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Post Office: Horizon Compensation
23 March 2023
Lead MP
Kevin Hollinrake
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
Business & Trade
Other Contributors: 12
At a Glance
Kevin Hollinrake raised concerns about post office: horizon compensation in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The Minister announced the opening of a group litigation order compensation scheme to address the Horizon scandal, affecting postmasters who were wrongfully accused due to a flawed IT system. He expressed gratitude towards Alan Bates and Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance for their relentless efforts in exposing the injustice. The scheme is now open for claims with details available on gov.uk. The legal powers to pay compensation expire in August 2024 but payments are expected much sooner. Dentons have been appointed as claims facilitators, while Addleshaw Goddard will provide external legal advice. An independent advisory board has also been established to oversee the scheme and its remit has been expanded to cover historical shortfall schemes and postmasters' suspension pay. The Post Office has paid out over £17.6m in compensation to 49 non-pecuniary claimants, with 79 receiving interim payments and four full settlements reached. On the historic shortfall scheme, offers of compensation have been issued to 98% of eligible claimants, totalling £90.2 million.
Jonathan Reynolds
Lab Co-op
Stalybridge and Hyde
Question
The shadow thanked the Minister for his statement and expressed gratitude towards Alan Bates and Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance. He acknowledged the efforts of Members across the House in campaigning for justice. The shadow welcomed the announcement but noted frustration over delays, particularly for 555 litigants excluded from the original scheme. He urged the Minister to ensure swift completion of the process and sought confirmation on the imminent completion of the historic shortfall scheme with an ambition set at last year's end.
Minister reply
The Minister thanked the shadow for his words and welcomed his support for the announcement. He confirmed that they aim to deliver compensation as quickly as possible, highlighting the work of the advisory board which should expedite claims settlement. The minister committed to working with the Treasury and HMRC on tax issues affecting claimants and hoped to make a further announcement soon.
David Davis
Con
Goole and Pocklington
Question
At last. I remind the House that 27 people have died in the wait for justice. That said, I commend the Minister and his processor for their fabulous compassion, energy and drive in delivering what we are seeing today. However, there are people I represent among the 555 who have still not received any compensation for a variety of reasons, so can the Minister tell the House whether the scheme, under its brilliant advisory board—some of whom are in the Chamber—will cover all 555 claimants?
Minister reply
I thank my right hon. Friend for his words. He is absolutely right that it has taken too long and people have died waiting for compensation. That is totally unacceptable, and the worst part of that delay was the obfuscation and denials of the Post Office when clear evidence that something was amiss was brought to light by parliamentarians. Yes, it is absolutely the case that we want every single person of the 555 who merit compensation to get it so that it is fair across the board—so that, between them, the three schemes deliver fair outcomes and there is parity across them.
Question
I thank the Minister for his statement. Of course, I welcome what he outlined, and, as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on post offices, I am very grateful to him for keeping me updated.
We now have three streams for former postmasters and sub-postmasters who were affected by Horizon to claim compensation—that is really important. The Minister has talked about achieving parity, and I think he will agree that that must be done. I would be keen to for him come back to the House to tell us that it is happening and that the latest compensation scheme will not run out of time.
I think it worth mentioning again the hard work done by the JFSA, by journalists such as Nick Wallis, by Members of this House and by former Members who are now in the other place. They have all been of great help to the APPG. I came into the House not knowing anything about Horizon—I wish I did not know what I know now. I congratulate the Minister and his predecessor, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully), on grabbing hold of this matter and making things happen. So many people will be grateful.
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Lady for her kind words and for all the work she does as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on post offices. She is right to say that there are three separate schemes, and there was probably a good reason for that at the time. It is not ideal to have three schemes, and Sir Wyn Williams referred to that in his comments, but we are all keen to see consistency across the three schemes. That is why I welcome the work of the advisory board, which will cover all three schemes to make sure there is consistency across them.
Edward Leigh
Con
Gainsborough
Question
This is a terrible scandal, and Post Office Ltd is not fit for purpose. Thirty years ago, when I was a Post Office Minister, I tried to privatise this body, and it is still in a mess. Only last week, I had a meeting with sub-postmasters led by David Ward, one of my excellent local sub-postmasters, and they are calling for something good to come out of this scandal—namely, that we pass control directly to sub-postmasters, for instance through mutualisation.
We have the chief executive of Post Office Ltd paying himself a salary five times more than the Prime Minister, with a bonus of £400,000 a year on top of that. We have banking remuneration to Post Office Ltd coming to £205 million, of which only 27% went to sub-postmasters. We have 11,000 sub-postmasters in a state of managed decline, earning virtually the minimum wage. I wrote to the Minister on 14 March, so he will have received the letter by now. I do not expect him to reply immediately to my question, but will he at least have an open mind about trying to take us forward and preserve the wonderful world of our sub-postmasters, particularly in rural England?
Minister reply
I thank my right hon. Friend for his points, and I also hope that some good comes out of this terrible scandal. I am a big fan of mutual organisations. I am happy to have a conversation with him. I will respond in writing, and perhaps we can meet following that.
Darren Jones
Lab
Bristol North West
Question
I thank the Minister for his statement and advance notice of it, and the members of the advisory board for their important work.
I want to focus on one particular sentence of the Minister’s statement, which is very important. He said that the intention of the compensation scheme is
“to return postmasters to the position that they should have been in had they not been affected by the Horizon scandal”.
He will know that that has an important meaning in law for the calculation of compensation. Some victims of this scandal feel that they have not been fully put back into the position they would have been in had they not been a victim of this scandal. Can he confirm for those victims what process they should follow to ensure that the compensation scheme delivers on its intention as stated on the Floor of the House today?
Minister reply
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his work as Chair of the Select Committee. There is a clear process in the GLO scheme for a claim being submitted and then settled. There is claims facilitation if a case cannot be settled, and an independent panel following that. Through those processes, there should be a mechanism to get fair compensation.
Question
I thank my hon. Friend for his statement. I started campaigning on this issue only weeks after being elected to the House in 2010 when I was approached by two of the victims of this scandal, my constituents Mr and Mrs Rudkin. Thanks to the diligent work of Ron Warmington and his team of forensic accounts at Second Sight, by 2015, I and other Members of this House with an interest, the Post Office and, importantly, the Government were well aware of the overwhelming evidence produced that showed these convictions were at least unsafe and that there had been a huge miscarriage of justice. That was in 2015. Will the Minister tell the House why it has taken a further eight years to get to a position where convictions have been overturned and compensation is now beginning to be paid out to the victims? How will we hold to account those who are responsible for this prolonged injustice against the sub-postmasters?
Minister reply
I thank my hon. Friend for his work; he is a long-standing campaigner on this issue. He is right to point to the work of Second Sight, which was pretty critical to our getting to this point.
Question
I declare an interest, as a member of the GLO advisory board. Today would not have happened without Alan Bates and the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance’s tireless campaign over many years. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully) and the Minister for the way in which they have approached this scheme. Now the test is to get money to these claimants as quickly as possible.
I thank the Minister for agreeing to the advisory board’s request to extend our remit to cover both the historical shortfall and the overturned conviction schemes, but he knows what I am going to say now. There must be equalisation of the schemes, to ensure that individuals under the historical shortfall scheme are not taxed or liable to bankruptcy clawback. He will not be surprised to know that that will be one of our first requests at the first meeting.
I thank the Minister for his work. This is a historic step forward, but there is still a lot of distrust, and the postmasters and victims will not be happy until those who were responsible for this scandal are held to account in a court of law. That obviously will come after the public inquiry, but their day of reckoning needs to come.
Minister reply
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his work, including on the advisory board, which is much appreciated.
Question
I thank the Minister, who has followed in his predecessor’s footsteps in following this up. It is right that wrongly convicted postmasters get the justice and the compensation they deserve. I echo the wise words of my right hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh). As a former postmaster, I ask the Minister to turn his attention to a decent investment in the branch network and a decent remuneration and commission package for postmasters, who, operating a stand-alone post office, cannot make it work at the moment because the package is not good enough. Slightly cheekily, may I also ask the Minister to wish my constituents Jigen and Nisha Patel all the best for tomorrow, when I will formally open the new post office in Sheringham on the north Norfolk coast?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend speaks as one of the few experienced sub-postmasters who have taken a seat in this place, and I appreciate his work in this area. We are looking at the future sustainability of the Post Office, and that will require investment.
Jeff Smith
Lab
Manchester Withington
Question
Two of my constituents who were innocent victims of the Post Office Horizon scandal recently contacted me to raise their concerns about Herbert Smith Freehills as aggressive litigators on behalf of the Post Office and about the level of Government oversight of the compensation process. Could the Government review this situation again?
Minister reply
If the hon. Gentleman writes to me, I will be happy to look into the situation. The solicitors involved are Dentons and Addleshaw Goddard, whom we believe are appropriate for facilitating fair negotiations.
Clive Efford
Lab
Eltham
Question
My constituent was wrongly convicted by the Post Office but pleaded guilty based on advice from the National Federation of SubPostmasters. The Post Office is saying his case does not qualify for compensation under its scheme. Can my constituent be included in future schemes?
Minister reply
I am very sorry about what has happened to the hon. Gentleman’s constituent. It would not be appropriate to discuss individual cases on the Floor of the House, but I am happy to liaise with him and take up his case if he writes to me.
Question
The emotional toll on Horizon victims is devastating, especially for those who passed away before being exonerated. New evidence suggests a toxic workplace culture at the Post Office-Horizon help desk that hindered system error identification. What investigation has been made into this issue?
Minister reply
To be clear, any compensation can be paid to family members in such cases. The Sir Wyn Williams inquiry will look at all factors involved and lessons to learn from the scandal. I am determined to ensure accountability for those responsible.
Shadow Comment
Jonathan Reynolds
Shadow Comment
The shadow responded by thanking the Minister for his statement and paying tribute to Alan Bates and Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance. He acknowledged the efforts of the House Members who campaigned on behalf of their constituents, particularly the right hon. Member for North Durham in charting a route to justice. The shadow welcomed the announcement but expressed frustration over the protracted fight for compensation, especially for 555 litigants excluded from the original scheme. He urged the Minister to ensure that the process is completed as swiftly as possible and sought confirmation on the completion of the historic shortfall scheme which had an ambition set at the end of last year.
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