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Rail Services
20 March 2023
Lead MP
Mark Harper
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
Transport
Other Contributors: 34
At a Glance
Mark Harper raised concerns about rail services in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The minister announced the progress made in resolving disputes between Network Rail and its unions, with a 5% plus 4% pay offer over two years being accepted by 76% of members. He criticised the RMT union for refusing to put a similar fair offer to a vote and continuing strikes despite these measures being in place elsewhere. The minister also addressed issues at Avanti West Coast, noting that driver overtime had been halted last July leading to service reductions. Despite extending Avanti's contract by six months, recent improvements have led the government to extend it further until October 15th, with an expectation of continued improvement. He emphasised ongoing reform efforts under Great British Railways, highlighting the integration of track and train operations for better efficiency.
Louise Haigh
Lab
Sheffield Heeley
Question
The MP questioned the government's decision to hand more taxpayer money to Network Rail and criticised Avanti West Coast’s performance, noting record-high cancellations and delays under the minister’s so-called improvement plan.
Minister reply
The Minister responded by highlighting improvements in weekday services and punctuality rates since December. He emphasised that while there has been an improvement, significant work remains for Avanti to meet targets set before extending their contract further.
Iain Stewart
Con
Merrick
Question
The MP welcomed the resolution of industrial disputes and asked if it would help scrutiny and accountability to have clearer breakdowns of reasons behind poor train performance.
Minister reply
The Minister agreed to look into making more transparent information available about causes of delays, but also noted that passengers are less concerned with who is responsible for delays than they are with timely service delivery.
Alan Brown
SNP
Kilmarnock and Loudoun
Question
The MP criticised Avanti West Coast’s poor performance metrics and questioned why the government opposes nationalising rail companies. He also pointed out discrepancies in ticket pricing policies.
Minister reply
The Minister defended the government's stance against full nationalisation, citing recent improvements despite ongoing challenges at Avanti. He noted that taxpayer-owned Network Rail had caused delays and refuted claims of lack of care by mentioning strategic infrastructure decisions like HS2.
Chris Loder
Con
West Worcestershire
Question
I warmly congratulate my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, the Rail Minister and the leadership team of Network Rail on bringing this prolonged period of industrial action to a close. Does my right hon. Friend agree that when an offer is put to members of the RMT and employees, it must be clear that they indeed want it and accept it? Does he agree that it is right that the RMT should now put the offer to the train operators to its members as well?
Minister reply
I very much agree with my hon. Friend. The offers that have been made by both Network Rail and the train operating companies—broadly the same value of offers—are fair and reasonable, balancing the interests of the workers on the railways, the passengers and the taxpayer. It is important that the staff themselves get to make a judgment about whether they think those offers are fair, and I urge the RMT to put the offer to the train operating companies to its members, and to let the members decide. Surely that is the right thing for it to do.
Mike Amesbury
Lab
Worcester
Question
It seems that an assessment has been made by the Secretary of State that actually the service is just a little less rubbish. Is that really a just case for extending the contract? My constituents are flabbergasted.
Minister reply
I was very frank with the House that the service last summer and autumn was completely unacceptable. Avanti brought in a new timetable in December. For the first month, we did not really see any improvement because there was sustained industrial action on the railways. Since then, it has delivered improved performance. Is it good enough? No, it is not—I have made that clear—but I believe that it has demonstrated that it has turned things around enough to justify giving it the chance of a further six months to show that it can do the job. We will see whether it does that job in the next six months, but it has demonstrated that it can turn things around.
Jack Brereton
Con
Brentwood and Ongar
Question
As the Secretary of State suggests, things have started to improve on Avanti West Coast, including through Stoke-on-Trent, but we need to see further improvements, particularly when it comes to services and delays. But that is not just down to the operators: as the Office of Rail and Road suggests, every single Network Rail region has seen more delays attributed to Network Rail than in the previous period. Does the Secretary of State agree that we must focus on track as well as train if we are to get the improvements we need?
Minister reply
I very much agree. The Rail Minister has met Network Rail to raise the specific issues that my hon. Friend raises and others, but let me say two other things. First, now that we have resolved all the industrial disputes on Network Rail, the company’s management can now focus 100% on delivering improved performance rather than on dealing with an industrial dispute. Secondly, it has ambitious plans for reform to deliver improved maintenance of the network in a safer way for the people who work on it and at a lower cost for the taxpayer, all of which will deliver better services for my hon. Friend’s constituents.
Cat Smith
Lab
Lancaster and Wyre
Question
I assume from the Secretary of State’s earlier comments that he is aware of my Twitter thread about my cancelled and then delayed journey to London this morning. It will have come as no surprise to my constituents, whose lives have been disrupted by this train company for far, far too long. Today’s announcement of the contract extension has been met with anger by my constituents. I have to say that Avanti really did take the biscuit today when it even managed to serve mouldy food in its on-board shop. My constituents would like to know what on earth Avanti has to do, other than be the worst-performing rail operator in the country, to actually lose the contract.
Minister reply
I would say a couple of things. First, I did see the hon. Lady’s tweet, which is why I set out clearly the position with respect to the train service that was disrupted this morning: there were two services that were part-cancelled, and the rest of Avanti’s services this morning were running perfectly all right. The issue with the cancellation was to do not with Avanti, but with Network Rail’s performance.
On the hon. Lady’s second point, I come back to what I said earlier. I am not pretending that Avanti has fixed its performance or that it is up there with the best-performing train operating companies—far from it—but the question I faced was whether it had done enough to demonstrate that it was capable of turning its services around. I have set that out, and I will not try the patience of the House by saying it all again. It has made a significant improvement—enough to justify an extension until October. Is there more to do? There absolutely is. The hon. Lady is right to make that strong argument on behalf of her constituents, and we will hold the company to account.
William Wragg
Con
Crewe and Nantwich
Question
My right hon. Friend is the antithesis of the Fat Controller, but may I thank him very much indeed for all his efforts in securing a satisfactory agreement with the unions recently? Owing to the complete shambles that at times we see from Avanti, which purportedly seeks to run a rail service, there will be concern among my constituents. Has my right hon. Friend reflected on the question of over-promising in bidding for franchises? Will his judgment of Avanti’s success or otherwise over the next six months be conditional on improvements such as the ability to book tickets further in advance than is currently possible?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is quite right, and I will take his initial comment in the spirit that I am sure he intended. We will judge Avanti in the same way that it is judged on the fee that it earns: on its operational performance; on the experience of its customers; on its financial management; on how it works with Network Rail, other train operating companies and other stakeholders; and on the fundamental performance that it delivers in its timekeeping, its punctuality and its level of cancellations. It will also be judged on its customer service experience. It is quite right to say that it has had some issues with the ability to book tickets ahead, and over the past week it has had some issues with its website. It knows that it needs to fix those issues and that we will hold it to account, as will my hon. Friend.
Arfon
Question
I just cannot reconcile the Secretary of State’s statement that services have improved with my own experience as a passenger over the past month, from today’s minor inconvenience of no food being available on the long journey from Bangor to London, to the delays in last week’s trains, to what happened the previous week when the trains did not turn up at all—and that is on top of the withdrawal of direct services on the vital Irish route through my constituency and Ynys Môn to Holyhead. How can the Secretary of State have any confidence that in six months’ time the service from Avanti will be any better?
Minister reply
There has been an improvement over time. Last year, I made it very clear that services were completely unacceptable. Avanti introduced a new timetable in December, but it was impossible to see any improvement during the first month of its operation owing to sustained industrial action affecting either the train operating companies or Network Rail. Avanti has since improved its performance, but I accept that it is not all the way there, which is why I extended its contract by only six months. Those at Avanti are well aware that they are still on probation and have more work to do, and I shall expect to see sustained improvement on punctuality and timekeeping, on cancellations, and on the way they work with their customers. We will be holding them to account, and my hon. Friend the Rail Minister will continue his regular meetings with them to ensure that their performance continues to improve, for the benefit of the hon. Gentleman and his constituents.
Rob Roberts
Con
City of Chester
Question
I am pleased to see that the cancellation rate has fallen to 4.2%, but one swallow does not a summer make, and this service has been letting my constituents and me down for a prolonged period of time. What will the Secretary of State be looking for during those six months, and will he be able to publish the precise metrics of what he would consider to be a success in order to allow the contract to be refreshed in future?
Minister reply
I do not disagree with my hon. Friend. I said in my statement that performance had been poor, but improvements had been made. This will be a question of punctuality and timekeeping—of whether Avanti hits the required on-time performance—the number of cancellations, and how easy its customers find it to deal with the service. I will also have to judge it on the basis of what is going on in the industry. It would be much easier to judge the performance of train operating companies if their staff were not going on strike, which I why I think that if the RMT puts its deal to the members, we can resolve the industrial dispute. The issue of holding management to account would then be very clear, because it would be the only thing left on which we can focus. It is very difficult to hold management to account when the workers keep going on strike and disrupting the service for passengers.
Jeff Smith
Lab
Manchester Withington
Question
The Secretary of State said that the contract would be extended with the “expectation” that Avanti would win back the confidence of customers. I have to say that my constituents in south Manchester are a long way from having confidence in Avanti. I speak regularly to people who are driving rather than taking the train because they know it is the only way in which they can guarantee that they will arrive at their destination on time. Leaving aside the cancellation statistics, how will the Secretary of State measure the confidence of customers in Avanti’s currently shambolic service?
Minister reply
I made it very clear that Avanti would have to earn back the trust of its customers, which, for rather obvious reasons, it has lost over the past year. The only way to win back the trust of customers in a service business such as passenger rail is to deliver sustained performance improvement over time. During the most recent period for which we have statistics, the cancellation figures clearly improved, but Avanti still has more work to do. It needs to sustain that performance, making the trains more punctual and reducing the number of cancellations for a sustained period. If it does that, it will win back the trust of its customers. If it does not, it will not, and we will make decisions accordingly.
Heather Wheeler
Con
Stourbridge
Question
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his statement. The arrangements that will hopefully end the strikes are very good news, and the RMT should certainly ballot its members. As for Avanti West Coast, my constituents who use Lichfield Trent Valley station will be pleased to see what has been done, but we do need more improvement. He has used the phrase “Great British Railways” a number of times. I am really looking forward to any announcement that its headquarters might be in Derby.
Minister reply
On that last point, I promised to update the House before Easter on where GBR’s HQ will be, and I will stick to that promise. On my hon. Friend’s other points, I reiterate what she says: this is about delivering reform and bringing track and train together in GBR, which will lead to improved performance across the rail network.
Daisy Cooper
Lib Dem
St Albans
Question
The Secretary of State seems to be celebrating a 4% cancellation rate on Avanti. May I invite him to look at the cancellation rate on Thameslink trains from St Albans City station, which is 8%? In fact, only 47% of our trains run on time, and our tickets are almost a third more expensive per mile than the average London commuter route, which means that St Albans is now rated the worst commuter station into London. Will the Secretary of State look at those cancellation rates and tell me when the prices affecting my constituency will go down and when reliability will go up?
Minister reply
We look at the performance of the rail network overall but, as the Chairman of the Transport Committee said, we need more transparent information. The most important thing is that lots of the issues to do with the performance of train operating companies are partly to do with infrastructure. Passengers do not care what causes the problems, which is why GBR, with its new regional structure, will ensure that we deliver a more joined-up system and better overall performance, which is what is ultimately important for the hon. Lady’s constituents.
Andrew Jones
Con
Harrogate
Question
I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement. It is very positive that RMT employees at Network Rail are ready to accept the offer, and therefore disappointing that those who work for the train operating companies have not been given a chance to express their views. On the specific points in the negotiations, does he agree that reforms to working practices in order to modernise and bring greater efficiency to the railways are critical to their future? Can he confirm that this is central to the negotiations taking place?
Minister reply
I welcome my hon. Friend’s support for reform in general, but this is also part of the deals that have been accepted. On Network Rail, the modernising maintenance programme is central to delivering the savings that will help to fund the pay offer that has been made. We need to see similar reforms in the train operating companies in order to deliver a reliable, seven-days-a-week rail service that is better for passengers, particularly given that we have seen a bounce-back in leisure travel at the expense of commuter rail, which I do not think is going to come back post-pandemic. We need to see a more flexible railway delivering for passengers.
Salford
Question
Last year we saw £4.1 million in bonus payouts despite the worst performance figures for all rail operators. Today we see contract extensions despite the Office of Rail Regulation showing that 17% of trains had been cancelled since December. Does the Minister think that rewarding failure on this scale is justifiable to the UK taxpayer or, indeed, to passengers?
Minister reply
I do not think the hon. Lady listened very carefully to what I said. I did not say that Avanti had fixed all the problems, but it has delivered an improvement in performance compared with last year. As I have said, since it introduced its timetable in December, we did not see much improvement in the first month because either train operating company staff or Network Rail staff were on strike, but since then it has delivered an improved performance. Has it improved as far as it needs to go? No, it has not—I was clear about that. We need to see that performance sustained over the coming months, and that is how we will judge its performance when we make a decision towards the end of this next six-month period.
Greg Smith
Con
Mid Buckinghamshire
Question
The vast majority of my constituents who use rail rely on Chiltern Railways, and passengers have faced massive and dangerous overcrowding on services to stations such as Haddenham and Thame Parkway and Princes Risborough at commuter times and at weekends. That is due in no small part to customers frustrated with Avanti who would ordinarily choose Avanti to go from Birmingham to London being displaced on to the Chiltern line instead. What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of the impact of Avanti’s failures on overcrowding on other railways, and what can he do to alleviate that pressure?
Minister reply
I have not made a specific assessment of the extent to which Avanti’s poor performance, particularly last year, has led to the effects that my hon. Friend describes, but he has set them out clearly. If the improved performance that has taken place over the past few months is sustained, it will enable a reverse of that effect, which will deliver better services not only for those who use Avanti but for his constituents who use Chiltern’s services, for whom the level of overcrowding will reduce.
Andrew Gwynne
Ind
Gorton and Denton
Question
Frankly, we could do with a Secretary of State who has to use Avanti West Coast twice a week, as many of us in this Chamber do. I must be the unluckiest rail user in this place, because I always seem to be on a train that he says is one of the 10% that triggers delay repay. Avanti has failed, and it has failed spectacularly. Even by the Government’s own admission, Avanti has failed to the point that my constituents genuinely do not understand why it was allowed to have £4 million of bonuses and £12 million of dividends. Can he explain to my constituents why we have a rail service that allows and rewards abject failure?
Minister reply
I cannot help that the location of my Forest of Dean constituency means I use Great Western Railway rather than Avanti. The hon. Gentleman can criticise me, but that is the geographical fact of the case.
Virginia Crosbie
Con
Ynys Môn
Question
I am concerned that the Government have extended the Avanti West Coast contract to 15 October 2023. My Ynys Môn constituents and businesses are at their wits’ end over Avanti’s terrible and unreliable service to Holyhead, which is the UK’s second busiest port. The Minister mentioned that more than 100 additional drivers have been recruited, reducing reliance on overtime. Is there a target figure that Avanti needs to recruit by 15 October for the contract to be extended?
Minister reply
The majority of pre-covid services to the north Wales coast have been restored, and there are five trains a day in each direction between London and Holyhead. Avanti has recruited more than 100 new drivers, which needs to be sustained for it to continue delivering a reliable timetable without depending on rest-day working. We will work closely with Avanti to make sure that performance continues over the coming months.
Paula Barker
Lab
Liverpool Wavertree
Question
During the period of Avanti’s improvement plan, the operator had the highest proportion on record of trains running more than 15 minutes late. By the Secretary of State’s own admission, Avanti has also lost the confidence of its customers. Why are the Government rewarding this gross incompetence with yet another six-month extension?
Minister reply
I was clear in my statement about the facts on Avanti’s punctuality. Although it is now back in the pack with the other train operating companies, it is at the bottom of the pack and still has more work to do. The question for me, as I said in my statement and as I said in answer to the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh), is about whether Avanti’s performance has improved enough to demonstrate it can continue improving. The statistics I read out show that Avanti is clearly running a much better service, with 40% more trains, and has significantly reduced cancellations in the past few months, but I was very frank that its performance is not good enough today. Avanti needs to continue delivering service improvements for us to give it a further contract. That is what we will judge Avanti by as we run forward to October.
David Jones
Con
Clwyd West
Question
I must confess that I was disappointed to hear from my right hon. Friend that he has decided to extend Avanti’s contract by six months. Avanti has been letting down the people of north Wales for far too long and I had hoped that he would be coming here to say that he was terminating that contract. It would appear that the progress Avanti has made is that it is no longer delivering a truly deplorable service and instead is delivering something rather less than a mediocre one. Will he confirm that he will expect Avanti to be delivering an excellent service by October, failing which it will be stripped of its franchise?
Minister reply
I think my right hon. Friend is being a little unfair in not recognising the performance improvements Avanti has made. I completely accept that its performance last summer and autumn was terrible, and I said that, but it has made significant improvements. It needs to continue those improvements, particularly in delivering reduced cancellations, improvements at weekends—its weekday services are better than its weekend ones—and improvements in how it deals with its customers. All those things absolutely need to continue happening for both him, and me, to be satisfied with Avanti.
Barnsley South
Question
Today, more than 30 services were cancelled by TransPennine Express. The Minister has outlined his concern about the service, so will he reassure the House that when performance figures are published we will find that TPE will not have received a penny in performance bonuses, given the misery that millions are facing?
Minister reply
The hon. Lady is right about TPE; I made it clear in my statement that its current performance is unacceptable. The rail Minister and I met its senior leadership and made it clear that the current performance was unacceptable. As I said at this Dispatch Box, if there is not considerable improvement, all options are on the table.
Martin Vickers
Con
Brigg and Immingham
Question
Staying with TPE, the service out of Cleethorpes is supposed to be hourly through to Doncaster, Sheffield and Manchester, but today there was a six-hour gap between 8.20 and 14.20, and 10 days ago there was an eight-hour gap between trains. This is having a terrible effect on business and leisure facilities, and tourism to Cleethorpes, and it has been going on for 16 months.
Minister reply
I know that my hon. Friend has had a particularly difficult time on the route that serves his constituents. I was clear at the Dispatch Box that TPE’s service is not acceptable, to put it mildly, and it needs to improve. The one thing I would say is that it is overly dependent on rest-day working.
Tim Farron
Lib Dem
Westmorland and Lonsdale
Question
Avanti’s abysmal performance is not just demoralising its own hard-working staff on stations and on trains, but causing a huge blow to our economy. The Lakes is the second biggest visitor destination in the country, and it is connected with the biggest, here in London.
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman will have to forgive me if I have this wrong, but I do not think he was here for the whole of my statement, so he may have missed the bit where I set out the improvement that Avanti had delivered.
Question
The ideologically driven actions of the RMT have brought chaos to the wider economy. Rail strikes alone cost the UK hospitality sector £1.5 billion in December—that affects jobs and livelihoods.
Minister reply
That is a very well-aimed question, because it demonstrates that, when we have rail strikes, there is an immediate impact on not just passengers but the wider economy.
Navendu Mishra
Lab
Stockport
Question
The people of Stockport have to suffer the extremely poor services provided by Avanti and TransPennine Express. It is extremely frustrating that the Government have decided to extend Avanti’s contract by six months.
Minister reply
I think I am right in saying that the hon. Gentleman is talking about the period before the very poor service last year.
Question
I congratulate the Secretary of State and the Rail Minister on successfully working their way through the Network Rail strike.
Minister reply
I welcome my hon. Friend’s question. On the point about drivers, almost 100 drivers have been recruited.
Samantha Dixon
Lab
Chester North and Neston
Question
I have to tell the Secretary of State that the only cancellation my constituents would welcome is the cancellation of the Avanti contract.
Minister reply
I think the hon. Lady’s question would be fairer if I had pretended there was not more work to do.
Question
The service my constituents endured from Stoke-on-Trent last year was truly appalling.
Minister reply
I welcome my hon. Friend’s words, which paint a balanced picture.
Diana R. Johnson
Lab
Kingston upon Hull North and Cottingham
Question
TransPennine’s performance is rubbish. Its cancellation rates are appalling, Members on both sides of the House have lost confidence in it.
Minister reply
I think I was very clear in my characterisation of TransPennine’s performance.
Clive Efford
Lab
Eltham and Chislehurst
Question
It is five years since the newly refurbished London Bridge opened; apart from teething problems at the start, it ran relatively smoothly until the Government-imposed timetable changes came in in December.
Minister reply
The particular set of circumstances the hon. Gentleman talks about requires Network Rail to work closely with Transport for London, as it is doing.
Bill Esterson
Lab
Sefton Central
Question
Many of my constituents rely on Avanti, which has a poor performance record with high numbers of cancellations and delays. The service does not meet the needs of passengers, hence it should be stripped of its franchise.
Minister reply
I acknowledge Avanti’s recent improvements since December 2022 but recognise that sustained reductions in cancellations have yet to materialise. Despite this, I judge their current approach as a pragmatic six-month extension to further monitor and improve performance.
Rachael Maskell
Lab Co-op
York Central
Question
The performance of York-based LNER is commendable under public ownership. Will the Secretary of State consider placing TransPennine Express under similar public control to leverage advanced rail and digital capabilities from York?
Minister reply
We are evaluating TPE’s operational and financial performance, with no option ruled out if improvements are not realised by May 28th. The skills available in York will be considered as part of our decision-making process.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
Improvements to disabled access should extend to rural locations for better connectivity and inclusivity.
Minister reply
As Minister for Disabled People in a previous role, I prioritise accessible transport. All Ministers are instructed to consider disabled people's needs in their decisions. The Rail Minister will ensure that accessibility is improved across all modes of transport, including in rural areas.
Shadow Comment
Louise Haigh
Shadow Comment
The shadow minister welcomed the Network Rail deal but criticised it as overdue due to political rhetoric. She highlighted that Avanti West Coast's performance has worsened under the government's 'improvement plan', with higher delays and cancellations than during the pandemic. Haigh also noted ongoing issues at TransPennine Express, criticising the lack of competition in contract awards despite rising fares and deteriorating service quality.
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