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Post Office Horizon Scandal
18 July 2024
Lead MP
Justin Madders
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
No tags
Other Contributors: 12
At a Glance
Justin Madders raised concerns about post office horizon scandal in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
Government Statement
The Minister congratulated the shadow Secretary of State on his new position, highlighting the Government's commitment to deliver justice and compensation swiftly for postmasters caught up in the Horizon scandal. He mentioned that the Secretary of State has met with key stakeholders such as Sir Alan Bates, Kevan Jones, and Nigel Railton to discuss progress. The Government plans to make a significant announcement on the new redress scheme before the summer recess, applying to those whose convictions have been overturned by the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Act 2024.
Kevin Hollinrake
Con
Thirsk and Malton
Question
The shadow Secretary expressed hope for cross-party cooperation in providing swift compensation to those affected by the Horizon scandal. He acknowledged that over £222 million has been paid out, but asked when the new redress scheme would be operational and detailed timelines for top-ups and appeal processes.
Minister reply
The Minister thanked Mr Speaker and confirmed that an announcement on the new redress scheme will be made by the end of July. He reiterated the Government's commitment to working closely with officials, victims, and affected individuals to finalise the details.
Jon Trickett
Lab
Normanton and Hemsworth
Question
The Member highlighted a wider societal issue wherein the establishment fails to listen to ordinary people’s voices, using examples like Orgreave, Grenfell, contaminated blood, and Hillsborough. He asked if the Minister would raise this matter with other Ministers.
Minister reply
The Minister acknowledged the point raised by his hon. Friend and stated that they will reflect on how best to ensure political accountability in such scenarios.
Alistair Carmichael
Lib Dem
Orkney and Shetland
Question
The Member welcomed the Minister back to his position and asked about evidence of cultural changes at the Post Office since the scandal. He questioned what evidence has been seen that the culture has changed.
Minister reply
The Minister noted that the current chief executive officer has stepped aside temporarily for the inquiry, and they will reflect on the matter once the outcome is known.
Gareth Snell
Lab Co-op
Stoke-on-Trent Central
Question
Referring to the systematic failure across Government, the Member asked about the role of third-party organisations like WhistleblowersUK in preventing future scandals. He questioned whether current legislation provides sufficient confidence for whistleblowers.
Minister reply
The Minister noted that they are reflecting on a consultation carried out by the previous Government and considering how to ensure whistleblowers feel confident enough to speak out.
David Mundell
Con
Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale
Question
The Member congratulated the Minister on his appointment and asked whether the Government would promote the view that the Post Office is safe to use. He highlighted a serious issue where some members of the public are not using Post Offices as they did previously due to the scandal.
Minister reply
The Minister expressed concern about such incidents, stating that postmasters should not face public opprobrium and encouraging people to utilise their facilities for community benefit.
Caroline Nokes
Con
Romsey and Southampton North
Question
It is a delight to see you back in the Chair, Mr Speaker. There were many sub-postmasters and mistresses who were not convicted, but who are seriously out of pocket due to the shortfalls that they themselves made up and deeply traumatised by the experience that they went through. Can the Minister provide reassurance that the Department will seek to ensure that they are supported, and that the compensation scheme is swift, effective but also very straightforward for them?
Minister reply
I thank the right hon. Member for her question. Those are the principles that we want to address and carry on with from the previous Government: the system should be fair, swift and simple. We know that postmasters have already gone through an incredibly difficult time. We do not want to make it even harder by having a convoluted system. We absolutely agree that justice should be fair, quick, complete and straightforward for people.
Kit Malthouse
Con
North West Hampshire
Question
Beyond compensation, one of the most important things that campaigners are looking for is consequences for those people who played a part in the creation of this scandal. The Prime Minister has made much about the integrity and accountability of his Government. Presumably that is retrospective. What consequence does the Minister envisage for those current serving Government Ministers who are deemed by the inquiry to have been negligent in their conduct in ministerial office in the past?
Minister reply
That is a very important question. It would be premature of us to draw conclusions before the inquiry has been completed but, absolutely, we should be looking very carefully at all those individuals whose behaviour unfortunately led to the scandal happening and to it taking far too long to address. That is a matter for the inquiry to make recommendations on and, certainly, we will be looking to follow those up.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
I welcome the Minister to his place. I know that he was vociferous on this issue when he was on the Opposition Back Benches, so I have absolutely no doubt that he will deliver on it.
Some 26 postmasters implicated in the scandal in Northern Ireland are worried and concerned. It is imperative that all postmasters feel that they can have an open and frank discussion with no fear of repercussion in the upcoming investigations, and there can be no further unwarranted delays. Can the Minister confirm that, as a priority, he will make sure that postmasters have access at every level to ensure that their concerns are addressed and that he will make every effort to take steps in the right direction? Thank you so much, Mr Speaker.
Minister reply
What a surprise to see the hon. Member in his place today. I am sure that this will not be last time that we have an exchange across the Dispatch Box, but he does raise an important point. We absolutely agree that we need to make it as easy as possible for postmasters to raise their concerns and to get the justice that they have so long waited for.
Richard Holden
Con
Basildon and Billericay
Question
I congratulate you, Mr Speaker, on your return to your place, and the Minister on taking up his appointment.
Compensation is one part of this, but what victims of this scandal, such as Betty whom I met, want to see are truth and accountability. I am referring not just to Ministers, to whom my right hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse) referred, but to those involved in the scandal. What can the Minister say to people in the Post Office and to Betty, who want to see those responsible in the Post Office properly held to account, as well as the compensation for their suffering?
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Member for his question. He makes an important point. Justice is one side of the coin, but there is also accountability for what has happened. A lot of people want to see that: not just those directly affected, but everyone who has been outraged by the years of inertia and obfuscation that we have seen in this scandal. The purpose of the inquiry is to get to the heart of who knew what, who did what and who did not do what they should have done, and whether individuals should take some responsibility for their actions. I have no doubt that, when those recommendations are released, we will want to see some very swift action on the back of that.
Andrew George
Lib Dem
St Ives
Question
I was privileged to be one of those MPs who, a decade ago, was campaigning on this issue in Parliament with the now Lord Arbuthnot and campaigning on cases in my constituency—people had been treated appallingly. Those people have not yet received compensation. If there is going to be any kind of delay in compensation to those who have suffered, is there any way that early, interim payments can be made to those who need the support now and certainly before too long?
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Member for his question, and join him in praising Lord Arbuthnot’s work in this area. As of 31 May, £222 million has already been paid out in compensation. There have actually been significant interim payments as well. We understand that, while this is a very large scheme, it is important that we get early payments, so I assure the hon. Member that interim payments are a very large part of this programme.
Kieran Mullan
Con
Bexhill and Battle
Question
The legislation that we passed was a blanket measure. It might be clear to us who is or is not included, but for the individuals affected it will not necessarily have been clear. Will the Minister update the House on the progress that has been made in identifying them and writing to them to confirm that their convictions have been quashed?
Minister reply
I thank the hon. Member for his important question. We have been working closely with colleagues in the Ministry of Justice to identify those people who are affected by the legislation, and they will be contacted in due course if they have not been already.
Shadow Comment
Kevin Hollinrake
Shadow Comment
The shadow Secretary of State welcomed the Minister to his role, expressing hope for cross-party cooperation. He noted the importance of swift compensation and highlighted that over £222 million has been paid to more than 2,800 claimants across various schemes. However, he pressed for further details on the implementation timeline of the new Horizon convictions redress scheme, including top-ups and appeal processes.
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