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Horizon: Compensation and Convictions
08 January 2024
Lead MP
Kevin Hollinrake
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
Business & Trade
Other Contributors: 63
At a Glance
Kevin Hollinrake raised concerns about horizon: compensation and convictions in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The Post Office scandal involving the Horizon system is a significant miscarriage of justice. The Minister praised ITV’s programme 'Mr Bates vs The Post Office' for raising awareness about the issue. He acknowledged the contributions of Alan Bates, Jo Hamilton, Lee Castleton, and others in seeking justice and compensation for victims. Over 64% of those affected have received full and final compensation; however, there are ongoing issues with convictions still pending overturning by courts. The minister announced that they have devised options to expedite this process after discussions with Lord Arbuthnot and the Lord Chancellor. An independent panel chaired by Sir Gary Hickinbottom will assess pecuniary losses for those whose convictions have been overturned but who dispute their compensation, ensuring a fair and transparent approach. Compensation totals over £148 million to date, including interim payments of £163,000 and full and final settlements up to £600,000 for 93 exonerated individuals. The Government aims to ensure that every victim is fully recompensed for losses and suffering, with a commitment to compensating all affected postmasters and restoring their good names.
Grahame Morris
Lab/Co-op
Easington
Question
The MP asked what steps are being taken to expedite the overturning of convictions for those affected by the Horizon scandal and to support them financially while awaiting justice.
Minister reply
The minister responded that he has been in discussions with Lord Arbuthnot, Sir Wyn Williams, and the Lord Chancellor about ways to speed up conviction overhauls. He assured that interim payments are available for victims until their convictions are overturned.
Derek Twigg
Lab
Halton
Question
The MP asked whether there is a possibility of establishing an ombudsman or similar body to review cases where postmasters have been denied compensation.
Minister reply
The minister stated that the independent panel chaired by Sir Gary Hickinbottom will handle disputes over pecuniary losses, ensuring fair and transparent compensation assessments.
Steve McCabe
Lab
Birmingham Selly Oak
Question
The MP questioned whether there are plans to introduce new legislation to prevent similar scandals in the future.
Minister reply
The minister confirmed that a review into private prosecutions is underway, led by the Lord Chancellor, with a view to preventing such incidents from happening again.
David Amess
Con
Southend West
Question
The MP inquired about the progress of the Sir Wyn Williams inquiry and its potential impact on future compensation payouts.
Minister reply
The minister noted that the Sir Wyn Williams inquiry is ongoing, aiming to determine culpability and recommend actions for accountability. The findings will inform further steps regarding compensation.
Jonathan Reynolds
Lab Co-op
Stalybridge and Hyde
Question
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for the advance copy of his statement. The Horizon Post Office failure is a scandal to which we have been responding for some time, but I welcome the way the recent ITV drama has brought the story to a wider audience. A lot has been done but, as we all know, there is a lot more to do because the Horizon scandal is one of the most egregious miscarriages of justice in British history, something that robbed people of their lives, liberty and livelihoods. I recognise the attention that the Minister has given this matter, including by responding positively to the campaign to ensure that compensation payments are not subject to taxation. However, it is still an urgent priority to get compensation to all those affected and it is unconscionable that convictions still remain where it is clear that no wrongdoing has been committed. Justice must be served for those workers and their families, which is why Labour has called for all sub-postmasters to be exonerated in full.
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind words and support, and for the manner in which he delivered his response to the statement. We share an ambition to see exoneration, and I am very happy to work with him over the next few days to make sure that we are getting to the right place. He raises a very important point about people who were involved in a pilot scheme for Horizon—an issue that has also been raised by the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones). We want to make sure that every single victim is properly covered by the various schemes, and I have asked everybody who has evidence of any kind, including the right hon. Member for North Durham, to furnish me with the details.
Question
I refer my hon. Friend the Minister to the article in The Howard Journal of Crime and Justice by M. R. McGuire and K. Renaud entitled “Harm, injustice & technology: Reflections on the UK’s subpostmasters’ case”. First, page 444 shows the graph of the prosecutions which rose from 10 in 1997 to nearly 80 in 2001. The people responsible should have noticed that we were not going to get ordinary, decent people suddenly going crooked on that scale. Secondly, the article talks about the bugs that were named after the sub-post offices where they were discovered: the Dalmellington bug and the Callendar Square bug. I also refer my hon. Friend the Minister to the article in The Sun about my constituent Cheryl Shaw who gave up in 2008.
Minister reply
I thank my hon. Friend for his questions. I totally agree that people should be held responsible where, following an inquiry and investigation, they are shown to have wilfully neglected their duties. He raises an important point about the courts’ attitude towards computer and technology-based evidence. My right hon. and learned Friend the Lord Chancellor is looking at that issue too, it having been brought to his attention by Paul Marshall, one of the leading barristers involved in this scandal. I am sorry to hear about my hon. Friend’s constituent, Mrs Shaw.
Marion Fellows
SNP
Glasgow North West
Question
The MP thanked the Minister for his statement and expressed concerns about sub-postmasters who were never prosecuted but paid money back to Post Office Ltd. She questioned whether this enhanced the profits of Post Office executives, leading to bonus payments that should be repaid. The MP also urged for fixed timelines in the inquiry's reports.
Minister reply
The Minister thanked the hon. Lady for her questions and acknowledged the challenges faced by sub-postmasters who had paid money back to Post Office Ltd. He confirmed that the benefit of doubt should be with postmasters, mentioning the Horizon shortfall scheme as a compensatory mechanism. The Minister agreed on accountability but could not provide fixed timelines due to external factors.
David Davis
Con
Goole and Pocklington
Question
The MP congratulated the Minister for his work in bringing justice to victims of the Post Office scandal. He proposed four aims: stopping unnecessary challenges by the Post Office, accelerating compensation payments, stripping away the right of the Post Office to police cases, and speeding up investigatory procedures before criminal prosecutions.
Minister reply
The Minister assured his right hon. Friend that they would achieve these aims through a more rapid means of overturning convictions, ensuring fair processes, and expediting investigation methods. He agreed to discuss further details with the MP on post-policing measures.
Liam Byrne
Lab
Birmingham Hodge Hill
Question
The right hon. Gentleman questioned the timeframe for delivering justice, noting that 85% of convictions have not been overturned despite recommendations to speed up processes.
Minister reply
The Minister thanked the right hon. Gentleman and expressed willingness to discuss detailed questions with him regarding the compensation schemes. He confirmed a commitment to resolving issues by August but acknowledged some limitations in expediting matters due to victims' involvement.
Question
The MP welcomed the new sense of urgency across the House and suggested that the Post Office’s ability to take forward prosecutions was partly due to its 100% Government ownership.
Minister reply
The Minister acknowledged the point, noting that no private prosecutions have been initiated by the Post Office since 2015 and expressing doubt about future attempts given current circumstances.
Question
As a member of the Horizon compensation advisory board, the MP thanked the Minister for his statement and emphasised the need to get compensation out quickly. He asked about overturning convictions and addressing pre-Horizon scheme cases.
Minister reply
The Minister agreed on the importance of reaching out to victims quickly and acknowledged the role of the TV drama in raising awareness. He expressed willingness to attend advisory board meetings on Wednesday and shared plans for discussing measures proposed by the board.
Bob Neill
Con
Bexley Heath and Crayford
Question
Welcomed the sense of urgency on both sides of the House regarding overturning improper convictions, highlighting the need for speed but also considering the exceptional strains it may place on the appeal system and criminal justice system. Suggested revisiting the Justice Committee’s recommendations from 2021 on private prosecutions to ensure proper standards.
Minister reply
Acknowledged Bob Neill's work and shared ambitions to speed up the process, noting awareness of resource issues and conversations with Lord Chancellor about oversight of private prosecutors.
Diana R. Johnson
Lab
Kingston upon Hull North and Cottingham
Question
Inquired about compensation for Janet Skinner, a constituent who had her conviction quashed, asking when she would start receiving compensation.
Minister reply
Confirmed interim payments of £163,000 available to those whose convictions are overturned. Mentioned two options: full assessment route within 40 working days or fixed-sum award of £600,000.
Paul Scully
Con
Beckenham
Question
Asked the Minister to build on his work to ensure that convictions are quashed and compensation is provided in line with Sir Wyn Williams’s inquiry. Emphasised the human cost of the issue.
Minister reply
Acknowledged Paul Scully's work, committed to expediting the process without causing constitutional or legal issues, and expressed confidence in providing more details shortly.
Alistair Carmichael
Lib Dem
Orkney and Shetland
Question
Asked about ensuring full compensation for victims of the scandal, especially in cases where there is a lack of evidence.
Minister reply
Agreed that in cases with insufficient evidence, benefit should be given to the victim, ensuring generous settlements and quick payments.
Priti Patel
Con
Witham
Question
Inquired about reviewing the actions of Fujitsu and assessing corporate governance within the Post Office.
Minister reply
Acknowledged need for accountability, agreed to review contracts awarded to Fujitsu, and suggested that Sir Wyn Williams's inquiry should determine blame.
Barry Gardiner
Lab
Brent West
Question
Asked if the issue involves misfeasance in public office with a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.
Minister reply
Agreed to discuss potential penalties for such offences with officials, highlighting the importance of accountability.
Question
Suggested that an unprecedented approach is required, including legislation creating a presumption of innocence for those affected by this scandal.
Minister reply
Acknowledged the need for an unprecedented approach and noted discussions with Lord Chancellor on potential legislation.
Sammy Wilson
DUP
East Antrim
Question
Raises concerns about the negligence and potential abuse of power by those involved in persecuting innocent sub-postmasters. Asks if those responsible will be held to account.
Minister reply
Acknowledges the brutality, gratuitousness and shocking nature of Post Office actions; commits to holding people accountable through possible prosecutions as a deterrent.
Question
Welcomes Minister’s approach but questions whether the scandal was used to accelerate post office closures. Inquires about investigating this possibility.
Minister reply
Notes that Sir Wyn Williams is investigating motivations behind Post Office actions; attributes closures mainly to changes in shopping habits, not scandal.
Stephen Doughty
Lab Co-op
Cardiff South and Penarth
Question
Asks about support for tracking down eligible individuals who have become exasperated or exhausted by the situation.
Minister reply
Confirms efforts to write to all those with convictions; emphasises the need to encourage confidence in coming forward.
Caroline Nokes
Con
Romsey and Southampton North
Question
Asks about support for sub-postmasters who felt forced out of their businesses due to lack of care from Post Office.
Minister reply
Confirms that the Horizon shortfall scheme compensates individuals affected directly; agrees to look into supporting those with similar experiences.
Question
Suggests that many sub-postmasters may have grounds for malicious prosecution and calls for investigation by police.
Minister reply
Agrees on the need for compensation due to malicious prosecution; expects enforcement agencies to examine potential offences closely.
Maldon
Question
Praises ITV and its producers for bringing the scandal into public consciousness through a powerful dramatisation.
Minister reply
Agrees, praises the programme’s role in highlighting the effects of the scandal on sub-postmasters.
Clive Efford
Lab
Eltham
Question
Raises issues with Post Office involvement in deciding compensation claims and calls for complete removal from the process.
Minister reply
Acknowledges the need to limit Post Office influence; commits to ensuring fair compensation outside their jurisdiction.
Question
Asks about improving the process of claiming full and final compensation for sub-postmasters.
Minister reply
Confirms efforts to make the process easier; committed to providing clearer and better news in the coming days.
Tim Farron
Lib Dem
Westmorland and Lonsdale
Question
Calls for swift and fair compensation, immediate exoneration of victims, and improved relationship between postmasters and the Post Office.
Minister reply
Acknowledges need for swift and fair compensation, committed to overturning convictions as soon as possible. Discusses measures like recruitment of 100 area managers and financial sustainability initiatives for post offices.
Question
Welcomes news that 100 new people have come forward and urges encouragement for everyone affected to claim compensation.
Minister reply
Commits to making it easier for victims to access compensation, including through fixed-sum award routes and simplified overturning processes.
Question
Raises concerns about delays in paying compensation and supports review of private prosecutions.
Minister reply
Acknowledges the value of raising awareness through dramatizations, discusses ongoing work on private prosecutions with Lord Chancellor, commits to expediting compensation payments.
Question
Asks for decisive action to identify victims and mass-exonerate those convicted.
Minister reply
Acknowledges the need for a process that does not require victims to come forward, discusses ongoing efforts and hope for news in coming days.
Question
Calls for decisive action to identify victims and mass-exonerate those convicted.
Minister reply
Confirms efforts towards overturning convictions quickly and providing compensation, disappointed at low uptake but committed to resolving issues expediently.
Edward Leigh
Con
Gainsborough
Question
Asserts ministerial responsibility and calls for a line to be drawn under the scandal.
Minister reply
Agrees with need to take responsibility, commits to overturning convictions and providing full compensation, aims to quickly resolve issues.
Andrew Gwynne
Ind
Gorton and Denton
Question
Pays tribute to a constituent who lost everything due to false accusations and calls for accountability.
Minister reply
Apologises on behalf of the Government, commits to providing compensation quickly to Mrs Robinson. Discusses need for accountability through investigations.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Question
If individual employees of the Post Office face serious criminal charges for malicious prosecution or criminal conspiracy, how would the Minister feel if it turned out that the Post Office proposed to pay for their legal defence costs, given how it treated its own sub-postmasters?
Minister reply
The minister stated he would not feel good about it and will take advice on this matter as it does not seem an appropriate thing to do.
Question
Details a case of Michael Rudkin, who witnessed IT engineers altering accounts in Horizon system at Fujitsu headquarters. After returning home, Rudkin and his wife were raided by Post Office inspectors the next morning for an alleged £44,000 shortfall in their account, leading to criminal convictions.
Minister reply
The minister thanked Bridgen for his work on this matter and expressed sympathy towards Michael and Susan Rudkin. The minister acknowledged the coincidental timing but called for Sir Wyn Williams’s inquiry to determine responsibility.
Question
Asks why Fujitsu, despite being involved in causing distress due to Horizon computer system issues, continues to receive multimillion-pound public sector contracts.
Minister reply
The minister confirmed that the Post Office will move away from the current Horizon system and no longer use Fujitsu. He also mentioned a review of existing government contracts with Fujitsu post Sir Wyn Williams’s inquiry.
Kate Osborne
Lab
Jarrow and Gateshead East
Question
Expresses gratitude towards the Minister for his statement, recognises Chris Head's campaigning, and questions whether existing contracts should be paused and new ones stopped until a review is done.
Minister reply
The minister thanked Osborne for her work and agreed that Sir Wyn Williams’s inquiry needs to identify responsibility before decisions on government contracts can be made.
Neil O'Brien
Con
Harborough, Oadby and Wigston
Question
Proposes a special legal process for overturning wrongful convictions rapidly, accelerating compensation, stopping Post Office prosecutions against victims in court, and asks the Minister to agree with Paula Vennells returning her CBE.
Minister reply
The minister agrees on all fronts: rapid legal processes are under discussion, prosecution has stopped since 2015, and he supports the notion of Paula Vennells voluntarily returning her CBE.
Question
Questions whether bonus payments should be recovered from executives overseeing corporate lies against sub-postmasters.
Minister reply
The minister agrees with Stephens's view and describes the situation as chilling, but supports Sir Wyn Williams’s inquiry to identify responsibilities.
Question
Welcomes the Minister's statement on removal of CBE from former CEO but asks if this action delivers justice or whether the criminal law should be imposed.
Minister reply
The minister agrees that the issue is about justice, not retribution. He supports victims’ demands for compensation and accountability through Sir Wyn Williams’s inquiry.
Mike Amesbury
Lab Co-op
Weaver Vale
Question
I thank the Minister for his work and for his constructive statement. When can we expect Fujitsu to be held accountable and to pay significant compensation to those affected?
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his words. We should not prejudge the outcome of the inquiry. It is a statutory inquiry, due to conclude later this year, and we hope for a report very shortly afterwards. At that point, we should be able to determine who is responsible and what action should be taken.
Martin Vickers
Con
Brigg and Immingham
Question
The excellent TV drama brought home to millions of people the trauma caused to individual people. It surely means that the Government must look again at the accountability of many arm’s length agencies, which are operationally independent.
Minister reply
I agree that accountability is key. My Department has learned lessons on governance and spends a lot of time meeting the Post Office and UK Government Investments to ensure proper oversight. However, my hon. Friend refers to something wider than the Post Office—other arm’s length bodies—and he raises an important point to which we should certainly give consideration.
Rachael Maskell
Lab Co-op
York Central
Question
I understand how complicated it is to calculate compensation for individuals. My constituent’s numbers disappeared off their screen as transactions were being put through. Will the Minister ensure that more resources are put into supporting the process so that compensation can be paid more expediently?
Minister reply
The hon. Lady is absolutely right. These matters take time due to legal advice and assessments of health conditions, among others. Under the GLO scheme, we have committed to responding to 90% of claims within 40 days, and we believe that this process is resourced properly.
Peter Aldous
Con
Waveney
Question
No current or former sub-postmaster in the Waveney constituency had been in touch with me before today. I have received two emails today from constituents whose lives have effectively been destroyed. How many people were simply bullied and intimidated into keeping quiet and paying up? And what justice and recompense will be available to them?
Minister reply
Although it is tragic to hear that anyone has been involved, it is good to hear that people are coming forward. I am very happy to make sure that my hon. Friend’s constituents are pointed in the right direction and have access to the appropriate scheme for compensation.
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Glasgow South West
Question
Even a postie who failed to deliver mail faced a custodial sentence. This is worse and it is wider. It is a conspiracy by those with reputational, financial, and institutional interests to bury the little person and obtain convictions. Will the Minister seek to ensure that nobody is above the rule of law?
Minister reply
That is exactly what we want to do and that is why we set up the statutory inquiry to try to identify culpability and responsibility. Whether it leads to corporate sanctions or individuals facing prosecution, that is absolutely right.
Dean Russell
Con
Watford
Question
The Horizon scandal was an absolute travesty. My thanks go to Alan Bates for his relentless work to stand up for victims. While I am very aware of the legal complexities, will my hon. Friend confirm that he is working at the highest level of Government to ensure that any blockages or delays are cleared through? Does he agree that every MP should read 'The Great Post Office Scandal' by Nick Wallis?
Minister reply
I thank my hon. Friend for his work as one of my predecessors. The Prime Minister is taking a personal interest in these matters, and I had a meeting with the Justice Secretary today, who offered positive ways forward in the next few days.
Toby Perkins
Lab
Chesterfield
Question
Mr Singh Butoy lost his business, home, was bankrupted, and sentenced to 18 months in prison for something he knew he had never done. Justice is not just getting him compensation; it is seeing those who sat by knowing he was a victim face justice themselves. What can the Minister say about how we can ensure that this process does not go on for years?
Minister reply
It is tragic to hear about Mr Singh Butoy’s case. We are keen to deliver rapid compensation and hold people accountable. Once a conviction has been overturned, there should be access to rapid compensation through the fixed-sum award or full assessment route.
Siobhan Baillie
Con
Stroud
Question
As my hon. Friend knows from meetings and debates, my constituent, sub-postmistress Nichola Arch, moved me to tears when she described the public shaming and abuse that happened in our usually kind Stroud constituency at the time of the scandal. Her grown-up child has only ever known her as the post office lady fighting faceless corporations who lost jobs and her house in the meantime. Given how people were treated and their losses, there is no one type of victim. That makes the issue hellishly complicated and it is really difficult to compile evidence. Will my hon. Friend use the national energy now behind this case to work with his excellent officials, who have worked incredibly hard on this, to simplify the schemes yet further? For example, could the £600,000 lump sum be done at levels that require limited and defined evidence, so that people are not exhausted yet further?
Minister reply
I thank my hon. Friend for her question and her work on behalf of Nichola Arch, whose case is one of the most prominent in this scandal. She is right to say that assessing loss is complicated, which is exactly why I work with officials. We are working on a daily basis. My hon. Friend is also right to say that the fixed-sum award for overturned convictions simplified things significantly. A significant number of people have full and final settlements on an overturned conviction—30 people have chosen that route so far. But I hear what my hon. Friend is saying about a simplified process in other areas of compensation. That is certainly something we are working on and looking at wherever we can.
Rupa Huq
Lab
Ealing Central and Acton
Question
ITV and the power of drama deserve our praise for galvanising Government action far faster than the questions I have been asking here since 2020. As well as Mr Bates there was Mr Patel, who was forced to give a false confession to avoid prison. He had the humiliation of attending the graduation of his son, my constituent Varchas, while electronically tagged. Despite Mr Patel’s conviction having been quashed in 2020, he has had zilch compensation and suffered huge ill health. Can the Minister sort that, make sure that heads roll and make good on Paula Vennells’s promise to me in 2018, when she pulled the plug on Acton crown post office, that we will get a post office again? We are still waiting.
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Lady for her question and work on behalf of Mr Patel. If Mr Patel’s conviction was overturned in 2020, he should have received £163,000 in interim compensation, which was made available to anybody with an overturned conviction. He can also access two routes: either a fixed-sum award of £600,000 or the full assessment route. One route is undoubtedly quicker than the other due to the complex nature of assessing claims. I agree with the hon. Lady about people being held accountable, as I said in my statement and in response to other Members. Picking up her point about Acton post office, Paula Vennells does not have much influence over that any more, but we can ask questions about that on the hon. Lady’s behalf.
Derek Thomas
Con
St Ives
Question
When I first became an MP, I met two constituents who had suffered as a result of the Horizon scandal. I was struck by the utter betrayal they felt. They had lost the job they loved and that they had seen as a form of public service, serving their community for many decades. I welcome everything that the Minister has set out on future action, but may I push back gently on his suggestion that the network is in a good place today and that there was no reputational damage? In the town of Porthleven and in Newlyn, a large village, we cannot get a business to touch the Post Office. Can the Minister do more work to restore the reputation of the Post Office, so that people have the service of a sub-postmaster or sub-postmistress where they need them?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is right to point out the nature of the public service provided by sub-postmasters. The great passion and the store set by sub-postmasters about their role in the community came across loud and clear in the ITV broadcast. It was not just about losing a job, but about losing their place in the community. We are working towards resolving these situations quickly now for the reputation of the Post Office, overturning convictions and getting compensation out. The post office network is still revered across the country at an individual level, but we must make the network more sustainable and viable to attract more sub-postmasters.
Kirsten Oswald
SNP
Aberdeen North
Question
Many constituents have contacted me looking for swift and straightforward action. I am interested in what the Minister has outlined, but it will be important to see further flesh on the bones as we progress, and very quickly. I would like to hear more from him about how we can best deal with those hard-to-reach cases, such as people who may have walked away absolutely scunnered and significantly out of pocket, who may not come forward without the concerted action that they deserve. The protracted nature of the issue has dampened people’s enthusiasm for taking on a post office—we cannot shy away from that and our communities deserve that we do not do so. In my constituency, the post office in Neilston will close on Saturday in what is known as a “temporary closure”, but it is only temporary if someone will come forward to take it on. Too many communities in East Renfrewshire and further afield do not have post offices, which are essential.
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Lady for her question. We need to make the compensation schemes and the overturning of convictions swifter and more straightforward. We are keen to deliver a solution that does not require sub-postmasters to come forward in order for us to overturn a conviction, as has been called for by Members of this House. We provide significant financial support of £50 million a year for rural post offices. We think increasing the remuneration opportunities for postmasters is the route that will ensure people will come forward and run post offices in rural locations.
Paul Howell
Con
Sleaford and North Hykeham
Question
I apologise because this will obviously be repetitive, but the actions and governance of the Post Office have been incomprehensible. Many people will only have realised what has happened because they saw the ITV programme—I encourage them all to come to me or to any other MP if they do not know where to go to. For me, the most shocking aspect, as has been repeated across the House, was the number of people who were told they were the only one. The obvious cover-up from people within the Post Office delivering those statements is wrong, shocking and outrageous. Can I encourage the Minister to do everything he can to ensure that those people feel the full force of the law so that the sub-postmasters, who are the real victims, feel like they have got some justice at the end of this outrageous situation?
Minister reply
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I reassure him that repetition is no barrier to contribution in this place. We heard the words “You’re the only one” time and again in those dramatisations. It was horrific, a blatant lie, and somebody must have known that it was a blatant lie. Those lies led to some people going to jail and others suffering other forms of financial detriment, and detriment to their health and that of their families. Should prosecutions flow from that wherever possible? I would say yes.
Birmingham, Edgbaston
Question
I share the thoughts of almost everyone—there has been almost cross-party unanimity on this issue—but I am still worried about the ongoing treatment of sub-postmasters and their liability. In 2018, my local post office was subject to an armed robbery. Those who ran the post office were hauled up to the regional office, where they were interrogated. They felt like criminals. They were not allowed to bring their reps from the Communication Workers Union; they were told they could bring reps only from the National Federation of SubPostmasters, which they had no trust in. In the end, although of course they were found not to have given over the money willingly, they left and handed over the post office to someone else. There is a problem with the liability of sub-postmasters, and particularly the fact that the Post Office has closed Crown post offices, which would not have such liability. Will the Minister look again at how liability works for sub-postmasters? I echo the calls that we should look again at private prosecutions.
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Member for raising that troubling case, which I am happy to look into on his behalf. Since 2018, there has been a change in relationship between the Post Office and the network. On private prosecutions, as I said earlier, we should look at that in the context of this particular scandal as well as the wider connotations of private prosecutions. The Justice Secretary has committed to do that, and I am sure that he will report to the House in due course.
James Sunderland
Con
Bracknell
Question
The Minister has provided three key assurances: rapid compensation for victims, overturning wrongful convictions, and holding accountable those responsible. Does the minister agree? Can he reassure constituents that a judicial system which presided over wrongful convictions will be reviewed?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is right; rapid and fair compensation is exactly what we are seeking to deliver, along with an easier route to overturning convictions. He raises an important point on the judicial system's trust in computer records which needs to be addressed.
Alan Brown
SNP
Clydebank and Milport
Question
The minister is aware that this scandal affects those falsely accused but not prosecuted, such as a constituent who lost her post office franchise and main business due to false accusations. Can the Minister confirm eligibility for compensation and provide details on accessing it? What about deceased victims' families?
Minister reply
There are three compensation schemes: Horizon shortfall scheme, group litigation order scheme, and overturned conviction scheme. The hon. Gentleman’s constituent fits into the Horizon shortfall scheme and can apply to that route. Families of deceased individuals can also claim through these schemes.
Robin Millar
Lab
Huyton
Question
The minister agrees with the need for prompt payment of fair compensation, legislation for overturning unsafe convictions, considering powers of the Post Office and Fujitsu’s status as a framework provider. Does he agree that we need to see justice where actual wrongdoing has occurred soon?
Minister reply
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for his work on this issue. Our discussions with the Lord Chancellor are along the lines of attempting something unprecedented in this space, and we will provide more definite answers in coming days.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
The minister oversees not just a vital reimbursement scheme but an official pardoning scheme to have the records wiped in England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. Will he ensure the same justice and compensation for those people as well?
Minister reply
We are determined to do that UK-wide by working with devolved Administrations. Anybody who has not seen the programme should watch it to understand the brutality of the Post Office Horizon scheme.
Neil Hudson
Con
Epping Forest
Question
The minister will reassure me, the House and the country that this Government will do all they can to compensate all victims as soon as possible, including by looking at exonerating them all collectively?
Minister reply
We are looking for a process where all victims can be compensated quickly. We have compensation schemes in place already; 64% of those affected have been compensated. On overturning convictions, we are considering collective exoneration to see what is legally possible.
Michael Shanks
Lab
Rutherglen
Question
The Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission identified potential victims in Scotland but only a fraction has come forward. Will the minister confirm that he and the Lord Chancellor will take a mass exoneration scheme forward in England to ensure justice for all victims across the UK?
Minister reply
We are looking at a mass exoneration scheme as described by the hon. Member, which would mean more people get access to justice more quickly. We cannot confirm it today but we certainly think that is the right thing to do.
Question
As a former sub-postmaster, I have mentioned Fujitsu's involvement in this scandal five times. With the back door into the live system being a key contributor to this scandal, when will Fujitsu face justice for its incompetence and contribute compensation to affected postmasters?
Minister reply
The minister thanked Duncan Baker for his contributions and noted that the inquiry is committed to concluding by the end of 2023. The inquiry aims to identify those responsible and ensure they pay for their actions, rather than burdening taxpayers.
Sarah Edwards
Lab
Tamworth
Question
Where were the checks and balances in the system when accounting software was being used? Why are we only now hearing about a failed pilot that could have prevented this miscarriage of justice?
Minister reply
Kevin Hollinrake acknowledged Sarah Edwards' points, noting the need for the inquiry to establish where the oversight failures occurred. He highlighted that the inquiry is statutory and thus has greater investigative powers.
Hitchin
Question
Can you provide a timeline for when everyone affected will receive compensation, and all wrongful convictions will be overturned? How will accountability, including that of Fujitsu, be ensured?
Minister reply
The minister thanked Alistair Strathern for his concerns and stated the goal is to deliver compensation by August 2023. He also noted efforts to overturn convictions as quickly as possible, ideally within weeks rather than months.
Shadow Comment
Jonathan Reynolds
Shadow Comment
The shadow Secretary of State thanked the minister for his statement and recognised the progress made in addressing the Horizon scandal. However, he emphasised that significant work remains to achieve full justice for victims. Labour calls for all sub-postmasters to be exonerated fully and supports any measures required to overturn convictions speedily without retraumatising victims. The shadow Secretary expressed concern about potential additional victims from a pilot scheme recently identified and urged the government to ensure these individuals come forward. He also highlighted the need for investigations into Fujitsu’s role, as well as scrutiny of those involved in Post Office leadership who received honours during the scandal.
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