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Post Office Legislation
13 March 2024
Lead MP
Kevin Hollinrake
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
Northern IrelandForeign AffairsCulture, Media & SportBusiness & Trade
Other Contributors: 15
At a Glance
Kevin Hollinrake raised concerns about post office legislation in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
Northern IrelandForeign AffairsCulture, Media & SportBusiness & Trade
Government Statement
With permission, Mr Speaker, I shall make a statement about Post Office legislation and the Horizon redress schemes. The minister announced that today they are introducing a new Bill to quash convictions of postmasters in England and Wales affected by the Horizon scandal. This legislation aims to quash all convictions meeting clear conditions on the day it is brought into force, targeting Royal Assent before the summer recess. Though this may overturn some guilty convictions, it prioritises exonerating innocent individuals. The financial redress scheme will be overseen by independent panels rather than Post Office, and it will apply across England and Wales with UK-wide benefits, pending discussions with Scottish and Northern Ireland governments. A new optional fixed-sum award of £75,000 is being extended to the Horizon shortfall scheme, benefiting over 2,000 postmasters quickly, and interim payments for full claims will be topped up to £50,000 immediately. The minister also announced work with claimants’ lawyers to reduce case delays and monthly reports from independent case managers to assess progress.
Rushanara Ali
Lab
Bethnal Green and Stepney
Question
The hon. Member expressed disappointment at the Minister’s comments this morning on “BBC Breakfast” regarding Frank Hester’s racist remarks about the right hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott). She raised concerns about Scottish and Northern Ireland devolved Administrations, compensation delivery progress, and questioned if compensation would be delivered by year-end.
Minister reply
The Minister acknowledged that the comments pertained largely to different legal processes in Scotland and Northern Ireland. He confirmed that across all schemes, two-thirds of claimants have received full and final compensation. Regarding compensation delivery by year-end, while it is a goal, not everything is within their control due to timing of claims submission.
Paul Scully
Con
Beckenham
Question
I welcome the Minister’s statement, and the pragmatic way that he has looked to speed up claims, and to take this in-house as best he can. I also welcome the proposed legislation, and the extension of the £75,000 to those in the historical shortfall scheme. I point the Minister to an article in The Times this morning about people who may reportedly be excluded from the legislation. Can he give any assurances that people who have gone through this process and whose original conviction was based substantially on the Horizon problems will indeed be exonerated and therefore able to get compensation?
Minister reply
I thank my hon. Friend for his question, for his tireless campaigning in this area, and for his tireless work as my predecessor in this role. He is right to say there are some people who are not exonerated through this process—for example, people who have been before the Court of Appeal—but they will be able to appeal again in the light of our legislation. Of course, they had the right to do that anyway, but we will support them where we can in bringing forward their case to the Court of Appeal, and we very much hope that innocent people who follow that process will be exonerated.
Marion Fellows
Lab
West Bromwich West
Question
I welcome the announcement of the legislation. It will hopefully go a long way to speeding up full and fair financial redress for a large number of Horizon victims, and will bring them closer to justice. Furthermore, I welcome the enhanced financial redress for those who experienced Horizon-related shortfalls, and the fact that those who have already settled for less than £75,000 will have their redress topped up... Scotland has no direct equivalent Minister for postal affairs, as only Westminster and his Department have a remit for the Post Office. Will he ensure that the Bill contains provisions requiring Post Office Ltd to fully co-operate with the Scottish Government and to supply all needed materials? It is vital that victims in Scotland and Northern Ireland do not have to wait any longer for justice than their English and Welsh counterparts.
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Lady again for all her work in this area. She has been a tireless campaigner. We would all like to be further along, but she has made an important contribution to our work. I fully understand the hon. Lady’s point about Scotland and Northern Ireland, and she will understand the constitutional sensitivity of this area... Given the sensitivities, we thought that, where justice is devolved, the devolved Administrations should make the decision. I again commit to making sure that we work across the piece, wherever we can, to deliver the consistent compensation that she requires.
Bob Neill
Con
Croydon South
Question
Everyone wants to see the sub-postmasters’ suffering brought to an end as swiftly as possible, and I welcome what the Minister has said about simplifying and speeding up the compensation scheme. He will know that claimant lawyers such as Neil Hudgell, who gave evidence to the Business and Trade Committee, have real expertise in this field... As the Minister knows, this could have been dealt with via a presumption in favour of sentences being quashed where they depended on Horizon evidence, rather than this wholesale measure. In particular, will he look at what impact it will have on rehabilitation of offenders legislation?
Minister reply
I thank my hon. Friend for his question and all his work on this subject. Our engagement with him throughout the process has been very important. He has much expertise in this area... I think I am right in saying that, for convictions overturned by the Court of Appeal, the record is marked “Overturned by the Court of Appeal”. We foresee these records being marked in a similar way—“Quashed by Parliament” or something along those lines.
Liam Byrne
Lab
Birmingham Hodge Hill and Solihull North
Question
Welcomes the Minister’s statement but expresses concerns over Post Office handling claims, lack of standard tariff for compensation, and insufficient timeline commitments.
Minister reply
Acknowledges recommendations from Labour's Business and Trade Committee, confirms continued use of Post Office for ongoing cases due to Departmental capacity issues, and commits to speeding up claim processing times.
Question
Thanks the Minister and inquires about progress on making Fujitsu contribute towards compensation funds.
Minister reply
Confirms ongoing efforts to identify total losses from Post Office, acknowledges Fujitsu's moral responsibility to contribute, and expects a significant portion of compensation to come from Fujitsu.
Alistair Carmichael
Lib Dem
Orkney and Shetland
Question
Questions the Minister’s Department's oversight capabilities for the compensation scheme due to potential conflicts of interest.
Minister reply
Asserts transparency in delivering compensation schemes and willingness to be accountable.
Question
Congratulates the Minister on efforts towards concluding the issue and seeks assurance that individual claims will be expeditiously handled.
Minister reply
Assures resources for expedient claim handling, mentions pilot schemes to abbreviate timescales, and considers implementing named claim managers.
Clive Efford
Lab
Eltham and Chislehurst
Question
Welcomes statement but expresses concern over Post Office’s ability to handle claims fairly.
Minister reply
Responds personally to every colleague's letter on this matter, confirms automatic uplift for certain compensation cases, and aims for fair treatment across all schemes.
Question
Thanks the Minister and Mr James Evans from Llanfair P.G. for their work.
Minister reply
Acknowledges Mr Evans's contribution in ensuring victims receive correct support and compensation, expressing willingness to assist further.
Carmarthen East and Dinefwr
Question
My constituent Mr Ennion ran the post office in Llandovery in Carmarthenshire between 2000 and 2018. In a recent BBC interview he estimated that he had lost about £75,000, and said that his health has deteriorated severely. He also does not have faith in the Horizon shortfall scheme due to lack of records and poor health. What more can be done to encourage people like Mr Ennion to make an application through the scheme?
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Gentleman for representing his constituent effectively. The recently announced scheme allows individuals such as Mr Ennion to opt for a £75,000 fixed-sum award without having to go through the detailed claim process, which involves just signing a simple letter.
Sammy Wilson
DUP
East Antrim
Question
Welcoming the Minister's statement on bringing forward legislation quickly for those affected by the scandal, Sammy Wilson expresses disappointment that Northern Ireland is not included in the Bill. He argues against the Minister’s reasons, stating it is a national issue and there have been precedents of including Northern Ireland despite differences in judicial systems.
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his contributions. While we understand his point and are sympathetic to it, we took a difficult decision due to the complexity of the situation. We are happy to lend support so that Northern Ireland can do the same as we are doing.
Question
The Minister is urged to reconsider his stance on excluding Northern Ireland from the Bill, given unanimous political consensus there for Westminster action and advice from the Justice Minister. The Executive in Northern Ireland does not have the capacity to pass such legislation simultaneously with Westminster.
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his points. We are keen to lend support and help draft the Bill for Northern Ireland, and we will continue to listen to views about involving devolved Administrations. The redress schemes will be available UK-wide if prosecutions can be quashed on a UK-wide basis.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
Paying tribute to the Minister's perseverance, Jim Shannon asks about steps to ensure that the legacy of those affected by the scandal who have passed away will be supported through the redress payment scheme.
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his work on this issue and contributions. The legislation is designed so that families can come forward and submit claims or choose a fixed-sum award to pursue their claim, which is quicker and less painful for those in such situations.
Shadow Comment
Rushanara Ali
Shadow Comment
The shadow Minister responded by expressing deep disappointment at the Minister’s failure to categorically condemn racist remarks on 'BBC Breakfast'. She raised concerns about Scottish and Northern Ireland devolved Administrations, compensation delivery progress, and questioned if compensation would be delivered by year-end. The shadow highlighted that 80% of compensation was yet to be delivered and pressed for independent oversight.
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