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Ukraine
10 September 2024
Lead MP
John Healey
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
UkraineDefenceTaxation
Other Contributors: 25
At a Glance
John Healey raised concerns about ukraine in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
The Minister paid tribute to the late Royal Naval pilot Lieutenant Rhodri Leyshon, expressing condolences for his family. Emphasising that it has been 930 days since Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine began, Healey highlighted the bravery and resilience of Ukrainian forces despite relentless attacks on civilians. Since Labour was in opposition, they have supported every package of military aid, sanctions against Russia, and civilian support schemes such as Homes for Ukraine. As Defence Secretary, John Healey announced a new £3 billion commitment to UK military support for Ukraine annually until it is no longer needed. In the first week, significant support was provided, including ammunition, missiles, artillery guns, and a pledge to expedite deliveries previously committed by the previous government. Further steps have been taken since, such as signing a £3.5 billion defence industrial support treaty, reaching the £1 billion milestone for the International Fund for Ukraine, advancing UK-led maritime and drone capability coalitions, and agreeing on a new £300 million contract for artillery shells. Healey also mentioned that Ukrainian forces launched an offensive in Kursk, reclaiming 900 sq km of territory. He assured that UK support will continue through Operation Interflex training programme extending until 2025, emphasising both short-term and long-term provision.
James Cartlidge
Con
South Suffolk
Question
The shadow Minister questioned whether Britain’s support had slowed down recently as mentioned by President Zelensky. He also underlined the importance of ensuring maximum freedom of operation for Ukrainian forces with regard to all supplied munitions, including long-range missiles. Furthermore, he highlighted that a key part of our leadership has been bringing other allies on board and stressed the need for replenishing UK’s own stockpiles and platform inventory as part of the 2.5% commitment. Cartlidge asked about the specific £10 billion allocated for this purpose and requested confirmation that there would be no deferment in major munitions orders due to delays.
Minister reply
John Healey responded by confirming that Britain’s support remains strong, reiterating recent steps taken including signing a new £3.5 billion defence industrial support treaty and reaching the £1 billion milestone for the International Fund for Ukraine. He stressed the commitment towards ensuring maximum freedom of operation for Ukrainian forces with all supplied munitions, maintaining leadership in bringing allies on board. Regarding replenishment of UK stockpiles and platform inventory, Healey confirmed the urgency but did not provide specific assurances against deferment of major orders due to delays.
James Cartlidge
Con
South Suffolk
Question
The hon. Member welcomes the announcement of £160 million for air defence missiles but asks if that remains a priority and whether lessons learned from drone deployment will be rapidly applied to build the ecosystem for our own sovereign uncrewed sector?
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his support and commitment to continuing military aid to Ukraine, including £160 million contract for lightweight multi-role missiles. We are learning the lessons of drones’ deployment but need to speed that up.
James Cartlidge
Con
South Suffolk
Question
The hon. Member asks about long-range missile sensitivity issues and confirms support for 2.5% defence spending, asking if the delay in setting out a clear timetable will lead to deferment of major munitions orders?
Minister reply
There has been no change in the UK’s position on providing military aid to Ukraine. On 2.5%, we are committed to increasing defence spending to that level despite delays.
Derek Twigg
Lab
Widnes and Halewood
Question
The hon. Member welcomes the statement about investment in LMM defence and asks for more detail on its scope?
Minister reply
Ukraine needs new supplies of ammunition and stronger air defence systems capable of taking down Russian missiles and drones. We are stepping up support with an extra £160 million through a short-range modern air defence system, the first deliveries to Ukraine will be before the end of the year.
Richard Foord
Lib Dem
Honiton and Sidmouth
Question
The hon. Member adds tributes for Lieutenant Rhodri Leyshon and mentions training inadequacies by Russian troops compared to those trained under Operation Interflex, asking about contingency planning if US support drops?
Minister reply
Lieutenant Leyshon's family will appreciate the comments made. The relationship between the UK and US has been long-standing and will continue regardless of election results. We are committed to training Ukrainian forces better prepared and trained than their Russian adversaries.
Tan Dhesi
Lab
Slough
Question
Let us be under no illusion: in the face of Russian aggression and invasion, the defence of the UK starts in Ukraine. My right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary was right to focus not only on the immediate challenges facing Ukraine but on the longer-term imperatives. Does he agree that the UK-Ukraine friendship is not just for the short term or for as long as it takes, but must endure in the years and decades to come?
Minister reply
I do indeed. A lot of attention is given to military aid to support Ukraine’s short-term needs—its immediate battlefield requirements—but in the longer term we need to reinforce Ukraine’s capacity to produce for itself. That is why an important element of the steps we have taken to step up support for Ukraine, since the election just two months ago, has been to sign a defence export treaty, which I was privileged to sign with Defence Minister Umerov in No. 10 Downing Street. It provides some £3.5 billion-worth of export credit guarantees that will help us do more to get the equipment Ukraine needs manufactured and exported, and into Ukrainian hands for its fight against Putin’s invasion.
Gavin Williamson
Con
Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge
Question
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his statement. People in Ukraine are facing great challenges, and we can see how much resource Russia is throwing at the situation. Most colleagues on the Government Benches feel it is time for Storm Shadow to be allowed to be used with freedom by the Ukrainian people. Will the right hon. Gentleman set out the legal restrictions that are stopping that from happening? Conflicting briefings have been coming out of Government.
Minister reply
That is not a matter I am prepared to discuss openly, as such a debate would benefit Putin. The principle upon which this country has given, and will continue to give, weapons to Ukraine is that those weapons support Ukraine’s defence and its right to self-defence as a sovereign nation. To do so, across the board, does not preclude Ukraine from striking targets in Russia, if that is part of that determination and strategy for self-defence and provided it is within the bounds of international humanitarian law.
Blair McDougall
Lab
East Renfrewshire
Question
Without wishing for one second to diminish the threat of Putin’s Russia or the sacrifices that Ukrainians continue to make, I note that Moscow’s airport was closed by Ukrainian drone attacks this morning, that the Russian central bank will raise interest rates to 18% on Friday, and that half a million Russian troops have been killed. All of that has been inflicted by a country that is a third of the size of Russia. Does the Secretary of State share my frustration that so many people in the west seem to accept the misinformation war—Putin’s version of events that this war is going swimmingly for him—when any rational assessment of the events of the last two and a half years shows that they have been an absolute catastrophe for Russia?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is right. Part of the battle that Putin is waging is with his own people—to control their freedoms, including taking steps to assassinate political opponents, and their right to freedom of information. One thing that has put President Putin under pressure is that Ukraine has taken 900 sq km of territory in the Kursk region to defend its own cities and centres in the north. That has brought home to President Putin and the Russian people the consequences of his aggression, and shown that this is not a special operation, simply confined to Ukraine. Ukraine has the right to self-defence. In doing so, Ukraine is trying to defend itself better by striking targets in Russia from where the Russians are launching the deadly attacks from which Ukrainian civilians, cities and power systems have suffered for too long.
Andrew Murrison
Con
South West Wiltshire
Question
What assessment has the Defence Secretary made of Operation Renovator and how does he plan to change it?
Minister reply
The right hon. Gentleman asks a question with a good deal more information than the rest of the House. I will write to him with the detail he seeks rather than trying to give a superficial answer from the Dispatch Box.
Dan Carden
Lab
Liverpool Walton
Question
I welcome the Defence Secretary’s statement, especially what he said about the deepening military and industrial strategy between the United Kingdom and Ukraine. There is clearly a growing alliance building between Russia and Iran, united in undermining democracy and risking further proxy wars. Will the Defence Secretary give his assessment on how the UK Government seek to influence Iran?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend follows these matters closely and speaks with authority in the House on these things. We have been warning—in fact, the previous Government were warning too—about the deepening security alliance between Iran and Russia. Part of the declaration, made alongside international partners, at the NATO summit in Washington warned Iran that any transfer not just of drone technology, but of ballistic missile technology to Russia would be regarded as a significant escalation. The House can take a broader lesson from my hon. Friend’s point: Iran’s destabilisation is not a malign influence that is simply felt throughout parts of the middle east, but has wider repercussions, which is why Iran is one of the most serious threats to this country in the future.
Dave Doogan
SNP
Angus and Perthshire Glens
Question
The Secretary of State can look forward to the same support for Ukraine’s defences from the SNP that the previous Government enjoyed. He mentioned increased air defences coming from the UK and the United States that will be in Ukraine before the end of the year. Russia will not wait until the end of the year before attacking civilian infrastructure, particularly energy infrastructure, so will the Secretary of State advise of any steps that have been taken to accelerate that increased air defence to the benefit of the people of Ukraine?
Minister reply
I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s continuing commitment and support, given on behalf of his party, to stand with Ukraine in this House. For some months, the Ukrainians have been saying they want delivery of the pledges of military aid to help with their fight against the illegal full-scale invasion; they want what has been promised to be in their hands. That is why when I first met President Zelensky, on my second day as Secretary of State for Defence, I made a point to not just say to him, “Right, this Government are willing to step up the support we are offering,” but to tell him that we recognise that imperative and will speed up the support we offer. We will speed up the delivery of the big package of aid announced by the previous Government in April, and we will try to say to President Zelensky, “Where we pledge our support, we will give you a guarantee about the delivery times by which it will be in your hands, to strengthen your fight for your sovereignty and against this illegal invasion.”
Johanna Baxter
Lab
Paisley and Renfrewshire South
Question
I strongly welcome the confirmation of the extension of Operation Interflex over this year and next. Will the Secretary of State join me in paying tribute to the hard work and professionalism of the UK troops involved in the operation, and the bravery of all the Ukrainian troops who are serving to protect their home?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend reminds the House of a very important point. Numbers are one thing—we can say that the UK has led the Operation Interflex nations to train 45,000 Ukrainian troops—but more importantly the expertise of British and other allied soldiers has helped to provide the Ukrainian soldiers who are stepping forward to help defend their country with combat medical skills, battlefield training and survival techniques. I had the privilege to join the then Leader of the Opposition on Salisbury plain to witness some of the training and, later, to talk to Ukrainian troops who had finished their training at Brize Norton as they were poised to fly back to Ukraine. They were men very much like any in this House—lorry drivers, accountants and public relations executives—who are now, alongside their civilian colleagues, fighting for the future of their country and the right to decide, as a sovereign nation, its future in the world. I pay tribute to their bravery and to the skill of our armed forces in helping to train them for that task.
Mark Francois
Con
Rayleigh and Wickford
Question
We have had a quote from Suvorov, and Napoleon famously said that “the moral is to the physical as three is to one.” After two and a half years of a barbaric Russian invasion, we cannot expect the Ukrainians to keep resisting with one hand tied behind their back. That means that, while the Russians attack power stations with long-range missiles at will with winter coming, and while they use glide bombs, which are brutally effective as tactical weapons on the frontline, we have to allow the Ukrainians full freedom of action to retaliate, not just as a military necessity, but to maintain their own morale. They must be bolstered to keep going. We could help them, and it is about time that we did that one thing.
Minister reply
The right hon. Gentleman makes his very strong points in his customary way. This is about not retaliation, but self-defence, and he is quite right to say that the impact of the “moral” often outweighs the impact of the physical. When I updated the House on the physical—the 900 sq km of the Kursk region that is now in Ukrainian hands—the “moral”, or morale, impact on Ukrainian troops and Ukrainian citizens has been huge, so just as it is putting pressure on Putin, it is also lifting the spirits of Ukraine after nearly 1,000 days of a bloody battle against Putin’s invasion.
Alan Gemmell
Lab
Central Ayrshire
Question
The Secretary of State spent the last Sunday of the election campaign in Prestwick, near our town’s world war two Polish war memorial. Within days, he was in Odesa and has stepped up and sped up the support that the UK is delivering. Does he agree that we have started as we mean to go on and that this Government will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes?
Minister reply
Yes, I do. It is a real pleasure to see my hon. Friend in his place. He brings expertise from a very wide field of foreign-policy affairs. I know that he will make a big contribution to this House, and if I made a small contribution to his election campaign, then I am doubly pleased to see him.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Question
The Secretary of State was a consistent supporter of Ukraine in opposition, so it is no surprise to hear that positive statement from him today. When he goes into battle with the Chancellor of the Exchequer for a good defence budget, will he remind her that, in the 1980s and the cold war, we regularly spent 4.5% to 5.1% of GDP on defence? Will he also assure the House that if America elects a President who does not wish to support Ukraine, the support for Ukraine by the remaining European members of NATO will intensify, not diminish?
Minister reply
When, as a Government, we declare that we are ready, we show that by stepping up support for Ukraine. We are a Government who will spend 2.5% of GDP on defence, increasing spending which is entirely the opposite of what happened when the previous government cut defence spending over their first five years by nearly 20%. I do not expect the US to walk away from Ukraine regardless of election results.
Tim Roca
Lab
Macclesfield
Question
May I thank the Secretary of State for his statement, but also the Ministers who have provided cross-party briefings to colleagues? It really is appreciated. President Zelensky has called on partners to ensure that aid packages that are announced are delivered to Ukrainians as quickly as possible. Will the Secretary of State set out the actions that the Government are taking to ensure that aid to Ukraine is sped up?
Minister reply
We undertake to deliver both pledges and deliveries swiftly, ensuring that support for Ukraine accelerates. I am able to update the Defence Minister in Ukraine on progress made towards each element of the pledged package.
Bernard Jenkin
Con
Harwich and North Essex
Question
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his statement. Even though he has announced nothing new today, I very much welcome that he is keeping this matter at the top of his and the nation’s agenda. Will he forgive those of us who can speak for continuing to press for the west to untie the hands of our Ukrainian allies, so that they can strike back at those who are striking at them illegally and without justification? May I wish him every success in helping us to deliver the freedom and security of the world by breaking the stalemate in Ukraine that will overwhelm the west if we allow it to continue?
Minister reply
I reaffirm my commitment to regular updates on developments regarding Ukraine. There are ongoing discussions with allies about providing support to our Ukrainian partners.
Kevin Bonavia
Lab
Stevenage
Question
I, too, welcome the Secretary of State’s statement and his wholehearted commitment of this country to the defence of our ally in its hour of need in the face of Putin’s aggression. Will the Secretary of State explain what steps he and his Department can take to speed up the process of manufacturing missiles and other armaments?
Minister reply
We will build on procurement reforms and industrial strategy driven by the need for faster decision-making, better value for money, and regular updates on equipment development and technology.
Iqbal Mohamed
Ind
Dewsbury and Batley
Question
I congratulate the Defence Secretary and his Ministers and welcome them to their place. In addition to the military support provided, will the Secretary of State update the House on what diplomatic efforts are being made to negotiate an end to the Russian aggression, a full withdrawal from Ukraine and a return to peaceful co-existence as soon as possible?
Minister reply
It is the Ukrainians who are fighting and deciding when to stop. Our task is to reinforce them now for future negotiations.
Graeme Downie
Lab
Dunfermline and Dollar
Question
One of the key features throughout the statement and the discussion today has been the importance of consensus and co-operation in building a coalition. Will the Secretary of State give an update on what steps he intends to take next to ensure that we are supporting Ukraine with the broadest and best coalition possible?
Minister reply
The 24th Ramstein meeting took place last week, featuring senior representatives from 50 countries pledging more military support for Ukraine. We remain united in our resolute stance.
Alec Shelbrooke
Con
Wetherby and Easingwold
Question
I very much welcome the Secretary of State’s statement. May I ask that, as we move into the strategic defence review, a NATO-led missile intercept system is something that he discusses? It is quite a hole in the defence of Europe at this moment in time.
Minister reply
The strategic defence review welcomes contributions from all parties and will consider propositions such as the NATO-led missile intercept system.
Scott Arthur
Lab
Edinburgh South West
Question
I thank the Secretary of State for outlining the death toll of Putin’s brutal war. What discussions has the Secretary of State had with partners about potential nuclear incidents in Ukraine?
Minister reply
We support the Ukrainian effort to gather evidence required for legal cases against Russian leaders responsible for war crimes, including documenting 135,000 reported incidents.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
I thank very much the Secretary of State for his statement and his very clear commitment to Ukraine and its people. Everyone in this House supports exactly what he is saying and we thank him for it. With the breaking news that Ukraine has sent drones to Moscow and central Russia, it is clear that technology is very much at the forefront of this conflict. Will the Secretary of State underline the technical support that the Government have made available to our Ukrainian friends, and say whether we can be of further assistance to bring this war to an end to allow Ukrainian children back into education and Ukrainian families to rebuild their lives?
Minister reply
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who prompts me to say something that I did not give enough emphasis to. Never mind the Government support; the technology that he talks about, which is playing such a decisive role in the hands of the Ukrainians, is often developed and provided by the bright people in our and other countries’ industries. We pay tribute to all those in our British industrial and research companies, who in some cases are working with the Government and in some cases are working under contract to the Ukrainians to provide them with what they need to win this fight, to protect their country’s future and to regain their territorial integrity.
Calvin Bailey
Lab
Leyton and Wanstead
Question
I thank the Secretary of State for his statement and for the early opportunities he has provided for MPs from all parties to be briefed on the ongoing situation in Ukraine. I welcome the Government’s commitment and his personal commitment to keeping Members of the House updated regularly. May I ask that he ensures that the lessons identified from Ukraine, in particular those of the formations and structures that are allowing the Ukrainian forces to be so effective, are fed into the SDR?
Minister reply
Yes, indeed. My hon. Friend served until very close to the general election in a very distinguished and senior capacity in our forces, so I say to him, as I did to the right hon. Member for Wetherby and Easingwold (Sir Alec Shelbrooke), that the defence reviewers will welcome contributions from all sides of this House, particularly when Members who have such deep expertise are willing to make that available. I appreciate his welcome of this early statement and say to him that it will not be the last.
Shadow Comment
James Cartlidge
Shadow Comment
The shadow Minister acknowledged the Labour Government's commitment to supporting Ukraine but questioned whether Britain’s support had slowed down recently as mentioned by President Zelensky. He highlighted that Russia remains a formidable foe and emphasised the importance of ensuring maximum freedom of operation for Ukrainian forces with regard to all supplied munitions, including long-range missiles. The Conservative Benches agreed on the significance of supporting Ukraine but stressed the need for replenishing UK’s own stockpiles and platform inventory as part of the 2.5% commitment. Cartlidge asked about the specific £10 billion allocated for this purpose and requested confirmation that there would be no deferment in major munitions orders due to delays. He also underlined the importance of firing up production across the UK defence sector, urging an urgent commitment towards achieving 2.5%. Finally, he queried on current spending related to future combat air capability.
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