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Ukraine
22 October 2024
Lead MP
John Healey
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
UkraineDefence
Other Contributors: 33
At a Glance
John Healey raised concerns about ukraine in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
John Healey, the Defence Secretary of the UK, delivered a statement on the support provided to Ukraine. Following NATO and G7 meetings, he announced an additional £2.26 billion in military aid for Ukraine. This funding is part of a $50 billion loan package from G7 countries that will be repaid using profits generated from frozen Russian assets. Healey emphasised that this new money complements the existing commitments of £3 billion annually and the £3.5 billion defence industrial support treaty signed with Ukraine. The minister highlighted recent battlefield developments, including Ukrainian forces holding Russian territory in Kursk despite ongoing counter-attacks by Russia. Additionally, he addressed a concerning development involving potential North Korean military involvement in Russia's war against Ukraine, stressing the serious security implications for Europe and elsewhere.
James Cartlidge
Con
South Suffolk
Question
Cartlidge inquired about the UK’s response to potential North Korean military involvement in Russia's war and asked for details on the timing of the £2.26 billion loan disbursement.
Minister reply
Healey responded by confirming ongoing assessments and countermeasures against arms trade between Russia and North Korea, including sanctions imposed by previous governments. He emphasised the need to disrupt co-operation between these nations but did not provide specific details regarding the immediate disbursement of funds.
James Cartlidge
Con
South Suffolk
Question
Expressed condolences for Corporal Gill and recognised his service in training Ukrainian soldiers. Discussed the threat of North Korean involvement with Russia, questioning how UK should respond to this latest development, including military aid to Ukraine and defence spending commitments.
Minister reply
Acknowledged condolences for Corporal Gill and confirmed extension of Interflex programme until 2025. Addressed concerns over North Korea-Russia alliance and stated unanimous determination in the House to take necessary actions. Clarified that funds from frozen Russian assets will be available early next year. Reiterated commitment to spending 2.5% on defence.
Tan Dhesi
Lab
Slough
Question
Inquired about discussions at NATO Defence Ministers meeting regarding support for Ukraine and updates on Storm Shadow missile usage.
Minister reply
Reported unanimous commitment among 32 nations to deliver extra $40 billion pledge for Ukraine. Stated determination to speed up delivery of promised aid since day one post-election. Rejected discussion on specific weapons like Storm Shadow, focusing instead on broad support provided by UK.
Helen Maguire
Lib Dem
Epsom and Ewell
Question
Welcomed new measures for using profits of frozen assets but urged seizing remaining £22 billion in assets immediately. Raised concerns about potential impact of US elections on support for Ukraine.
Minister reply
Acknowledged efforts to unlock funds from frozen Russian assets. Emphasised practical steps being taken and significant move with funding announcement, urging support for introducing primary legislation.
Emma Lewell
Lab
South Shields
Question
Asked for update on recently signed defence export treaty between UK and Ukraine.
Minister reply
Proudly mentioned signing of treaty allowing Ukraine to contract with UK companies, facilitating procurement of munitions and ammunition. Emphasised importance in stepping up provision and production of military aid.
Mark Francois
Con
Rayleigh and Wickford
Question
I welcome the statement, but the BBC reports that the money will be paid not in one go but in tranches over time. Will the Secretary of State assure us that, given that the money is an “exceptional item”, it will in no way be included in the overall defence budget next week?
Minister reply
The right hon. Gentleman can rest assured that the funding is a one-off and additional, set to be paid out over time as needed by Ukraine. It will not affect or bolster the current defence budget.
Derek Twigg
Lab
Widnes and Halewood
Question
How quickly can we ensure that extra munitions, artillery and missiles from the alliance and G7 get to Ukraine given they are being outgunned three to one in artillery by Russia?
Minister reply
We aim to provide these resources as soon as possible. The UK has announced a contract for 650 lightweight multirole missiles (LMMs) which will be available from early next year, with plans to increase production throughout 2025.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Question
Will the Secretary of State reassure us that at least President Macron is now fully on board with the NATO alliance and France’s important contribution to it?
Minister reply
I can confirm that during the NATO Defence Ministers’ talks, there was no indication of any past reservations. The French commitment to supporting Ukraine remains strong as ever.
Calvin Bailey
Lab
Leyton and Wanstead
Question
What action is my right hon. Friend taking to boost UK defence industrial production to support the Ukrainian armed forces?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend, we have fundamentally changed our procurement approach over 973 days, enabling British industry to innovate and produce military equipment rapidly in response to Ukraine’s needs.
Mike Martin
Lib Dem
Tunbridge Wells
Question
Do the Government think that Ukraine is winning or losing?
Minister reply
Ukraine faces significant pressure but continues fighting a counter-offensive, and international support for Ukraine must be stepped up to ensure it can withstand Russia’s offensive.
Cat Eccles
Lab
Stourbridge
Question
Does my right hon. Friend agree that Ukraine is the frontier of war with the Kremlin, and defence of the UK begins in Ukraine?
Minister reply
Absolutely correct; Defence Ministers at Brussels confirmed this sentiment and emphasised the need for strong international support to defend Europe.
Roger Gale
Con
Herne Bay and Sandwich
Question
Is it not now time that all matériel supplied to Ukraine by the western alliance should be used by Ukraine in the manner that it sees fit?
Minister reply
We provide weapons for Ukraine’s defence, and there is no bar on Ukrainian strikes against Russian military targets consistent with international humanitarian law.
Fred Thomas
Lab
Plymouth Moor View
Question
Will we learn from our friends in Ukraine and invest in our own small and medium-sized defence enterprises?
Minister reply
We are indeed taking lessons learned to support UK forces better for future conflicts, building on the successes of equipping Ukraine.
Dave Doogan
SNP
Angus and Perthshire Glens
Question
How has UK shell production grown in terms of numeric or percentage?
Minister reply
UK shell production is increasing to meet Ukrainian needs, as evidenced by the growing production of short-range air defence missiles.
Johanna Baxter
Lab
Paisley and Renfrewshire South
Question
Can my right hon. Friend say more about North Korean soldiers supporting Russia’s war?
Minister reply
We are closely monitoring the cooperation between North Korea, Russia, and Iran; this is a dangerous development for Ukraine and European security.
Mark Pritchard
Con
The Wrekin
Question
Is he edging towards declaring that Ukraine can use long-range missiles to hit military targets in Russia?
Minister reply
We have stepped up support for Ukraine but there has been no change in the basis on which we provide such support.
Clive Betts
Lab
Sheffield South East
Question
I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement and his clear personal commitment. It is very expensive for Putin to fight this war, but he is getting a lot of money from the sale of oil. There are real concerns that British firms, or firms with British connections, are facilitating and enabling the illegal oil trade. What more can be done, in co-operation with the Foreign Secretary, to ensure that sanctions are more effective against the Russian oil trade?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is right. It is not just that we can confirm today that we are making the additional loan money available to the Ukrainians; it is also important to remember that the sanctions themselves are responsible for freezing at least $400 billion that Russia would otherwise be able to use to feed its war machine. The UK Government and others have taken steps on the shadow fleet—the shipping in the grey zone, trying to avoid sanctions—but wherever we have the evidence required to act and sanction, we will do that and we will continue to do that.
Suella Braverman
Con
Fareham and Waterlooville
Question
Not only is a full battalion of North Korean soldiers set to be deployed to assist Russia in Ukraine, but Putin is benefiting from components and weapons provided by the Iranians and the Chinese. This all represents an unprecedented conflation of threats to global security. I echo the question asked by hon. Friend the shadow Defence Secretary: the commitment to invest 2.5% of GDP is right, but when will that be backed up with action?
Minister reply
The right hon. Lady is right. We totally condemn North Korea’s involvement and support for Russia, from arms transfer to any further developments. As I said in my statement, that is in breach of multiple UN resolutions and we continue to watch the situation.
Phil Brickell
Lab
Bolton West
Question
Will the Secretary of State join me in paying tribute to the UK armed forces who are providing vital support to our Ukrainian allies, and to the Ukrainian armed forces who are fighting valiantly against Putin’s unlawful invasion of Ukraine?
Minister reply
I will indeed. I have had the privilege of visiting Interflex training courses four times now. It is deeply moving to see the level of commitment of British forces to the task of training the Ukrainians, and to spend time with those Ukrainian recruits who are fighting for their country and their freedom.
Andrew Murrison
Con
South West Wiltshire
Question
I very much welcome this £2.26 billion, but has the Defence Secretary had the opportunity to study the National Audit Office report published last month into the impact of our operations in Ukraine, particularly Operation Interflex, on the availability of the defence estate for the training of units of the British Army? While that is acceptable in the short term, in the long term it probably is not. What impact assessment has he carried out, and what proposals does he have to make available the defence estate we need to train British soldiers?
Minister reply
Nothing will shake our commitment to continuing the Interflex training programme. We are determined and we will continue that throughout 2025. On the National Audit Office report, I have indeed read that report. It is a welcome change from the normal run of National Audit Office reports into the Ministry of Defence that we have been used to in recent years. It praises a good deal of what has been done by the Ministry of Defence in support of Ukraine.
Graeme Downie
Lab
Dunfermline and Dollar
Question
I thank the Secretary of State for his very welcome statement. He mentioned the importance of the Ukrainian forces’ efforts in the Black sea against the Russian Black Sea Fleet and how important that is to the Ukrainian economy. Could he go a little further and describe how this funding for Ukraine will help to ensure that security and perhaps go even further in the Black Sea?
Minister reply
The principle behind this funding is that we put it in the hands of the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians are in the best position—and must be in the position—to decide how best to use it. We have said that they can use it entirely on military support if they choose to do so; the support that they choose to procure with it will be a matter for them, in discussion with us.
David Mundell
Con
Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale
Question
Is the Defence Secretary able to share with us any conversations that the Foreign Secretary had while in China about China’s engagement in this situation, and particularly its willingness to bring to bear the influence that it undoubtedly has on both Russia and North Korea?
Minister reply
Happily, I can indeed. The Foreign Secretary was in China on 18 and 19 October. He met his counterpart, the Foreign Minister, and talked about the areas on which our countries may disagree, including on Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine.
Kevin Bonavia
Lab
Stevenage
Question
I, too, very much welcome today’s statement from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. It provides evidence not just of warm words, but of real practical support for our ally in its desperate hour of need. But this country cannot do this on its own. Can he update the House on any discussions that he or his ministerial colleagues have had with our friends in the rest of the G7 on combating Putin through economic measures?
Minister reply
I can indeed do so. I came away from the G7 meeting in Naples and from the meeting of NATO Defence Ministers in Brussels reinforced in my view that there is a determination not just to stand with Ukraine now, but to do so for as long as it takes. I will send my hon. Friend a copy of the communiqué from both meetings.
Richard Foord
Lib Dem
Honiton and Sidmouth
Question
I welcome the announcement of the acceleration loan scheme. I also welcome the timing; the British Government are not simply waiting to see the outcome of the US presidential election, as some other Governments are doing. Will the Defence Secretary repeat the assurance he gave in the House last week that, regardless of US policy, military aid to Ukraine from European NATO nations will not decrease next year?
Minister reply
We are determined, on the contrary, to maintain and step up the military aid required from the UK. I found a similar determination from Defence Ministers across the NATO nations.
Torcuil Crichton
Lab
Na h-Eileanan an Iar
Question
I thank the Secretary of State for this additional £2.26 billion for Ukraine, which will find a strong echo from the hundreds and thousands of individuals across this country who have opened their doors to Ukrainian refugees, and in many charities and organisations such as Jeeps for Peace in Scotland, which sends direct aid by taking pick-ups across Europe to the frontline. Does this money and the individual support from Britain not show that we will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes?
Minister reply
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his thanks, but those thanks should really go to the Chancellor, because the Treasury has led the work on ensuring that we can put in place this new system of loans and make this additional money available to Ukraine.
Ben Obese-Jecty
Con
Huntingdon
Question
It is concerning that we have received only the briefest of updates in this House on the direct involvement of North Korean troops, after one week of it being widely reported in the media. Last week, during Defence questions, the right hon. Gentleman gave his full-throated support for Ukraine but made no mention of the Government’s awareness of the potential deployment of North Korean reinforcements up to brigade strength. What is the Government’s current assessment of the scope of North Korean involvement, and how do overt North Korean boots on the ground in Ukraine necessitate a change in our posture?
Minister reply
I have just given the House the assessment of the involvement and the extent, at present, of the involvement of North Korean troops.
Blair McDougall
Lab
East Renfrewshire
Question
Given the potential of North Korean boots on the ground joining Iranian drones in the air above Ukraine, it seems clear that the calculus that Russia is operating to is very different from that of the western alliance. Does the Secretary of State agree that there is a risk that, when the fear of escalation is one-sided, that itself becomes escalatory? Therefore, while welcoming the additional support that he has announced today, I wonder whether he will join me in saying that it is time for other countries to follow the lead that the UK has shown today.
Minister reply
Wherever there are signs of the breaching of UN resolutions and sanctions or of a dangerous escalation in support of Russia, we will act. We have acted before.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
Asked the Secretary of State for caution when expressing opinions on the US presidential race and reaffirmed the need to stand against Russian aggression.
Minister reply
Acknowledged the need for caution but emphasised the united support in the House for Ukraine, regardless of who is elected as the next president.
Tim Roca
Lab
Macclesfield
Question
Welcomed the statement and asked about discussions among NATO nations regarding aid disparity.
Minister reply
Confirmed that there were robust discussions on the level of commitment to Ukraine and NATO, noting 23 out of 32 NATO nations meeting the 2% GDP threshold.
Joe Powell
Lab
Kensington and Bayswater
Question
Asked about realising assets from the sale of Chelsea football club for humanitarian needs in Ukraine.
Minister reply
Acknowledged the case made by the hon. Member and confirmed that discussions are ongoing.
Gordon McKee
Lab
Glasgow South
Question
Inquired about work done to prevent Russia from accessing western-made semiconductors.
Minister reply
Replied that the Minister of State is actively working with other countries to identify and close supply chains involved in smuggling semiconductors.
Alex Ballinger
Lab
Halesowen
Question
Asked about boosting defence industrial supply chains, particularly in the West Midlands.
Minister reply
Emphasised the importance of British defence industry and its role in national security and economic growth.
Shadow Comment
James Cartlidge
Shadow Comment
James Cartlidge, Shadow Defence Secretary, expressed condolences to Corporal Christopher Gill's family and thanked those involved in training Ukrainian soldiers. He welcomed the G7 joint declaration and additional funding for Ukraine but shared concerns about North Korea’s potential involvement in supporting Russia's invasion. Cartlidge urged the government to respond robustly to this threat by considering diplomatic tools and reassessing military aid, including long-range missile usage freedoms. He called on John Healey to provide specific details regarding the timing of the £2.26 billion loan disbursement and reiterated the need for Britain to adhere to a 2.5% defence spending commitment.
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