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Police Conduct and David Carrick
17 January 2023
Lead MP
Suella Braverman
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
Policing & ResourcesEmploymentForeign AffairsWomen & EqualitiesStandards & Ethics
Other Contributors: 39
At a Glance
Suella Braverman raised concerns about police conduct and david carrick in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
Policing & ResourcesEmploymentForeign AffairsWomen & EqualitiesStandards & Ethics
Government Statement
Yesterday, an officer admitted to a horrific campaign of abuse, causing immense distress to victims who have shown extraordinary courage. The Home Secretary emphasised the importance of public trust in policing by consent and pledged that such despicable acts cannot happen again. She thanked Lady Elish Angiolini for examining this case as part of her inquiry into police misconduct. Since becoming Home Secretary, she has invested over £3 billion towards improving recruitment processes and supporting vetting under the police uplift programme. The Government expects all chief constables to prioritise recommendations from recent reports on vetting and counter-corruption. An internal review into police dismissals is being announced today to address issues with the current process. The Home Secretary reaffirmed her commitment to tackling violence against women, ensuring fair treatment of victims and perpetrators, and improving rape case handling.
Nia Griffith
Lab
Llanelli
Question
Can you provide details of the £3 billion investment, specifically how much is allocated to each police force for vetting improvements?
Minister reply
The Government has invested over £3 billion in the police uplift programme. This funding includes support for improving recruitment processes and supporting vetting. However, specific allocations per force are detailed within individual policing plans and will be published accordingly.
Chris Philp
Con
Croydon South
Question
How does the internal review on police dismissals contribute to addressing systemic failures in misconduct processes?
Minister reply
The internal review aims to address concerns that the current process for dealing with officers who behave unacceptably is too lengthy and lacks procedural clarity. It seeks to ensure fair and effective arrangements are in place, which aligns with broader efforts to improve vetting and counter-corruption.
Rachael Maskell
Lab
York Central
Question
What measures will the Government take to prevent similar cases of misconduct from occurring in future?
Minister reply
The Government is committed to implementing robust processes to stop unfit individuals from joining or remaining within policing. This includes supporting recommendations from recent reports on vetting and counter-corruption, as well as establishing part 2 of the Angiolini inquiry for further recommendations.
Seema Malhotra
Lab
Feltham and Heston
Question
How will the Government respond to concerns about misogyny in policing raised by Baroness Casey?
Minister reply
The Government recognises the importance of addressing misogynistic culture within police forces. Part 2 of the Angiolini inquiry, established under the previous Home Secretary, is designed to provide recommendations on how to tackle these issues effectively.
Yvette Cooper
Lab
Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley
Question
The MP expressed deep concerns over failures in police vetting and misconduct processes, highlighting specific cases of inadequate responses to serious allegations. She criticised the Home Secretary's statement as weak and insufficient given the scale of problems across various forces.
Minister reply
In response, the Home Secretary dismissed the opposition’s critique as political rhetoric and emphasised her commitment to working with all parties to improve standards in policing. She acknowledged failings but pointed out that previous reports have identified issues and proposed reforms which are being implemented. The Government also introduced Operation Soteria to improve rape investigation practices and new laws to better protect women from various forms of abuse.
Priti Patel
Con
Witham
Question
The MP asked for details on how the Angiolini inquiry would address recent issues, expressing frustration over repeated reviews without concrete action. She urged the Home Secretary to consider statutory requirements to hold forces accountable.
Minister reply
The Minister confirmed that Lady Elish Angiolini will now include the Carrick case in her ongoing review and expedite part 2 to examine wider cultural issues within policing. She also committed to including violence against women and girls as a component of the strategic policing requirement.
Alison Thewliss
SNP
Glasgow Central
Question
I thank the Home Secretary for her statement and I put on record the SNP’s tribute to the victims in this case for their bravery in the face of ongoing trauma. The charges that have been brought against David Carrick are incredibly disturbing—49 charges, including 24 counts of rape against 12 women over two decades, with accounts of domestic violence and coercive control. Through that, the Met has sought to protect its own, which is also incredibly disturbing and has led the former Victims’ Commissioner Dame Vera Baird to question the commitment to culture change at Scotland Yard. It has been reported that the Met is checking back through 1,633 cases of alleged sexual offences involving 1,071 officers in the past decade. What retrospective action does the Home Secretary expect from that review? How does she intend to ensure that the review is thoroughly carried out?
Minister reply
The hon. Lady asks a series of good questions. To give more detail about the Met Commissioner’s commitments to strengthen the procedures, there is already a strengthening of the vetting of officers; an active review of historical cases is ongoing, where there may be a flag on the system for domestic incidents; and a data washing process is ongoing to ensure that the Met’s data is being very extensively checked against rigorously managed national databases. That is all being led by a new anti-corruption and abuse command unit, which is instilling an institutionally higher standard of managing and overseeing the important issue of vetting.
Tim Loughton
Con
East Worthing and Shoreham
Question
The most worrying aspect of this is the culture of cover-up and complacency that has allowed such abuse to happen on an industrial scale by certain individuals—in this case, for 17 years. When the new Met Commissioner appeared before the Home Affairs Committee, we were encouraged that he expressed his determination to root out that mindset and those offenders. I ask the Home Secretary to comment specifically on his queries and concerns, however, about the difficulty of sacking officers; about why professional standards are not investigating more of those cases; that it is not suitable to put officers who have been accused of serious offences on to light duties—they should be fully suspended—and that there should be a duty of care for whistleblowing. What urgent action will she now take on those issues to restore some confidence, particularly in the Met and especially among women?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend raises a very good point about the disciplinary process. Indeed, Sir Mark Rowley himself has spoken at length—not just at the Select Committee, but more broadly—about the challenges he has faced in trying to dismiss patently inappropriate officers. He has come up against a heavily bureaucratic process that is not working, and that is why I have today launched a review into the process of police officer dismissals. I want to ensure that we have a fair and effective system for removing those officers who are simply not fit to serve.
Diana R. Johnson
Lab
Kingston upon Hull North
Question
This case, which has rightly shocked the nation, is yet another appalling example of systematic failures within the police to confront male violence against women and girls, and the sexist culture that exists within the police. Again and again, the Home Affairs Committee has heard evidence of how weak or non-existent vetting and misconduct processes have allowed violent male officers to continue harassing and abusing women—not just in London, but in forces across the country. The Metropolitan Police Commissioner has made specific demands of the Home Secretary in relation to changes to the dismissal of officers, so could she update the House as to what she is going to do about those specific requests?
Minister reply
It is important that we look closely at exactly what is happening in the police misconduct process. Concerns have been raised—not only by Baroness Casey, but by Sir Mark Rowley—and what I want to do is ensure that we have a system that is fit for purpose. For example, concerns have been raised about the presence of legally qualified chairs, who are somehow applying a quasi-judicial approach to a system that should be much more akin to an internal human resources disciplinary approach. That has so far been highlighted as not being fit for purpose; not fit for achieving the goal, which we all want, of empowering chief constables to make decisions on disciplinary matters and for those to be sustained.
Thurrock
Question
Here we are again—it feels like groundhog day—questioning one of the Ministers in a Government I support about the culture within the Metropolitan Police Service. What is going to change? I listened carefully to the Home Secretary as she listed the new offences that this Government are putting on the statute book for protecting women and combatting male violence against women and girls, but the real challenge is the culture towards women that exists within our police service and throughout our criminal justice system. Can I just repeat the question asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel): when are we really going to fully use statutory power to protect women from male violence?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend raises a good point about police culture, which is why we need to ensure that we have a good analysis of exactly what that means. We have some important findings from the inspectorate, and also from Baroness Casey—her findings are interim, not final—which set out serious concerns about the police culture that is leading to pockets of this unacceptable behaviour. We have already commissioned the Angiolini inquiries, and we must let those run their course, and on the basis of those robust findings we will be able to take the right action to ensure that this kind of behaviour is rooted out, that these kinds of individuals are not allowed into the police force in the first place, and that we can better protect the public and restore their confidence in policing.
Harriet Harman
Lab
Camberwell and Peckham
Question
I completely agree with the very strong questioning put by the shadow Home Secretary. I also have two questions. The first is about timing. As hon. Members have said, successive Metropolitan Police Commissioners have complained that the regulations this House has put in place prevent them from sacking officers who they know are unfit to be in the Metropolitan police, so that puts a responsibility on us to change those regulations. Can I suggest that the Home Secretary brings forward draft regulations, and let us consult not in the overall generality of a review, but on those specific draft regulations? We will be 100% behind her when she brings to the House changed regulations. The second point about Sir Mark Rowley and the response to the Carrick situation is that this is not just about change in the future, but about dealing with the individuals who are currently in senior and management positions in the Met who seemed to think it was all right for Carrick to be given extra responsibilities and to be promoted. The management suitability of those officers really ought to be examined by the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, and we need a bit of transparency about that.
Minister reply
I want to do what works, which is why I have taken very seriously what the Met commissioner has said about the process relating to police misconduct hearings and disciplinary processes. I have been clear that where there is a role for Government, we will act, but it is important that we look carefully at the issue. That is why the review I have just announced will cover issues such as the legally qualified chairs, to ensure that they are striking the right balance and making the right decisions. It is important that we ensure that the trends in the use of misconduct sanctions and the consistency of decision making in cases of sexual misconduct, other violence against women and girls and such offences are appropriate. Those are the kinds of things we need to look at very carefully.
Question
I think Sir Mark Rowley’s statement yesterday was pathetic. It was a statement of the blindingly obvious, and anybody can say sorry for what has gone on. This is an absolute scandal, and I wish to support what the Mother of the House has just said.
Minister reply
It is important to note that David Carrick’s initial vetting to join the Metropolitan police took place in 2001, prior to the introduction of national standards on vetting. My hon. Friend rightly expresses frustration with the situation, and I agree. It is incredibly frustrating to be here yet again after another tragedy.
Valerie Vaz
Lab
Walsall and Bloxwich
Question
Who will be conducting the internal review, when will it report, and will the Home Secretary ensure that previous Metropolitan Police Commissioners will also give evidence to it?
Minister reply
The review will be carried out in a comprehensive and extensive way to command confidence among police officers, members of the public and other stakeholders. I want it to report swiftly.
Question
May I mirror the Home Secretary’s comments and pay tribute to the victims of David Carrick? Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is important to support Sir Mark Rowley in his quest to get rid of the rot in the culture of the Metropolitan police?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend makes a good point. Ultimately, the politician responsible for the performance of the Metropolitan police is the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, and ultimately he should be held politically responsible for failings within the Met.
Dawn Butler
Lab
Brent East
Question
My respect goes out to the brave women who have come forward, but women should not need to be brave. The system should protect them and believe them when they speak out.
Minister reply
There are some fair points there. What I find instructive on this issue is the interim report by Baroness Casey, which looked into the Met and its standards on vetting and procedures. It made for concerning reading.
Lee Anderson
Reform
Ashfield
Question
David Carrick is now one of the UK’s most prolific rapists, and he did that while serving as a police officer.
Minister reply
My hon. Friend voices the frustration and disappointment we are all feeling today at a serving police officer having been found responsible for such heinous and appalling crimes. An abuse of trust has shattered public confidence in policing.
Wendy Chamberlain
Lib Dem
North East Fife
Question
I too commend the bravery of the women involved in this case, but some of them would not have needed to be brave if action had been taken. As a former police officer I am disgusted and ashamed by what I have heard.
Minister reply
The inspectorate reported late last year on that issue, looking at the performance of forces all over the country on vetting and the monitoring of disciplinary matters in policing.
Question
We hear reported on the BBC that this monster, David Carrick, perpetrated a campaign of terror against his “girlfriends”. He put drugs in the car, he restrained people with police handcuffs.
Minister reply
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the groundbreaking work she did when she was in government to support women and girls and their safety. She is absolutely right, and that is why my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor and Deputy Prime Minister is committed to introducing the victims Bill.
Kerry McCarthy
Lab
Bristol East
Question
Yesterday, when the Education Secretary was asked on the radio if the Government could say that women could trust the police, she replied: “It’s very important that we do trust the police.” I think that is a no. We cannot have a situation where women who would ordinarily turn to the police to rescue them from dangerous situations—whether out on the street, domestic violence or as the victim of abuse—feel that they cannot trust the person from whom they might seek help and that they might be violated by them.
Minister reply
I am the first person to say that this is obviously a disappointing, frustrating, sobering and chilling day for policing. It is regrettable and shameful that this has happened. I would also say that poorly behaved and criminal police officers are a minority and that we have tens of thousands of very brave, dedicated men and women all over the country who will be feeling the equivalent level of shame and disgust that we are expressing.
Question
This case has once again highlighted the terrible internal processes in our police forces and the inability of people to speak up in a culture that actively works against their doing so. So many police officers will not raise issues with fellow officers because they fear for their jobs and their employment.
Minister reply
My hon. Friend raises an important point. Police culture and whether there is a culture of fear, with people scared to speak up and call out unacceptable behaviour, is exactly what part 2 of the Lady Angiolini inquiry will cover.
Question
There are many similarities between the experience of women in the Met police and women in the armed forces. Both are organisations in which we should have complete faith, but both organisations have failed to act on many occasions where there have been situations of misogyny.
Minister reply
That goes to the point about the structures in place to monitor new recruits closely and ensure that those who are newer to policing get the right training and support from their senior leaders. That is why, in our historic police uplift programme, which will result in record numbers of police officers when complete in a few months’ time, a large part of that resource has gone to increasing vetting capacity and recruitment.
Question
We operate on a model of policing by consent, and I am afraid that too many people—especially women and girls—will be saying, “I don’t consent. I don’t agree to this model of policing in the country any more.” This is just the latest example of what we have seen in the Met.
Minister reply
My hon. Friend raises the right point about action. That is why a review of vetting capacity was carried out by the uplift programme as recently as October last year, to which 36 forces responded.
Question
As a former detective inspector in the Metropolitan police, I, like everyone, am shocked, revulsed and horrified to hear of the abhorrent crimes of PC Carrick and the failure of the Metropolitan police and other police services, which allowed those crimes to go undetected and unprosecuted for almost 20 years.
Minister reply
I cannot comment on the individual case, but late last year Baroness Casey’s review concluded on an interim basis that it is taking too long to resolve misconduct conduct cases within policing. Officers and staff do not believe that action will be taken when concerns around conduct are raised.
Question
Women in Stroud and around the country have woken up with their trust and belief in our police service badly shaken yet again. From speaking to local women, I know that issues in the Met undermine their confidence in Stroud police.
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise the issue of women’s confidence in policing. Tangible steps and measures have already been taken, after legislating in the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022, to address concerns surrounding data extraction from victims’ devices during investigations.
Florence Eshalomi
Lab Co-op
Vauxhall and Camberwell Green
Question
The Home Secretary just mentioned that she wants women and girls to come forward with allegations of rape. The charge rate for rape is 1.5%. That means the vast majority of cases never go to court, let alone secure a conviction.
Minister reply
I have worked with cross-Government colleagues for several years in my former capacity as Attorney General on matters such as Operation Soteria. Operation Soteria is groundbreaking.
Question
The first allegation of serious sexual assault was made against David Carrick in 2003. Over the course of the next 18 years, there were eight or nine allegations of rape. Through all that, he was not suspended from work.
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is right to point to the failings. In sum, the Metropolitan police should have carried out a re-vet of David Carrick in 2011.
Cat Smith
Lab
Lancaster and Wyre
Question
Women in Lancashire have seen the consequences of inadequate vetting processes when officers move between forces. They want to know why there is no legal requirement for such vetting and are concerned about perpetrators moving around the country to avoid justice.
Minister reply
The Home Secretary emphasised the need to identify inappropriate candidates properly, citing the commitment by the Metropolitan Police Commissioner to establish an anti-corruption and abuse command unit. She also mentioned that further action will be taken to review disciplinary processes.
Question
The case of Benjamin Hannam, a police officer recruited despite being part of a banned extremist group, highlights the need for better pre-employment checks and improved vetting processes.
Minister reply
The Home Secretary acknowledged the importance of chief constables taking recommended actions to improve minimum standards for pre-employment checks and ensure consistency in decision making regarding vetting.
Karin Smyth
Lab
Bristol South
Question
Police officers must be appropriately vetted across all forces. Bristol's women want assurance that their police force is properly regulated.
Minister reply
The Government has legislated to strengthen the transparency, proportionality, and accountability of the complaints and disciplinary systems for policing since February 2020.
Question
Chief constables are frustrated by their inability to dismiss unfit officers easily. There is a need to revise dismissal procedures.
Minister reply
The Home Secretary agrees that the misconduct process takes too long and lacks confidence from officers and staff, particularly regarding sexual misconduct allegations.
Helen Hayes
Lab
Dulwich and West Norwood
Question
There is a need for consequences and accountability for enablers in police forces who protect abusers.
Minister reply
The Home Secretary outlined plans to increase minimum standards for pre-employment checks, establish better processes for managing risks relating to vetting decisions, improve decision making quality and consistency, and extend the scope of relevant laws.
Question
How many potentially dangerous officers are in forces across the country? The Home Secretary said that David Carrick had been recruited before tightened rules were introduced.
Minister reply
The Metropolitan Police Commissioner has instituted a review of historic cases and is rigorously checking data against national databases. The Home Secretary encourages all chief constables to take similar action.
Clive Efford
Lab
Eltham
Question
Mark Rowley faces deep-rooted problems in the Metropolitan Police, including failures to properly investigate threats and controlling behaviour against senior officers.
Minister reply
The Home Secretary clarified findings by Baroness Casey about misconduct allegations and stated that she has a strong relationship with Sir Mark Rowley, regularly discussing necessary actions from both parliamentary/legislative and operational perspectives.
Question
There are two aspects of the problematic culture within police forces: casual misogyny and institutional denial. The focus should be on prevention.
Minister reply
The Home Secretary agrees that while most officers uphold high standards, there are pockets where these fall short. Identifying and rooting out such practices is necessary to prevent future incidents.
Daisy Cooper
Lib Dem
St Albans
Question
David Carrick was a Metropolitan police officer, but many of his crimes were perpetrated in Hertfordshire. Will the Home Secretary say whether the actions or inaction of Hertfordshire police will be looked at as part of any review? May I press her to confirm that she will introduce the vetting of officers when they transfer between forces and look into outsourcing disciplinary actions?
Minister reply
The Carrick case will be reviewed by Lady Angiolini. The Home Secretary is interested in the point about insufficient vetting during police officer transfers and aims to improve this process.
Brighton Kemptown
Question
Sadiq Khan called for a report on what would be done regarding misconduct, but the former commissioner walked out. Is it time to move disciplinary matters away from the police force concerned and allow women to report to an independent service without fear?
Minister reply
The current disciplinary process needs improvement as it takes too long and is overburdened with bureaucracy. We need a system that dismisses officers who fall short in their behaviour.
Neale Hanvey
Lab
Dudley North
Question
This issue is not just about policing but also about societal issues, safeguarding and professional misjudgments. Will the Home Secretary raise with her Cabinet colleagues the need for safeguarding to cut across all policy areas?
Minister reply
The Minister for Safeguarding in the Home Office prioritises the welfare of women and girls and victims of crime more generally. A significant project is ongoing, and important relationships are being maintained with stakeholders.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
Trust in the police is essential for the justice system. Although trust has broken down, there are many decent policemen and policewomen. How does the Home Secretary intend to ensure that all local forces implement lessons learned from the Met to restore confidence?
Minister reply
Restoring and rebuilding public and women's trust is crucial. Local forces like Kent police have been leading in instituting operational measures to support victims of serious sexual offences and rape, showing that it is possible.
Shadow Comment
Yvette Cooper
Shadow Comment
The shadow secretary welcomed the statement but criticised it for being too weak in addressing systemic failures in police vetting and misconduct processes. She highlighted specific cases where allegations of violence against women were not adequately handled, leading to a lack of confidence among victims and officers alike. Labour supports new initiatives by the Metropolitan Police Commissioner but calls for broader action across all forces. The Policing Minister's refusal to make it compulsory for forces to follow vetting guidance is deemed unacceptable. While welcoming the announced review on dismissals, she questioned its progress since October. She also challenged whether violence against women and girls has become a priority in strategic policing requirements.
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