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Backbench Business
18 January 2024
Lead MP
Sammy Wilson
Debate Type
General Debate
Tags
NHSTaxationEmployment
Other Contributors: 29
At a Glance
Sammy Wilson raised concerns about backbench business in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Lead Contributor
Opened the debate
The debate focuses on the harmful effects of the Loan Charge imposed by HM Revenue and Customs, including suicides due to financial pressure, failures in supervision by HMRC, and perceived unfairness towards those using tax avoidance schemes. Sammy Wilson calls for an independent investigation into HMRC's conduct and the need for a fair resolution involving all parties.
Sammy Wilson
DUP
East Antrim
Wilson highlights the suicides of individuals due to financial pressure from HMRC's Loan Charge, criticises HMRC for pursuing open enquiries before 2011 despite the Morse Review, and calls for a fair resolution involving all parties. He also emphasises the need for an independent investigation into the conduct of HMRC.
Wera Hobhouse
Lib Dem
Bath
Hobhouse agrees that people acting in good faith are being prosecuted while those who knowingly engaged in tax avoidance schemes are getting away scot-free.
Stephens points out the stark contrast between how HMRC pursues individuals caught up with the loan charge and how it enters into sweetheart deals with multinational companies like Google and Vodafone.
Tan Dhesi
Lab
Slough
Dhesi questions why the Government and HMRC have not actively pursued the architects and promoters of the scheme, rather than victims who were led into the schemes.
Buckland agrees that there should be regulation for those trying to sell financial service products, suggesting they should come under the control of the Financial Conduct Authority.
Newlands notes HMRC's failure to promptly address concerns raised by individuals involved in tax avoidance schemes, highlighting years of delays in response and investigation.
Ashley Dalton
Lab
West Lancashire
Dalton supports treating those affected as victims rather than criminals and calls for a truly independent inquiry to cover the situation thoroughly.
Greg Smith
Con
Mid Buckinghamshire
I congratulate the right hon. Member for East Antrim on securing the debate and opening it powerfully. I serve as co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on the loan charge and taxpayer fairness, which has considered and taken evidence on this issue. The loan charge affects an estimated 60,000 people and has led to 10 suicides. It encompasses contractors, freelancers, and agency workers who took professional advice in good faith but are now grappling with devastating consequences. Promoters of the schemes have not been pursued, which is outrageous. We need transparency across all walks of life and checks and balances built into HMRC to see justice for loan charge victims.
Gerald Jones
Lab
Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare
I congratulate the right hon. Member for East Antrim on securing this debate. This long-standing issue continues to impact thousands of people across the country, causing unbelievable hardship and distress. HMRC’s approach has gone badly wrong, with ordinary people victims of mis-selling facing huge bills that are causing untold personal harm. Labour supports attempts to tackle tax avoidance but not at the expense of those caught up in these schemes. We need a fairer approach from HMRC instead of the current one which is tough on individuals and weak on architects of the schemes. The Government should consider an independent review and address the human impact, including 10 suicides linked to this scandal.
Chingford and Woodford Green
HMRC is unaccountable, operates independently without scrutiny, and has failed to justify pursuing individuals while not targeting those who promoted tax avoidance schemes. Mr. Duncan Smith highlighted the difficulty of obtaining information from HMRC due to its independence and protection by the Treasury. He cited numerous cases of constituents facing severe financial stress and mental health issues as a result of the loan charge. He also criticised the lack of transparency in the Morse review, which appeared not entirely independent. The Minister at the time, Jesse Norman, was incorrect when he stated that HMRC had plans to crack down on promoters of tax avoidance schemes.
Sarah Green
Lib Dem
Chesham and Amersham
Ms. Green highlighted the fundamental unfairness of the loan charge and its devastating impact on individuals' lives, mental health, and relationships. She shared a constituent's story detailing how they had to raise huge sums, including borrowing from family, leading to fears for their future wellbeing. Another constituent faced difficulties regarding abortion costs due to the loan charge. Ms. Green called for a genuinely independent review to achieve a fair resolution and stressed the need for greater transparency in releasing documents related to the Morse review.
Desmond Swayne
Con
New Forest West
If the law was clear in 2010, it would have been unnecessary to open previous tax years with the 2017 legislation. The measure brought before the House tortures constituents and goes against proper legislative principles due to its retrospective nature and lack of appeal rights for taxpayers. It is a vendetta pursued by HMRC against victims of mis-selling scandals, leading to injustices and suicides. Hon. Members should recant their actions that created this injustice and advocate for action from the Government.
The loan charge scandal affects ordinary workers who were contract workers entitled to protection under agency rules but not receiving proper tax deductions by employers, leading to HMRC failing in its duty to establish employer responsibilities. HMRC's invention of the retrospective loan charge is unacceptable and it continues to hound these individuals without holding promoters accountable. The figure of 10 suicides is likely understated, with a large number of people affected by this scandal facing huge bills and distress. Ministers must commit to a truly independent review to address this mess.
The loan charge raises questions about tax law being knowable and accessible for individuals; it infringes on the rights of ordinary workers who are not 'fat cats' but regular constituents. HMRC's handling of cases is problematic, as seen in a case where a constituent received conflicting information from HMRC without clear explanation or due process. The Government should focus on pursuing tax disputes with those who promoted and benefited from these schemes rather than targeting innocent individuals.
Neale Hanvey
SNP
Motherwell and Wishaw
The issue of the loan charge has inflicted serious injustice on thousands of ordinary workers. HMRC's pursuit of victims for every penny they can earn is relentless, often demanding more than 50% of disposable income, causing extreme financial distress to constituents like Doug Aitken and Alan Geddes. Neale Hanvey emphasises that HMRC's methods are reminiscent of the Horizon scandal but with no appearance of justice. He calls for an urgent resolution to prevent further despair among affected individuals.
Chingford and Woodford Green
Duncan Smith draws a parallel between the current loan charge issue and the Horizon scandal, noting that public perception has been biased against victims in both cases. He argues for changing this perception to gain support for reform.
Bridgen introduces another analogy suggesting HMRC uses a seemingly robust system from Fujitsu, implying potential similar issues as the Horizon scandal.
Jacob Rees-Mogg
Con
North East Somerset
HMRC's aggressive tax collection practices are unconstitutional and unfair. The amalgamation of Inland Revenue and Customs and Excise has led to an overmighty HMRC that assumes taxpayers might be doing something wrong, contrary to the law as they understand it. Retrospective legislation is unconstitutional except in extraordinary circumstances; constituents using schemes approved by HMRC initially found their tax returns questioned later under retrospective laws. The Minister should not defend past mistakes but instead support proper constitutional practices.
Arfon
Rob Cowen, a constituent, was advised to use legal and convenient accounting services which were later found illegal by HMRC. This led him into full-time work due to the loan charge scandal despite developing a repetitive strain injury leading to disability at 63 with no income or savings. The stigma associated with these schemes makes victims feel guilty even though they acted in good faith, while scheme owners made considerable sums of money. There must be justice for Rob Cowen and other victims.
David Davis
Con
Goole and Pocklington
Davis criticises HMRC's high-handed approach towards tax avoidance schemes, highlighting the organisation's failure to address suicides and attempted suicides. He questions HMRC's lack of action against promoters who extracted large sums from scheme participants. Davis suggests that the Public Accounts Committee should investigate early contracts associated with these schemes. He also calls for a ban on retrospective taxation in future budgets. Davis highlights HMRC's oppressive behaviour, similar to IR35 rules, and criticises the department's use of excessive resources against individuals. He urges the Minister to seek truth and accountability from HMRC.
John McDonnell
Lab
Hayes and Harlington
Mr McDonnell argued for a time-limited and independent review to address the consequences of tax avoidance schemes, proposing that compensation should come from those who promoted these schemes rather than other taxpayers. He also called for an examination of HMRC's role in this issue, pointing out the cuts to staff levels over the past 20 years which may have led to a culture of secrecy and protectionism within HMRC. Additionally, he highlighted issues with parliamentary procedures such as the 'no amendment to law' procedure and the fast-tracking of Finance Bills during wash-up.
Duncan Baker
Con
Orchestrating Constituency
Discusses the impact of the loan charge scandal on constituents, using Peter Phillips as an example. Emphasises HMRC's role in causing injustice and calls for changes to tax policies to exempt loans from IHT, apply proper discretion to accelerated payment notices, and extend residual tax waiver.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Critiques the loan charge policy as unjust and unworkable. Highlights HMRC's actions leading to suicides among affected taxpayers and calls for accountability from HMRC regarding information retention times, GDPR compliance, and the principle of legal certainty.
Wera Hobhouse
Lib Dem
Bath
The loan charge has destroyed lives and acted unjustly towards individuals who entered into payroll loan arrangements based on professional advice. HMRC's approach penalises those who were compliant with their tax returns, while the promoters of these schemes remain untouched. There is a need for an independent review to provide a fair resolution.
Kirsty Blackman
SNP
Aberdeen North
HMRC's handling of the loan charge issue has been inconsistent and detrimental, leading to severe financial and emotional distress for individuals. There is an urgent need to pursue promoters and operators involved in these schemes and ensure that there is a resolution for those affected.
Darren Jones
Lab
Bristol North West
Mr. Jones argues that the Government must take a fairer approach, noting that HMRC's pursuit of ordinary people through the loan charge scheme is unjustifiable given the minimal action taken against those who promoted tax avoidance schemes. He also criticises previous government dismissals of necessary reviews and calls for an immediate independent review to address the issue effectively.
Nigel Huddleston
Con
Droitwich and Evesham
The Minister thanked contributors and acknowledged the complexity of disguised remuneration schemes, emphasising that these arrangements cost hundreds of millions to billions of pounds annually. He confirmed that HMRC took legal action against such schemes since their early days, but recognised the impact on constituents and promised to address questions raised in the debate.
Wera Hobhouse
Lib Dem
Bath
The hon. Member highlighted cases of individuals drawn into the schemes unwillingly by employers and questioned the fairness of HMRC's approach, suggesting that many were not tax experts and acted in good faith.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
He echoed Wera Hobhouse’s sentiment, mentioning individuals who unknowingly entered schemes due to employer pressure and compared them to 'the little people' from the Post Office Horizon scandal.
Government Response
[INTERVENTION by Paul Scully]: First, I thank the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) for his kind words about my time as postal affairs Minister. My hon. Friend is making a good case against retrospective policy and emphasises the need for HMRC to use its investigatory powers proportionately and pursue those who promoted tax evasion schemes, rather than targeting innocent contractors and self-employed people. The Minister acknowledged the strength of feeling on the issue, promised to address questions raised, and assured that HMRC was pursuing inquiries into disguised remuneration schemes despite their illegitimacy. He emphasised that individuals are ultimately responsible for their tax affairs but committed to seeking reassurance on certain issues.
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