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War in Ukraine
24 October 2023
Lead MP
James Heappey
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
UkraineDefence
Other Contributors: 27
At a Glance
James Heappey raised concerns about war in ukraine in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The minister, James Heappey, provided an update on the situation in Ukraine since his last statement. He noted that Russian casualties are estimated to be between 150,000 and 190,000 troops with total casualties up to 290,000. The Ukrainians have made progress by opening a new front in the Black Sea and destroying Russian military assets there. Despite the ongoing conflict which has now surpassed day 600 since Putin's illegal invasion, Ukraine continues to receive significant support from the UK through military aid and training. The UK is committed to providing £2.3 billion of military aid for this financial year, as well as over £50 million spent on training Ukrainian soldiers, sailors, aviators and Marines since 2014.
John Healey
Lab
Rawmarsh and Conisbrough
Question
Healey discussed the current focus on the Middle East following Hamas's attacks in Israel. He welcomed the upcoming visit of the Defence Secretary to the Gulf region but raised concerns about the lack of updates from the Defence Secretary since his appointment. He pointed out that despite UK leadership, there is a need for increased support and new financial commitments due to ongoing winter needs, air defence, and ammunition requirements.
Minister reply
Heappey acknowledged the seriousness of Hamas's attacks in Israel and emphasised the UK's commitment to supporting both Ukraine and Israel. He noted that while no new funding has been committed yet by the current government for 2024, it is clear that ongoing financial support will continue due to discussions within Government. The minister highlighted that a major fiscal event would be forthcoming soon. Additionally, he pointed out the UK’s ability to procure essential military aid internationally and stressed that contracts are being placed to replenish UK stockpiles and supply Ukraine with necessary equipment.
Alec Shelbrooke
Con
Wetherby and Easingwold
Question
My right hon. Friend will be well aware of the situation in the Black sea with sea mines breaking loose, and our allies in Turkey doing an incredible job to maintain the Montreux convention. Is he having any conversations with Turkish allies about support they may need to ensure safe passage for grain exports?
Minister reply
The Turks are confident and comfortable enforcing the Montreuz convention, but Romania and Bulgaria have concerns over de-mining; a meeting was held at Warsaw Security Forum recently.
Martin Docherty
SNP
Not specified
Question
Given recent incidents of undersea asset damage in Sweden, Finland, Estonia, and the importance of focusing on Euro-Atlantic security, can the Minister update the House on UK's commitment to Euro-Atlantic security, particularly concerning North sea oil and gas infrastructure?
Minister reply
The Royal Navy ensures the protection of subsea infrastructure; it is necessary for contributing to Indo-Pacific security alongside the US to ensure its continued engagement in Euro-Atlantic security.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Question
Before leaving office, the former Defence Secretary requested an increase of £2.3 billion for Ukraine on top of the already spent £4.6 billion. Does the Minister agree that this is a helpful exchange of views and will enable him to go to the Treasury to express how united the House is in supporting Ukraine?
Minister reply
The UK has won its position as a leader in global donor community due to resource commitment; Prime Minister, Chancellor, and Secretary of State are aligned on maintaining this.
Derek Twigg
Lab
Widnes and Halewood
Question
To convince the British people why ongoing support for Ukraine is essential, will the Minister go back to the Cabinet colleagues and say that more resources should be put into supporting Ukraine?
Minister reply
The case for continued support for Ukraine is compelling; it involves standing up to Russia which challenges Euro-Atlantic security most profoundly.
Bernard Jenkin
Con
Harwich and North Essex
Question
To ensure the success of Ukraine in this conflict, will the Minister do everything possible to continue providing critical longer-range missiles and air defence systems? Will extra money be announced in autumn statement?
Minister reply
The UK supports Ukrainian armed forces with significant capabilities; Prime Minister agrees that support needs to continue into next financial year.
Richard Foord
Lib Dem
Honiton and Sidmouth
Question
Given the conflict in Ukraine where Russia shows little regard for civilians, how does the Minister understand 'proportionality' under international humanitarian law?
Minister reply
Proportionality is about military necessity to achieve legitimate aims; Russian actions in Ukraine are not proportionate.
Bill Wiggin
Con
Not specified
Question
On the same day Russians assaulted Avdiivka, Iran-backed Hamas committed a murderous assault on Israel. Can we do more to crush Russia's allies?
Minister reply
No evidence of coordination between Kremlin and Hamas; Putin effectively exploits opportunities for subversion.
Hayes and Harlington
Question
I know it is difficult to get exact numbers, but the calculations so far of wounded Ukrainian troops are anything between 100,000 and 120,000, as well as about 18,000 civilians. What support is being provided to Ukraine’s health services to help them cope with the wounded and injured? What support is being given with regard to specialist service link-ups between the UK and Ukraine?
Minister reply
The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that there are significant casualties on the Ukrainian side, though it is important to note that they are less than those suffered on the Russian side. There are UK medics based in Lviv as part of a coalition providing military aid. The UK also evacuates and rehabilitates some troops injured on the Ukrainian side to our rehabilitation facilities here.
Question
May I return to stockpiles and supply chains? The Minister is right that the UK has provided a great deal of matériel, but we need a steady supply of orders to restock our own cupboards and to supply the Ukrainians. Will he outline what he is doing to make sure that we have supply chain resilience?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is right on both counts. The Department is looking to create orders that run on and on so that the industrial capacity can be maintained, placing contracts as the industrial capacity comes online. We are also placing other contracts allowing more like-for-like replacement from stockpiles elsewhere in the world.
Judith Cummins
Lab
Bradford South
Question
We must not forget Ukraine and we must continue to stand with Ukraine, but the war efforts there rely on a strong supply chain here in the UK. A crucial part of that supply chain are the GMB members at Defence Equipment and Support who assemble and transport missiles to the frontline.
Minister reply
I am unfamiliar with the issue of which the hon. Lady speaks, but clearly those who work within our defence industry do very important work. I hope that they will continue to work as hard as they have so that we can support both our own armed forces and those of Ukraine.
Question
Given that precision, remotely piloted and autonomous weapon systems could be decisive to an attritional land campaign, will the Minister please update the House on the delivery of air power to Ukraine?
Minister reply
In response to an earlier question, I mentioned the F-16 coalition, which is a combination of both gifting the jets and munitions and pilot training. It is expected that those capabilities will arrive with the Ukrainians within the next 12 months.
Question
If the news is to be believed this morning, we are about to see another German U-turn on providing Taurus missiles just as we saw a U-turn on Leopards and F-16s. Admittedly, that does not include the Minister and the Government, but why does it keep happening in the contact group?
Minister reply
I am minded to be much more charitable to nations who have again and again challenged themselves to go through a capability threshold—often one that the UK has demonstrably gone through first. The level of gifting that Germany is providing now post-Zeitenwende is extraordinary.
Question
They say that infantry wins battles but logistics wins wars. With western stockpiles diminished, what conversations has the Minister had with the defence sector about supporting Ukraine to produce its own munitions?
Minister reply
The chief executive of BAE Systems was in Kyiv at the back end of the summer and BAE has already announced its intention to manufacture in Ukraine. The British Government support that and we will look at how the wider UK industry can not only support the UK MOD’s support for Ukraine but increasingly manufacture directly in support of the Ukrainians.
Tan Dhesi
Lab
Slough
Question
Due to Putin’s illegal invasion of a sovereign neighbouring nation, Ukraine is now the most heavily mined country on earth, leading to countless deaths of innocent civilians. What steps is the Defence Minister taking to significantly expand our support in providing mine-clearing equipment to Ukraine?
Minister reply
With the exception of the northern Kharkiv oblast, I am not sure that the frontline has moved anywhere near enough to start to talk about a civilian de-mining effort in the defensive belts. However, I agree that there must be some urgency in clearing up the battlefield thereafter.
Question
With the world rightly focusing on the middle east, I welcome this question as an opportunity to show our solidarity with Ukraine once again. How is the Minister making sure that we can deliver the munitions and military capabilities that the Ukrainian armed forces need on the frontline?
Minister reply
For more than two years, the UK MOD, alongside the US Department of Defence, has had a strong relationship with the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence. We will continue to maintain those relationships and invest in the resources needed guided by what the Ukrainians need to stay in the fight tonight and tomorrow.
Question
We all stand with Ukraine, but there is considerable concern about the likely length of the war. Earlier this month, I attended a support group for Ukrainian refugees who asked me what will become of them if their three-year visas are up.
Minister reply
Those are not conversations I have had, but since the hon. and learned Lady mentions them I will undertake to have them. It is important that when we stand up in this House, we show Putin our resolve to support the Ukrainians for as long as it takes.
Question
Depriving Russia of the revenue from oil sales is a central platform of the west’s response to its invasion of Ukraine. However, at the NATO Parliamentary Assembly a few weeks ago, we heard evidence that all the blockades have now been circumvented and that Russia’s oil revenue has increased.
Minister reply
Clearly, it is a cause of enormous concern when international sanctions regimes are not working as intended. I will follow up with my right hon. Friend and his colleagues in the Parliamentary Assembly to understand exactly what they heard and speak to colleagues in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office about it.
Andrew Gwynne
Ind
Gorton and Denton
Question
At the end of last month, the Defence Secretary suggested that the UK training of Ukrainian troops could be moved in-country into Ukraine. He also suggested that there might be a possibility of UK warships on the Black sea. Can the Minister say whether those plans still stand?
Minister reply
I heard a slightly different statement, and one that I think is self-evidently true. In a post-war Ukraine, the UK will absolutely seek to demonstrably support Ukrainian security on land, at sea and in the air, but obviously that is not something that we would do while a conflict is still live, for very obvious reasons.
Question
I welcome the Government’s commitment to Ukraine and I am proud that Stevenage-based MBDA supplies Storm Shadow and Brimstone missiles. But we know from a recent report by the Royal United Services Institute's open-source intelligence and analysis team that North Korea is now massively supplying Russia. Are there any plans to work with international partners to try to disrupt that supply or increase our supplies?
Minister reply
There are a number of outcomes that one might say reflect strategic defeat for Putin: Finland and Sweden joining NATO; growing distrust of Russia throughout its near abroad; and more recently its having to go to countries such as North Korea cap in hand to seek weapons because it is unable to sustain its own arms industry. That is not to mention the rapidly changing dynamic between Russia and China. Of course, the UK and our allies look at ways of disrupting Russian supply chains, but that would not necessarily be a matter we would discuss any further in public.
Gavin Robinson
DUP
Belfast East
Question
The Minister will have heard concern raised in a number of places about the potential for a loss of focus or a lack of resolve, given the pivot of interest and attention to the middle east. He has robustly responded to those concerns. A second element of concern is the political turmoil and turbulence that appears to be going on in the US Congress. Is he concerned by it and can he assure the House that, from the engagement he has had with his counterparts in the United States, their resolve is undiminished and they will find the resource to continue their support for Ukraine?
Minister reply
The Secretary of State was in Washington last week. Indeed, his meeting was the third he has had with Secretary Austin since he was appointed. Within the Executive, there is absolutely no change in approach whatsoever. Furthermore, although what we see in the news might suggest that there is a growing impatience or a lack of resolve in Congress, that is definitely not what we are hearing in our engagements with colleagues in Congress. America has a very strong sense of what its role in the world is and what this moment of challenge is. Despite whatever domestic politics may or may not be playing out, the resolve of Congress to stand firm on the side of freedom is as strong as it has always been.
Luke Evans
Con
Hinckley and Bosworth
Question
Earlier, the Minister highlighted developments in the Black sea. Clearly, they are so important for grain and feeding the world. Will he update the House on the Government’s position on the Black sea grain initiative and how we can ensure that grain is getting out to feed the world?
Minister reply
The Government continue to be affronted by the idea that grain to feed the world should be traded as part of some deal. The Turks have shown admirable leadership in seeking to facilitate the movement of grain out of the Black sea and the UK continues to support those initiatives. If I may, I will write to my hon. Friend with a more fulsome response on the Black sea grain initiative specifically.
Emma Hardy
Lab
Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice
Question
I recently met Ukrainian refugees in my constituency who are really worried about the war lasting a lot longer than was originally anticipated. What conversations has the Secretary of State had with the Home Office about ensuring that Ukrainian refugees can continue to remain here in safety for as long as this appalling war continues?
Minister reply
The hon. Lady might have been momentarily distracted, but that exact same question came up 10 minutes or so ago. I will add her name to that of the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) in my conversations with Home Office Ministers.
Question
Providing matériel support and logistical cover is crucial to pushing back the Russian aggression in Ukraine, but so is a strong sanctions regime. Earlier today, a worrying report surfaced stating that while the UK has banned Russian copper, aluminium and nickel, the EU has not done the same, as it deems them to be critical minerals. Will my right hon. Friend update the House on what the Government are doing to ensure that we present a united front in our battle against Russia?
Minister reply
When it comes to EU sanctions on Russian critical minerals, my hon. Friend has exposed a significant flaw in my knowledge. I will need to write to him.
Alex Sobel
Lab Co-op
Leeds Central and Headingley
Question
The Minister spoke about the new and particularly important phase of the war regarding the Black sea and Crimea. Ukraine will not be free until every Russian soldier has left Crimea. The Ministry of Defence has trained Sea King pilots and, I understand, delivered three Sea Kings, but they are for search and rescue. What naval aid is the UK supplying to Ukraine for this next vital phase of the war?
Minister reply
The UK has provided a number of capabilities that have been used by the Ukrainians in their effort in the Black sea. None of those is explicitly naval, but the challenge with the Montreux convention is that, for example, the two minesweepers the Royal Navy has transferred to the nascent Ukrainian navy cannot enter the Black sea while the convention is in place. That, of course, constrains our ability to generate a genuine naval capability until the convention is lifted.
Question
When Putin launched his attack on Ukraine, he not only expected to conquer a neighbouring democracy but to split the international community. Instead, he united it because people cannot remain neutral when they see that type of behaviour. The biggest rebuff to him would be a strengthened and enlarged NATO, so what conversations is the Minister having, in particular with his Turkish and Hungarian counterparts, on ensuring that the ratification of Sweden’s membership proceeds forthwith?
Minister reply
It remains our firm expectation that Sweden will accede to NATO, and we continue to press all allies to ensure that that happens sooner rather than later. It is also of note—there has been a great deal of discussion about this in the Swedish media—that it is increasingly in Putin’s interests to style out some of the activities that have been happening in Sweden precisely to affront the sensibilities of some other NATO allies. It is important for all our eyes to be open to that possibility.
Shadow Comment
John Healey
Shadow Comment
The shadow minister, John Healey, welcomed the UK's leadership on Ukraine but expressed concerns about a perceived decline in momentum. He highlighted that no new financial support has been committed by the current Prime Minister since his predecessor pledged £2.3 billion for this year and last year. Healey called for more aid to support winter needs, air defence systems, and ammunition for Ukrainian forces, citing the ongoing need to defeat Putin’s regime.
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