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Civil Service Impartiality
06 March 2023
Lead MP
Jeremy Quin
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
EmploymentParliamentary ProcedureStandards & Ethics
Other Contributors: 45
At a Glance
Jeremy Quin raised concerns about civil service impartiality in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
I confirm that Sue Grey, a second permanent secretary to the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and the Cabinet Office, resigned from her position on Thursday 2 March. The Labour Party subsequently offered her the role of chief of staff to the Leader of the Opposition. This situation is unprecedented as it involves a serving permanent secretary resigning to take up a senior position with the opposition party. The Cabinet Office is investigating this matter and will provide an update later. According to civil service rules, including the code on impartiality, business appointments process managed by ACOBA, guidance on outside interests, and contacts between civil servants and Opposition parties, approval must be obtained prior to taking up such a job offer. I emphasise that maintaining civil service impartiality is constitutionally vital for effective governance.
Robert Buckland
Con
Con
Question
Echoing the minister's comments, I express disappointment about Sue Grey’s resignation. Trust and impartiality are essential for civil service integrity since at least the Northcote-Trevelyan report of 1854. If the Labour party is serious about power, they must respect these principles. Will this appointment be approved by ACOBA with a waiting period of three months to two years? Is there a lobbying prohibition and restriction on official information passing?
Minister reply
ACOBA advises on appointments for permanent secretaries with a standard waiting period of three months to two years. ACOBA also recommends no appointment if necessary, and civil servants must uphold confidentiality. The Labour party should follow ACOBA's advice or risk further undermining their credibility.
Angela Rayner
Lab
Ashton-under-Lyne
Question
Why would a senior civil servant known for integrity join the Opposition with a real plan rather than the tired, washed-up Conservative Government? This debate speaks more to Conservative delusions. The true threat to impartiality is the Conservatives’ debasing of public life standards over ten years.
Minister reply
The Labour party's refusal to provide details about meetings between Sue Grey and Opposition members suggests they are hiding something, likely due to their need for advisers given their recent tone in Parliament.
William Wragg
Con
Hazel Grove
Question
Expressed confidence in Lord Pickles and the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments, asked about statutory underpinning of ACOBA rulings, and questioned impugning civil service for political bias.
Minister reply
Stated support for civil service standards, acknowledged ongoing process from recommendations by PACAC, Sir Nigel Boardman, and the Committee on Standards in Public Life, expected to share a Government response soon.
Kirsty Blackman
SNP
Aberdeen North
Question
Asked about anti-corruption champions and called for moderate language when discussing civil servants.
Minister reply
Confirmed the appointment of an anti-corruption champion is in progress, emphasised need to support impartiality of the civil service.
Bill Cash
Con
Stone
Question
Asked about contracts and potential involvement of taxpayers' money.
Minister reply
Said he was not in a position to know details regarding contracts or funding, suggested it would be best for the Opposition to clarify these issues.
Ben Bradshaw
Lab
Coventry South
Question
Defended Sue Grey's professionalism and integrity.
Minister reply
Avoided discussing individuals directly but emphasised the importance of following proper procedures in making such appointments, stated the situation was unprecedented.
Jacob Rees-Mogg
Con
North East Somerset
Question
Critiqued Sue Grey's appointment and questioned its impact on civil service impartiality.
Minister reply
Expressed concern over potential damage to the perception of impartiality in the civil service, urged against undermining it due to one appointment.
Ronnie Cowan
Ind
East Ayrshire
Question
Called for giving ACOBA more authority.
Minister reply
Indicated consideration of proposals from PACAC, the Committee on Standards in Public Life and Sir Nigel Boardman to improve business appointment rules.
Simon Hoare
Con
North Dorset
Question
Urged speeding up response to suggestions about formalizing ACOBA’s recommendations.
Minister reply
Confirmed the Government was considering how to improve procedures for business appointments and expressed faith in Lord Pickles' committee.
Andrew Gwynne
Ind
Gorton
Question
Quoted predecessor supporting Sue Grey's integrity.
Minister reply
Acknowledged the importance of not questioning her integrity but emphasised concerns about how the appointment was handled and its impact on civil service impartiality.
Maldon
Question
Noted Sue Grey’s guidance on conflict of interest for new Ministers, questioned undermining principles with her potential appointment.
Minister reply
Agreed that the bond of trust between Ministers and civil servants is vital, anything undermining it is not healthy.
Question
The situation surrounding the appointment of Sue Grey as permanent secretary is questionable, especially regarding the timing and transparency of the meetings leading to her appointment. She was approached during a period when she had access to sensitive information.
Minister reply
Transparency would help. Publishing details about who met whom, when and where will assist in reassuring the House that proper processes have been followed.
Sammy Wilson
DUP
East Antrim
Question
The question of Sue Grey's impartiality was raised during Brexit negotiations. The timing of these meetings is concerning, especially as a general election approaches.
Minister reply
Publishing the data about when the meetings took place—who met whom, when and where—will help reassure the House; it will not completely reassure but at least there will be proper transparency.
Question
Sue Grey had access to highly confidential information as a senior civil servant. Her involvement with the Labour party raises concerns about impartiality and trust.
Minister reply
There is no reason why Sue Grey would put sensitive information to ill use, but she has access to a lot of it.
Question
The praise given by the Government to Sue Grey contrasts with current concerns. The problem now lies in the timing and process of her appointment.
Minister reply
Analysis is ongoing to identify the facts leading up to Sue Grey's resignation.
Question
The permanent secretary at the Department for Education highlighted that civil servants should report any contact with Opposition members. When did Sue Grey inform her permanent secretary about initial discussions with Labour?
Minister reply
There were no such discussions prior to Thursday last week.
Question
A former Minister committed a breach of the ministerial code and ACOBA guidelines. What actions were taken against him for this breach?
Minister reply
The actions ACOBA took are not known, as it is an advisory body.
Question
There is a lack of transparency about the timing and circumstances of Sue Grey's appointment. When will Cabinet Office analysis be complete?
Minister reply
Analysis should wrap up soon if Labour party provides clarity on meetings that took place.
Matt Western
Lab
Warwick and Leamington
Question
Sue Grey is a person of utmost integrity, as testified by Lord Maude. Why did Boris Johnson not consider her for appointment?
Minister reply
The issue concerns the process rather than an individual's integrity.
Question
Labour party hypocrisy is evident in their questioning of Government regarding Sue Grey’s appointment.
Minister reply
Rarely have Opposition Benches been as empty as today during urgent questions.
Question
Why does the Government attack civil servants through this urgent question but refuse to pay them properly?
Minister reply
The intention is not to attack civil servants but to protect their impartiality and hold the Opposition accountable for transparency.
Question
Labour has a history of shifting positions, including on key issues. Why cannot they provide clarity about meetings with Sue Grey?
Minister reply
Those questions need to be answered by Opposition Members.
Question
There is precedent for senior civil servants joining political roles shortly after leaving government service, e.g., Lord Sassoon.
Minister reply
While there are other precedents, none involve an individual as prominent and central to the Cabinet Office as Sue Grey.
Question
Sue Grey chaired a necessary inquiry into infected blood. What is the status of this inquiry following her departure?
Minister reply
Sue Grey was the sponsor of that inquiry inside the Cabinet Office and it will be prioritised to find a replacement.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
Does the Minister accept that impartiality is an essential quality for any investigation? Does he believe that the test for impartiality was met in this case before any news of later jobs had emerged?
Minister reply
The Minister does not want to prejudge the analysis and believes ACOBA must complete its work. He emphasises the need for clarity on when events took place.
Question
Can the Minister consider amending senior civil service contracts as well as the civil service code to prevent future occurrences of this nature, given that Sue Grey had knowledge of sensitive policy making and personal interests of Ministers?
Minister reply
Work is ongoing to look at conclusions from various committees. The Minister does not wish to pre-empt discussions on contract amendments but suggests an opportunity in due course.
Question
Is it ironic that Sue Grey, head of the Cabinet Office’s propriety and ethics team, put the civil service under a dark shadow? Is this bad judgment by both Sue Grey and the Leader of the Opposition?
Minister reply
The Minister agrees with the hon. Friend on the miscalculation by the Leader of the Opposition who should be more open about facts.
Question
Does the appointment by the Leader of the Opposition jeopardise trust between Ministers and civil servants, considering the fast-and-loose approach to rules?
Minister reply
The Minister agrees that this is shocking. He emphasises the importance of relationships of trust and suggests people should think carefully before risking them.
Question
Does the Minister agree that criticism today should be aimed at the Leader of the Opposition for asking Sue Grey to become chief of staff?
Minister reply
The Minister agrees that it is about the Leader of the Opposition's blunder in approach and not thinking through consequences.
Lee Anderson
Reform
Ashfield
Question
Does my right hon. Friend agree that publishing details of meetings would help transparency?
Minister reply
The Minister thinks it would be helpful if the Labour party could transparently set out what took place.
Question
In light of the appointment by the Labour leader, does my right hon. Friend agree that the process looks like a rotting fish?
Minister reply
The Minister agrees with his hon. Friend's point about the importance of transparency.
Question
When did the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities become aware of negotiations between Sue Grey and the Leader of the Opposition?
Minister reply
The Minister is not aware of anybody in Government being informed before last Thursday but suggests that Labour could clear this up if they published a timeline.
Question
How can the integrity and value of our civil service be maintained when a senior civil servant, who was involved in partygate investigations, is now working for the Leader of the Opposition?
Minister reply
The Minister thanks his hon. Friend and agrees that facts need to be known.
Question
How can the Government ensure other Ministers are protected from political stitch-ups when Sue Grey, with knowledge of sensitive details, is now working for the Leader of the Opposition?
Minister reply
The Minister agrees on the importance of rules and suggests that Labour could assist in clarifying timelines.
Question
Does my right hon. Friend agree that any reasonable person would question Sue Grey's impartiality as of 1 March given her role?
Minister reply
The Minister agrees on the importance but suggests clarity is needed on timelines and duration of meetings.
Question
Does the Minister agree that perceptions matter, especially when Sir Vernon Bogdanor questions whether the approach was made before publication?
Minister reply
The Minister agrees with Sir Vernon's article and emphasises the importance of exploring facts.
Lia Nici
Lab
Question
The Leader of the Opposition's lack of clarity regarding dates and meetings with Sue Grey, raising concerns about the accuracy of information provided by the Labour party.
Minister reply
Suggests that the Leader of the Opposition should ensure accurate records are kept to avoid repeated embarrassment and confusion.
Robbie Moore
Con
Keighley and Ilkley
Question
Asks whether Sue Grey's impartiality is compromised if any meetings or conversations with Labour party members occurred before her resignation regarding a political job offer.
Minister reply
Stresses the importance of following rules to maintain perceived impartiality, noting that the situation will be explored further.
Tom Randall
Con
Question
Asks if Labour's deputy leader should be transparent with all facts after criticising previous Prime Ministers for lacking transparency regarding Sue Grey.
Minister reply
Encourages Labour to reveal relevant data to determine whether processes were followed correctly.
Aaron Bell
Con
Question
Questions if the Leader of the Opposition broke rules by not consulting ACOBA before announcing an appointment, given his previous statements on leadership and rule adherence.
Minister reply
Responds that a detailed analysis will be conducted to clarify the situation.
Mark Jenkinson
Con
Question
Expresses concern about Labour's refusal to publish timelines of meetings with Sue Grey, arguing it undermines their claims of integrity and adherence to rules.
Minister reply
Agrees that reputations are damaged but suggests transparency from Labour could restore faith.
Question
Raises concerns about civil servants' impartiality if there were contacts between Sue Grey and Labour party members, urging for timeline disclosure.
Minister reply
Emphasises the importance of maintaining civil service reputation through trust and transparency.
Paul Bristow
Con
Question
Concerns that the appointment weakens public trust in senior civil servants due to recent media scrutiny, demanding full disclosure.
Minister reply
Calls for Labour's transparency to address public doubts about the process and restore confidence.
Kieran Mullan
Con
Bexhill and Battle
Question
Discusses potential regulations to ensure impartiality in sensitive roles like head of propriety and ethics, given recent events.
Minister reply
Suggests that the Leader of the Opposition's actions call into question civil service integrity but hopes for a transparent resolution.
Shadow Comment
Robert Buckland
Shadow Comment
I echo the minister's comments on the surprising and disappointing circumstances of Sue Grey’s resignation, noting her qualities despite the issue at hand. The trust between impartial civil servants and Ministers is crucial since the mid-19th century. I ask if this appointment can proceed before formal approval by ACOBA, which has a waiting period from three months to two years, potentially longer with prohibitions on lobbying and passing official information.
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