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Gender Recognition
06 December 2023
Lead MP
Kemi Badenoch
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
Crime & Law EnforcementForeign AffairsWomen & EqualitiesChildren & Families
Other Contributors: 27
At a Glance
Kemi Badenoch raised concerns about gender recognition in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
Crime & Law EnforcementForeign AffairsWomen & EqualitiesChildren & Families
Government Statement
The Government’s policy is that self-identification does not apply to obtaining a gender recognition certificate. However, the UK values freedom from discrimination for everyone. The Minister highlighted the passage of significant legislation such as the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act and Turing's law, along with efforts to modernise the gender-recognition process while maintaining rigorous checks.
Today’s statement pertains to an order updating the list of approved overseas countries and territories under section 1(1)(b) of the Gender Recognition Act 2004. This update is necessary due to changes in some systems abroad, ensuring that they meet UK standards rigorously for obtaining gender recognition certificates.
A thorough review was conducted by collaborating with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (FCDO), which verified overseas systems against the UK’s criteria. The Government engaged with devolved administrations before proceeding. This update ensures fair treatment for all applicants and legal integrity.
The Minister also mentioned complexities between the Gender Recognition Act and Equality Act 2010, reinforced by a recent judicial review in Scotland. To address these issues, the Government is exploring evidence-led approaches and consistency across policies, potentially including legislative clarification on definitions of sex to avoid confusion.
Anneliese Dodds
Lab Co-op
Oxford East
Question
Dodds questions the lack of detailed information provided about why certain countries are removed or added to the list. She also queries if the removal impacts existing rights of individuals with gender recognition certificates from these countries and whether bilateral consultations were held.
Minister reply
The Minister responded that thorough checks were conducted by collaborating with FCDO, but did not specify bilateral engagements with affected countries. She stressed the importance of maintaining rigorous evidential requirements in line with UK standards.
Anneliese Dodds
Lab Co-op
Oxford East
Question
The MP welcomed the chance to respond to the Minister's statement on women and equalities issues but criticised the delayed response in updating the approved countries list under the GRA. She questioned the lack of information for specific country changes, rights of individuals with outstanding applications or existing GRCs from overseas, bilateral discussions, impact on mutual recognition of UK GRCs, consultation with Scottish and Northern Irish authorities, arrangements with Ireland, and wider implications.
Minister reply
The Minister responded by defending her side's unity on the issue against Labour's alleged divisions. She criticised Labour for their handling of the gender recognition law and promised to take questions in sequence, beginning by addressing why countries like Germany have been removed from the list despite approving self-ID.
Question
The MP congratulated the Minister on her statement and announced a private Member's Bill later that day aimed at clarifying sex and gender law, protecting under-18s undergoing hormone treatment for gender dysphoria, and ensuring no formal recognition of social transitioning before 18. She asked whether the Government would support her Bill.
Minister reply
The Minister expressed support for efforts to clarify the law but emphasised that no child should be put on a pathway towards irreversible medical transition. She acknowledged discussing growing problems with social transitioning and expressed willingness to work with the MP to ensure legislation works properly.
Kirsten Oswald
SNP
West Dunbartonshire
Question
The MP questions the lack of compassion and details in the Minister's statement, criticising the government for being more interested in culture wars than human rights. She also asks about reciprocal arrangements, people already living here from removed territories, and whether the UK is travelling backwards on LGBT rights.
Minister reply
I disagree with the hon. Lady, stating that it is her Government who allowed rapists to be housed in women’s prisons while using self-identity as a cover. The system is more rigorous, so there's no reason for others to stop accepting our certificates because they have not changed. Self-ID is not something this Government supports due to concerns raised by the Isla Bryson case.
Thurrock
Question
The MP asks what additional rights are granted through a GRC given the shift in rights since 2004, particularly with same-sex marriage.
Minister reply
This is one area where we are trying to provide clarity. The Haldane judgment has created confusion between biological sex and legal sex, which needs addressing because it changes what could be obtained until this judgment.
Ben Bradshaw
Lab
Exeter
Question
The MP questions why the UK's LGBT rights ranking fell under her watch, and states that this is the Minister’s first statement attacking transgender people.
Minister reply
I reject the right hon. Gentleman’s assertion; self-ID is something we differ in opinion with from other countries. We do not have to follow what everybody else does.
Neil O'Brien
Con
Harborough, Oadby and Wigston
Question
The MP asks whether it's safer and fairer to separate on the basis of biological sex in sports.
Minister reply
In the majority of physical sports, it is fairer and safer to separate on the basis of biological sex. A poor understanding of equalities law has led to women such as Lynne Pinches having to take legal action to ensure fair competition.
Christine Jardine
Lib Dem
Edinburgh West
Question
The MP asks which organisations concerned with LGBT and human rights were consulted, and what their responses and recommendations were.
Minister reply
We carried out extensive consultations but many groups support self-ID, which is not this Government’s policy. Stonewall does not decide the law in this country.
Question
The MP warmly welcomes the statement for providing clarity and asks whether we can stop self-ID by the back door through driving licences and passports.
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is right to raise this issue as it needs addressing. We should look at some of the measures put in place earlier and see what we can do to repair it.
Chris Bryant
Lab
Rhondda and Ogmore
Question
I will say this as gently as I can. As a gay man, I feel less safe today than I did three years or five years ago. Why? Sometimes it is because of the rhetoric used in the public debate, including by the Minister. [Interruption.] I am afraid we are not able to have a debate. Let us have a debate; I would be very happy to debate. I am just making the point that many of us feel less safe today, and when people over there on the Government Benches cheer, as they just did, it chills me to the bone—it genuinely does. I will ask the Minister two very simple questions. First, how many people does she think today’s decision will affect—a precise number? Secondly, she will know that there are lots of people in the UK who have entered into a same-sex civil partnership or marriage and would like that to be recognised in other countries around the world, so that they can live their lives there, wherever it may be. What has she done since being in power to ensure that more countries recognise same-sex civil partnerships and marriages?
Minister reply
I, too, will speak very gently. The hon. Gentleman says that my rhetoric chills him to the bone. I would be really keen to hear what exactly it is that I have said, either in this statement or previously, that is so chilling. I will tell him what chilled me. In May 2021, against official advice—I stress that officials said, “You should not have this meeting”—I met a young lady called Keira Bell, a lesbian, who told me of the horrific experience she had had at the Tavistock clinic. It was an eye-opening experience. The hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Neale Hanvey) talked about “transing away the gay” in his speech in Westminster Hall. We are seeing, I would say, almost an epidemic of young gay children being told that they are trans and being put on a medical pathway for irreversible decisions, and they are regretting it. This is what I am doing for young LGBT children: I am making sure that they do not find themselves being sterilised because they are being exploited by people who do not understand what these issues are. I am saying this on the advice of clinicians and academics, because clinicians from the Tavistock clinic have been whistleblowing, talking about what these issues are. The hon. Gentleman says that he is traumatised; we are traumatised by what is happening to young children, and we will run away from this issue no longer.
Question
Like millions of people across this country, including the LGB Alliance, I am concerned by the erosion of hard-won rights of women and girls, not least the right to female-only spaces. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we need a coherent policy across the whole of Government—every single Department—to ensure that we protect female-only spaces, and that we should make that a core commitment ahead of the next election?
Minister reply
I do agree, and I agree that it has to be across the board in Government. Some of that work is already under way. But I think it goes far beyond that. This cannot be a left or right issue, and it cannot be an issue on which certain people are personally invested in their own campaigns and cannot see the other point of view; it needs to be something that we work on together, on both sides of the House. If, while I am making a technical statement and explaining our thinking, Members across the House are talking about how they are traumatised, that is not serious policymaking. We need to be able to have a proper conversation, take the heat out of the debate and speak properly, as Members of Parliament representing all our constituents.
Question
It infuriates me to hear people in this Chamber speak about the LGBT community as if it is one homogenous group. We are not one homogenous group, and there are many LGB and T people who oppose self-ID for obvious reasons. One of the issues that I am deeply concerned about is that many public bodies have not been observing their public sector equality duty properly. In some cases they have been erasing sex from legislation, which is outwith that duty. What action can be taken to ensure that legislation is fit for purpose and matches all the protected characteristics contained in the Equality Act 2010?
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman is quite right to raise that issue. That is why I mentioned the work that we are doing on clarifying the difference between sex and gender. As I said, these terms were used interchangeably when we originally legislated in the House, which has created confusion in terms of understanding. Public authorities should aim for clarity in what they do. Many organisations, particularly hospitals, think that removing the term “women” is more inclusive. It really is not—it is excluding. I would gently say to them that if they are using phrases such as “chest feeding” or removing words such as “mother” from paperwork and forms, they are not helping. They are making things worse and they are creating confusion. I am going to work with public authorities. The Minister for Women is also a Health Minister. We take this issue very seriously, and we will see what more we can do to provide clarity. Providing clarity is the key point.
Caroline Johnson
Con
Sleaford and North Hykeham
Question
Women’s participation in sport is significantly lower than men’s. We need to encourage more girls and women to participate in sport because it is good for their long-term health as well as their mental wellbeing. We have heard stories—and I have heard stories in my constituency—of women and girls being put off sport by the presence of males for safety, privacy or fairness reasons. What is the Secretary of State doing to encourage girls to participate in sport and to protect integrity, fairness and privacy in women’s sport?
Minister reply
This is something that I have said it is crucial that sporting bodies understand. They are responsible for managing the rules in this space, and quite a lot of them have updated their guidance to reflect that, but not all of them. Young women in competitive sports should not have to silently accept that biological men will always beat them and take their chances to win gold. Generations of women before them have worked really hard to ensure that women have a place in sports and that those who excel are rewarded for that and are recognised. The Equality Act 2010 is not a barrier to fair sport for women. It permits it, and it even requires it, so I shall work with my colleagues in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport—the Minister for Equalities is a DCMS Minister—to ensure that fair sport is a right that every woman and every girl can enjoy.
Question
I welcome the commitment by the Secretary of State to evidence-based policymaking and to awaiting the outcome of the Cass review. She will be aware, like me, that the interim report from the review stated that it had heard from young lesbians who felt pressurised to identify as transgender male. As a lesbian, that is something that concerns me. As well as having evidence-based policymaking, does the Secretary of State think that it is important to be clear about what are and are not our obligations under international law? Does she agree that there is no international treaty to which the United Kingdom is a signatory that requires us to have a system of self-identification? The current system we have is legally compliant and is compliant with the European convention on human rights. While some people talk about self-ID as best practice, that is no more than an expression of their opinion. Does she recognise that self-identification raises real issues not just for the safety of women and girls but for their privacy and dignity, as well as for the rights of same-sex-attracted people freely to associate?
Minister reply
The hon. and learned Lady is absolutely right. Self-ID impacts on all the things she mentioned. We speak less about freedom of association and the impact on that. It goes to the point made by the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Neale Hanvey) that we need in many respects to separate sexual orientation from what we refer to now as gender identity—that is, what is under the “T”. We have lumped them together before. That was helpful in many circumstances, but I have seen this issue arise in other equalities work that I have done around race, where we use the term BAME to lump together lots of different groups. When that occurred, we missed a lot of information about what was happening within those groups. We need as much granularity as possible if we are to serve people who are LGB as well as people who are T. The hon. and learned Lady asks what work we are doing to stop lesbians being made to feel as if they have to be trans-identified males. I have asked the Equality Hub to do some work with The Lesbian Project, which I know is interested in fixing this problem. On the point of international treaties, she is absolutely right in what she says. So much of the criticism about how our international standing will fall is not evidence-based policy, but “not a good look-ism”. It says, “This is not a good look and we probably should not do it,” but that is not how we should be making policy. We should be looking at the facts, thinking clearly about the outcomes we want and acting accordingly. That is the way the Equality Hub, under my leadership, will continue to behave.
Welwyn Hatfield
Question
The Secretary of State for Education said today that to completely stop children being able to socially transition at school required change in equality law, yet children who do socially transition can end up on a pathway to puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and surgeries that leave them infertile and have an impact on their bone, and even their brain, development. This is tearing families apart up and down this country, and we cannot continue to let it happen in our schools. I will therefore be supporting the Bill from my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss) this afternoon when she lays it before Parliament. Will the Secretary of State meet concerned colleagues from across the House to change this law in order to protect our children at school, because that is a must?
Minister reply
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I am happy to meet Members from across the House on this issue, but I stress that changing the law is not going to be easy. It will not be straightforward and it will need consensus, broadly, across the House, because of many of the issues I alluded to earlier.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
I commend the Minister for her wisdom in her answers to all the questions she has been asked today. Will she confirm that just as a person can have a full driving licence at 16 in the United States of America and yet would not be able to apply for a full licence in the UK until our legal age is attained, the same premise is in operation here, in that our laws supersede those of other nations in this sovereign matter? In other words, decisions are made here by our Minister and our Government.
Minister reply
We do need to make sure that there is clarity across the board that it is Ministers in this country who are making those decisions clearly and being held to account in Parliament. A lot of loopholes have become apparent that allow people to change things through different means other than via Parliament. Some of that is about changing the colloquial meaning of quite a lot of expressions. Bringing as much as possible into law to provide clarity will be really important.
Conor Burns
Con
Wolverhampton South West
Question
May I invite my right hon. Friend to agree that, despite some of the rhetoric we have heard in the House today, the United Kingdom is an immeasurably better place to grow up as a gay person than it was in decades gone by and that this House is at its best when it can find moderate consensus on what is right for our citizens? In that light, I ask her whether it is still the Government’s intention to bring forward conversion therapy ban legislation to this House. If the Government do intend to do that, will she give me and, through me, the House and the country an assurance that we will put often confused, vulnerable and frightened young people at the very heart of that, and that evidence-based decisions will inform the legislation the Government bring forward?
Minister reply
I am very happy to confirm that, and I thank my right hon. Friend for the measured tone in which he asked his question—it is a model for Opposition Members. We have done so much work under this specific Government and even under my watch, including on our HIV action plan and on trans healthcare. We have established five new community-based clinics for adults in this country. There is a lot that we are doing, so it is wrong to characterise us as not caring about LGBT people, and it also sends the wrong signal to our international partners.
Stephen Doughty
Lab Co-op
Cardiff South and Penarth
Question
It is a shame that the Secretary of State is not making a full statement on the issue of conversion therapy, because it is a concern for many Opposition Members, and we would like some actual facts, which she has not provided until now. She also has not provided the statutory instrument referred to in the statement; I do not see it lying on the Table, it is not in the Vote Office and it is not online, so we cannot scrutinise the names of the countries that are to be added to or removed from the list. From the Dispatch Box, could the Secretary of State could list those countries and clarify whether they include the United States? Has she received any diplomatic representations from the United States, or any other country whose status is due to be changed, opposing the decision she has announced?
Minister reply
I apologise to the hon. Gentleman about the statutory instrument. As far as I was aware, it had been laid. That is what I was told, so it is news to me. That should have been the case.
Question
I thank my right hon. Friend for a clear and cogent explanation of why the Government are taking the action that they have. Does she agree that as we seek to address this very sensitive and important issue, it is important that we avoid the kind of language that we heard from the hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant), precisely because it obscures the fact that we are trying to find a legislative way forward that protects the interests of vulnerable young people rather than sees them signposted—often prematurely—in a direction that is irreversibly harmful to them?
Minister reply
I completely agree with my right hon. Friend—he has said it far better than I could. Let us have the debate in this House, rather than having people out there have the debate, which creates the climate of fear that many have referred to. The harder they make it for people to speak honestly in this Chamber, the worse the situation will get, so I urge Members across the House to listen to my right hon. Friend, because the point he has made is really important.
Angela Eagle
Lab
Wallasey
Question
Will the Secretary of State talk about what the implications would be if sex were defined in law as biological? Would existing trans people have to act in all public appearances in accordance with their biological sex, so, unless they had a gender recognition certificate, trans men would have to use female toilets and trans women would have to use male toilets? I am genuinely trying to find out the implication of what she has announced, without any papers before us to look at.
Minister reply
The hon. Lady asks a good question. The way I would explain it is that this is not an issue that we had before. I wish that we did not have to make these changes, but the fact is that many trans people were living their lives peacefully and with dignity until others started exploiting the loopholes. It is not trans people whom we are trying to limit; it is the predators who are using the loopholes and giving the trans community a bad name.
Tom Hunt
Con
Ipswich
Question
The 'genderbread person' concept was found on a school intranet in Ipswich, promoting the idea that biology does not matter and that it is all about self-identification. Does the Minister agree that there is no place for such concepts in schools at all?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend raises important points. We must ensure clarity in law to prevent dubious organisations from pushing unscientific material in schools. The Secretary of State will look into materials under relationships, sex and health education. Guidance will address the issue with clinical advice, except in extreme cases.
Lia Nici
Con
Plymouth Moor View
Question
The fear is that aggressive activism around gender puts gay and lesbian people at risk of hate crimes and confusion for women. How will the Government ensure that women are safe in health treatment settings and single-sex spaces?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend highlights critical issues. We need accurate data so public authorities, especially hospitals, know who they are dealing with. The ONS is revising census questions for clarity. We should legislate carefully without rushing to avoid negative impacts.
Jonathan Lord
Con
Southport
Question
A loving couple had their child's gender questioning kept secret by the school, without appropriate counselling qualifications. Will my right hon. Friend ensure parents are informed and included in conversations about children's gender questions except for extraordinary circumstances?
Minister reply
I confirm that we want to ensure parent involvement. It is absurd for significant changes to occur without parental knowledge, barring extreme cases. Parents need to know what is happening because they care for their children.
Hastings and Rye
Question
Does the Secretary of State agree that today’s statement will help prevent people from finding loopholes around current laws?
Minister reply
Yes, I agree. The purpose of this Statutory Instrument is to provide clarity on the law, which has not been updated since 2011.
Jonathan Gullis
Lab
Stoke-on-Trent North
Question
As a former teacher, I know debates around gender self-identification should not apply to children. Will the Secretary of State confirm that her announcement will ensure the classroom is a safe space for vulnerable young people?
Minister reply
I welcome my hon. Friend’s question. We need careful safeguarding and clarity in schools. This Statutory Instrument is one step, with more measures coming.
James Daly
Con
Lancaster and Fleetwood
Question
The main feature of countries that have come off the list seems to be their adoption of laws removing all safeguards on changing gender. Does my right hon. Friend agree this approach is dangerous, and what further steps will she take?
Minister reply
I cannot control other countries but emphasise our policies based on evidence. We are showing others how to get it right with careful policymaking.
Shadow Comment
Anneliese Dodds
Shadow Comment
The Shadow Minister thanked the Minister for advance sight of her statement but criticised the lack of engagement with LGBT+ issues. She pointed out delays in banning conversion practices and delivering hate crime protection, highlighting the Government’s inconsistency.
Regarding updates to approved overseas countries lists, she noted that while updating this list was promised 13 years ago under Labour, it has taken until now for action. Dodds questioned why there is little clarity on specific changes made, such as Germany's self-ID system remaining on the list despite recent reforms.
She raised concerns about the impact of these updates on existing and pending applications from foreign nationals and whether bilateral discussions were held with affected countries before making decisions. She also asked for clarification on mutual recognition impacts in Ireland and other rights like marriage and adoption.
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