additional extracts were not in my copy of the statement either. Labour supports measures to ban zombie-style knives and machetes. Knife crime devastates lives and rips families apart, but this is too little, too late—a smokescreen to distract from the Government’s appalling record.
Minister reply
I certainly admire the shadow Minister’s sense of humour. Let me pick up some of the points she made. She asked about police numbers. As I have said, the figures that will be released on the 26th will show, I am confident, that we have more police officers than at any time in our country’s history, including more police officers than at any point in the time in office of the last Labour Government.
Mark Francois
Con
Rayleigh and Wickford
Question
If I can make a non-partisan point for a moment, the whole House knows that our late friend and colleague Sir David Amess was murdered with a bladed weapon, so I would like to pay tribute to his proactive successor, my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Anna Firth), for campaigning on this issue, evidently with some success. Can the Minister assure us that, on so-called zombie knives—many of which are now purchased online and some of which, I understand, we can only ban because of what is written on them, rather than what they can do—this new legislation will materially restrict the ability, and ideally end it, for people to buy those weapons online, either domestically or from abroad?
Minister reply
My right hon. Friend makes a very good point and is right to remind the House of our much-loved former colleague Sir David’s tragic death at the hands of a knife-wielding attacker. He asks two questions. First, yes, I can confirm that zombie knives that do not have any writing on them will be covered by the proposals.
Diana R. Johnson
Lab
Kingston upon Hull North and Cottingham
Question
I know that there is widespread concern about this issue on both sides of the House. In 2019, the Home Affairs Committee published a report on serious youth violence, following a 70% rise in knife crime over five years. The Home Office had failed to give the Committee at that time any assessment of how many young people were at risk of being involved in knife crime. The Committee called on the Government to treat this as a social emergency and warned them that the serious violence strategy was inadequate.
Minister reply
I thank the Select Committee Chair for her question. I do not accept that the previous initiatives have been unsuccessful. I have already pointed to the steady reduction in hospital admissions as a result of knife wounds and the steady reduction in violent offences, as measured by the crime survey for England and Wales.
James Daly
Con
Bury North
Question
Following a recent meeting with his local chief superintendent, James Daly highlighted that it is common for young people in Bury to carry knives and pointed out the lack of prosecution when they are stopped by police. He urged the Minister to ensure that all individuals found carrying knives are prosecuted.
Minister reply
Chris Philp agreed that laws need proper enforcement and committed to expecting the police to follow up on knife possession with prosecutions and appropriate custody or rehabilitative work as necessary.
Pat McFadden
Lab
Wolverhampton South East
Question
Pat McFadden cited a tragic case of his constituent Ronan Kanda, killed in a knife attack, to urge the Minister to expedite a ban on machete and similar knives sales.
Minister reply
Chris Philp thanked Pat McFadden for raising awareness about the issue and committed to proceeding as quickly as possible with secondary legislation following a seven-week consultation period. Primary legislation will follow in the next Session.
Anna Firth
Con
Cotswold
Question
Welcoming the announcement, Anna Firth urged for stricter measures against retailers and suggested a licensing scheme similar to gun licences to prevent circumvention of the law.
Minister reply
Chris Philp acknowledged Anna Firth's campaigning efforts and confirmed that retailers will face criminal charges if they sell machetes without an obvious legitimate purpose. Strict enforcement is intended.
Battersea
Question
Pointing to cuts in youth services, Marsha de Cordova questioned the lack of investment in resources for young people alongside banning weapons and asked why this would not be committed.
Minister reply
Chris Philp explained that certain zombie knives were already banned under the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 but was filling a gap identified by feedback. He also mentioned setting up the Youth Endowment Fund with £200 million for evidence-based activity and violence reduction units in target areas.
Eddie Hughes
Con
Walsall North
Question
Acknowledging Pete Madeley's campaign, Eddie Hughes noted his surprise at the lack of engagement from the Labour police and crime commissioner regarding recent knife crimes.
Minister reply
Chris Philp expressed shock over the west midlands PCC considering closing 20 police stations. He urged all PCCs to engage with their local communities.
Alistair Carmichael
Lib Dem
Orkney and Shetland
Question
Welcoming the Home Office statement, Alistair Carmichael doubted if the measures would shift the dial on reducing violent knife crime, instead asking when police numbers would be restored.
Minister reply
Chris Philp stated that while no single measure will solve the problem, these proposals could make a difference. He also confirmed figures about police numbers to be unveiled at 9.30 on 26 April.
Question
Urging for strict action, Stephen Metcalfe questioned why dangerous weapons can still be sold and used commonly, urging the Minister to take whatever measures necessary to remove these weapons from the streets.
Minister reply
Chris Philp agreed with every word of Stephen Metcalfe's statement.
Hilary Benn
Lab
Leeds South
Question
This is urgent. Last Sunday a 15-year-old boy was attacked with a machete in Leeds, and the previous month there was a fight involving machetes on the streets of Leeds. Hilary Benn welcomes these proposals but calls for them to be brought in quickly and comprehensively.
Minister reply
Chris Philp agrees that speed is important; he states that they will take forward measures through secondary legislation as quickly as possible, addressing loopholes through consultation.
Question
In 2018 an 18-year-old was killed by a gang in Gillingham; Rehman asks about licensing and registration systems for knives.
Minister reply
Chris Philp mentions the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 and proposes banning machetes and zombie knives completely, rather than introducing a licensing scheme.
Question
Lyn discusses poverty, drugs trade, exploitation of children by gangs, lack of youth services and mental health treatment in her constituency.
Minister reply
Chris Philp acknowledges social problems but mentions investment into mental health, the Youth Endowment Fund, and violence reduction units.
Louie French
Con
Old Bexley and Sidcup
Question
Concerns about knife crime under the Mayor of London; asks for review on introducing scan and search.
Minister reply
Chris Philp supports scan and search technology to detect knives discreetly as it has enormous potential in helping police identify more knives.
Jon Trickett
Lab
Normanton and Hemsworth
Question
Identifies a machete for under £11 available online and delivered tomorrow; discusses lack of youth services, mental health services, and community policing in villages.
Minister reply
Chris Philp mentions hiring extra officers to ensure visible police presence in cities, towns, and villages; addresses buying zombie knives through consultation and the Online Safety Bill.
Matt Vickers
Con
Stockton West
Question
Asks about encouraging wider use of stop and search; invites Minister to discuss issues occurring in Thornaby.
Minister reply
Chris Philp agrees with the importance of stop and search, mentioning it helps take between 350-400 knives off London streets monthly.
Chris Bryant
Lab
Rhondda and Ogmore
Question
Discusses John Rees' death involving a knife; raises concerns about lack of enforcement despite legislation, asking for prosecution figures since the 2019 Act.
Minister reply
Chris Philp agrees with the need to tackle issues comprehensively and mentions writing back with prosecution figures.
Taiwo Owatemi
Lab
Coventry North West
Question
Welcomes the announcement to tackle knife crime but criticises inadequate police numbers in Coventry and calls for investment in policing in the west midlands.
Minister reply
References measures such as the Youth Endowment Fund, violence reduction units, and Grip hotspot surge policing. Emphasises that the west midlands receives interventions due to issues there. Acknowledges individual forces may have chosen not to raise more funds through precept flexibility.
Clive Efford
Lab
Eltham and Chislehurst
Question
Welcomes the consultation but criticises the Conservative cuts of 21,000 police officers from 2015 to present. Questions where new police will be allocated and whether they will return to community policing.
Minister reply
States that the Metropolitan Police already has record numbers. Commissioner Sir Mark Rowley intends to focus on neighbourhood policing, with Brixton confirming an increase in neighbourhood policing units.
Question
Questions how recent ONS statistics showing a 76-year high number of people killed with knives fit into the Minister's presentation.
Minister reply
Acknowledges that total homicide has decreased slightly over the last three years, but focuses on knife-enabled homicides due to serious injuries caused by specific types of dangerous knives.
Andrew Slaughter
Lab
Hammersmith and Chiswick
Question
References research by University of Leicester that finds ordinary kitchen knives are commonly used in stabbing incidents. Asks if the Minister will engage with this work.
Minister reply
Acknowledges valid points but emphasises focus on dangerous knives causing serious injuries, expressing willingness to engage further.
Rachel Hopkins
Lab
Luton South and South Bedfordshire
Question
Mourns a recent stabbing death in Luton. Criticises £1 billion cut from youth services and questions trust in prevention efforts.
Minister reply
Extends condolences, references significant investment through the Youth Endowment Fund, violence reduction units, and notes violent crime has decreased by 38% since 2010.
Shadow Comment
Sarah Jones
Shadow Comment
The shadow minister criticised the government's response as inadequate, noting that knife crime has risen by 70% since 2015 and calling attention to significant increases in various regions. She highlighted previous pledges made regarding bans on zombie knives and criticised the Home Office for failing to enforce existing laws against selling knives to under-18s. The shadow minister also questioned the effectiveness of current measures due to cuts in police funding, mental health services, and youth work. Labour proposed a strategy to halve knife crime within 10 years.
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