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Pension Schemes
02 May 2024
Lead MP
Alistair Carmichael
Debate Type
General Debate
Tags
No tags
Other Contributors: 17
At a Glance
Alistair Carmichael raised concerns about pension schemes in the House of Commons. Other MPs contributed to the debate.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Lead Contributor
Opened the debate
The debate concerns the treatment of beneficiaries in defined benefit pension schemes, particularly highlighting cases involving BP, Shell, Hewlett-Packard, and ExxonMobil. The speaker emphasises issues such as discretionary increase refusals during high inflation periods, surplus extraction for corporate investment acceleration, and potential reforms that could further harm pensioners' interests. He also mentions the Work and Pensions Committee's report advocating for strong governance to protect members’ benefits.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
The MP notes cases of ExxonMobil retirees who did not receive discretionary increases, mirroring the actions taken by BP and Shell. He expresses concern about a coordinated effort across corporations to reduce pension benefits.
Stephen Timms
Lab
East Ham
Welcomes the debate and congratulates Alistair Carmichael for securing it. Highlights successes of auto-enrolment but notes that pension savings are still not enough for adequate retirement incomes, and there is a significant gender gap. Also mentions plummeting pension saving among self-employed people. Criticises pension fund investments in companies due to regulations reducing risks. Asks the Minister to look into reasonable expectations for benefit enhancements for scheme members with pre-1997 service, specifically mentioning Hewlett-Packard Pension Association's call for a code of ethical practice and sustainable future discretionary increases. Considers sole trusteeship as a concern. Questions potential de-risking due to new defined benefit funding regime, urging the Minister to ensure open schemes are not adversely impacted by this regime. Requests consultation on implementation of auto-enrolment changes including reducing minimum age from 22 to 18 and increasing contributions. Expresses concerns about small pension pots building up in future despite automatic default consolidation proposals.
Alistair Carmichael
Lib Dem
Orkney and Shetland
Inquires whether the Select Committee has any proposals for improvement regarding independent trustees to protect beneficiaries from company manipulation of trustee office.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Expresses concern over prolonged resolution times when pension schemes go wrong, citing an example with the Atomic Energy Authority Technology pension scheme where promises made in 2016 are still unfulfilled as of 2024.
Stephen Doughty
Lab Co-op
Cardiff South and Penarth
Mr Doughty detailed the impact of pension scheme collapses on individuals, particularly those affected by the Allied Steel and Wire pension fund. He highlighted the disparity between expected pensions and actual payouts, citing specific figures like the £2,700 average FAS award compared to what was originally expected. Mr Doughty urged the Minister to meet with him, his constituents, and campaigners to discuss a timeline for addressing the Select Committee’s recommendations.
Christine Jardine
Lib Dem
Edinburgh West
Ms Jardine intervened to express concern about similar issues in public sector pensions, particularly from Police Scotland. She emphasised the importance of acting quickly to prevent further injustices and ensure that people do not lose out due to delays.
Therese Coffey
Con
Not specified
Criticised the opposition's scaremongering about state pensions, emphasising that all parties have committed to the triple lock. Acknowledged the success of auto-enrolment and collective defined contribution schemes. Called for a review of pension trustees' responsibilities and fiduciary duties to ensure better returns for pensioners. Advocated for greater sustainability in pension investments by encouraging companies to invest in future energy needs.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Commends the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) for leading today’s debate on pension schemes, emphasising the importance of proper understanding and regulation of pensions. He highlights the need to ensure young people understand the value of pensions and suggests that this should be part of the curriculum in schools. Jim Shannon mentions his own experience with taking out a pension at 18 and saving money early, advocating for greater financial education for young workers who start earning at a very young age. He also asks about an opt-in scheme for young people under 18 and seeks clarity on the Government's plans to enable auto-enrolment in the mid-2020s. Finally, he raises the issue of WASPI women and emphasises the importance of learning from past pension reforms.
Allan Dorans
Lab
Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock
Mr Dorans discussed the Hewlett Packard Enterprise pension scheme, which directly affects over 1,500 individuals in his constituency and neighbouring areas. He highlighted that these people have an average of 20 years' service with the company and their pensions now provide less than 70% of expected buying power. Mr Dorans emphasised the ethical responsibility of Hewlett Packard Enterprise towards its pensioners despite high corporate profits, advocating for transparency in decision-making processes regarding pension increases. He also called on the Government to research and establish an ethical code of conduct for dealing with pre-1997 discretionary benefits and clarified the intent behind section 221A of the Pensions Act 2004.
Vicky Foxcroft
Lab
Lewisham North
I congratulate the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland on securing and opening this debate, praising his previous work on pension schemes. I thank my colleague Stephen Doughty for raising the case of Allied Steel and Wire pensioners and emphasise the need for careful consideration of the Select Committee’s report. I share personal experience from my trade union background in dealing with pension disputes.
Pensions represent a contract between employer, or state, and employee to provide an income in later life. The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland highlighted the emotional impact on pensioners when their pensions are reduced despite previous assurances, illustrating this with the example of BP’s decision affecting 60,000 individuals, leading to a real-term decline by 11% over two years.
The current UK pension system, including defined benefit, defined contribution and state pension schemes, has been affected by significant changes since the last comprehensive review in 2005. Labour’s recent pensions review aims to ensure that individuals receive optimal returns from their investments and identify barriers to greater investment in UK productive assets. Under the previous Labour Government, pensioner poverty was halved, while under the current Conservative Government, one in five pensioners lives in poverty.
Our analysis shows that up to 880,000 eligible pensioners are not claiming pension credit and average pension pots are smaller than they would have been if wages had grown at Labour’s pre-2010 rate. The state pension is the main income for over six million people, with cuts potentially leading to a £96 weekly reduction or higher taxes.
With the number of people aged 65 and over increasing from 11 million to 14.5 million in the next two decades, Labour aims to address financial insecurity by creating better-paid jobs, ensuring work pays well, and safeguarding pensioners’ incomes through policies like automatic enrolment.
Paul Maynard
Con
Wythenshawe and Sale East
I thank the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland and the Backbench Business Committee for allowing the debate on occupational pensions, which are crucially important to many hard-working people across the country who depend on them for an income in retirement. Since our last debate, we published a consultation on options for defined-benefit schemes, focusing on making surplus extraction easier where it is safe and proposing safeguards to ensure member benefits are protected. The regulations clarify prudent funding plans, allow open schemes to account for new members and future accrual, and require all schemes to be clear about their long-term strategy. DB funding levels have improved in recent years, and the scheme funding regulations help schemes take advantage of these opportunities while ensuring promised pensions are secure. A new general code for the Pensions Regulator has also come into effect, consolidating and simplifying existing codes to make it easier for trustees to understand regulators' standards.
Stephen Doughty
Lab
Cardiff South and Penarth
The hon. Member rightly raised his constituents and the AWS pensioners, with whom I have met. He read out my timeline from an earlier reply, indicating that meetings will continue to take place but no new information can be shared at this stage.
Coffey
Con
Suffolk Coastal
My right hon. Friend spoke eloquently about the potential value of CDCs and the importance of employers doing right by their employees. She welcomed the progress on pensions dashboards, which are now very much on track.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
The hon. Member mentioned auto-enrolment reforms and the ongoing commitment to consult in the mid-2020s. He summarised the general tone of contributions well, noting that there have been more responses to the consultation than during his time in the Department.
Allan Dorans
SNP
Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock
The hon. Member mentioned WASPI and the upcoming debate on this issue.
Alistair Carmichael
Lib Dem
Orkney and Shetland
Emphasised the importance of ensuring constituents' concerns are heard by the Government. He referenced companies such as BP, Shell, ExxonMobil, Hewlett-Packard, and Allied Steel and Wire, highlighting their obligation to treat former workers and pensioners fairly.
Stephen Doughty
Lab Co-op
Cardiff South and Penarth
Brought up a point of order regarding an alleged incident where a veteran was prevented from voting with their veterans ID card. He requested clarity on the matter and suggested that there should be an urgent statement next week.
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