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Fiscal Rules
28 October 2024
Lead MP
Darren Jones
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
EconomyTaxation
Other Contributors: 28
At a Glance
Darren Jones raised concerns about fiscal rules in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
With the support of the House, I announce that the Government will establish robust fiscal rules to ensure stable fiscal policy. This includes a stability rule ensuring day-to-day spending is covered by receipts and an investment rule reducing debt as a proportion of GDP over time. The plans inherited from the previous government would have led to a decline in public sector investment; instead, Labour aims to seize future opportunities for growth. A 10-year national infrastructure strategy will be delivered next spring, working with regional mayors and private sectors to ensure value for money and positive returns on financial investments. Additionally, the Government will review the measure of debt targeted by fiscal rules before announcing further details at the upcoming Budget alongside an economic forecast from the independent Office for Budget Responsibility.
Gareth Davies
Con
Grantham and Bourne
Question
What advice did Treasury officials give about the impact on interest rates, and does he agree with Paul Johnson's view that this change means more debt and interest?
Minister reply
The minister emphasises that the Government will ensure responsible fiscal management by balancing investment needs while maintaining a sustainable trajectory for debt. He acknowledges the importance of market confidence and aims to provide clarity through upcoming Budget statements.
Paul Blomfield
Lab
Sheffield Central
Question
How does the minister respond to criticism about borrowing levels under Labour compared to the previous Conservative government?
Minister reply
The minister responds by highlighting Labour's commitment to reducing day-to-day spending and ensuring debt falls as a proportion of GDP over time, distinguishing this approach from past practices that led to unsustainable borrowing levels.
Chris Philp
Con
Croydon South
Question
How does the announcement impact market confidence and what measures will be taken to address concerns?
Minister reply
The minister assures that the Government is listening to economic advice, including from institutions like the IMF. He confirms that further details about fiscal rules and borrowing plans will be provided in due course through official channels such as the OBR report.
Gareth Davies
Con
Grantham and Bourne
Question
Critiqued the Chancellor's announcement of changes to fiscal rules, highlighting broken promises during Labour's election campaign and questioning the impact on interest rates and public debt definitions.
Minister reply
Defended against accusations by pointing out previous Conservative government failures and highlighted that the detail will be set out in the Budget on Wednesday.
Meg Hillier
Lab Co-op
Hackney South and Shoreditch
Question
Asked for clarification on how guardrails such as the national infrastructure strategy and multi-year spending reviews would work to reassure markets.
Minister reply
Explained that the national infrastructure strategy will bring together all Whitehall Departments' asks into one place, informing multi-year spending reviews to improve productivity of public services and economic growth.
Daisy Cooper
Lib Dem
St Albans
Question
Asked for assurance that any additional borrowing would only be for productive investment in growth and fixing crumbling hospitals and schools.
Minister reply
Agreed with the need to avoid a repeat of Conservative government's disastrous mini-Budget, emphasising Labour’s commitment to responsible fiscal rules.
Jeevun Sandher
Lab
Loughborough
Question
Asked if changes to fiscal rules that promote investment should be welcomed.
Minister reply
Agreed and highlighted the failure of previous Conservative government's approach, noting public sector investment would have been at its lowest in 10 years under opposition plans.
Neil O'Brien
Con
Harborough, Oadby and Wigston
Question
Asked why constituents feel misled by Labour breaking promises on national insurance, winter fuel payment cuts, and taxes on working people.
Minister reply
Defended the Government's track record and highlighted that the Budget will honour commitments made in Labour’s manifesto.
Clive Betts
Lab
Sheffield South East
Question
Asked if more investment might be allowed for housing to meet homebuilding targets and if public investment would prioritise UK companies.
Minister reply
Confirmed commitment to delivering 1.5 million homes and highlighted the purpose of national infrastructure strategy to give suppliers confidence in delivery.
North Cotswolds
Question
Inquires about the impact of recent announcements on interest rates and mortgage payments, expressing concern over hardship caused to current mortgage holders and future taxpayers.
Minister reply
Responds by attributing blame to the chaotic behaviour of the Conservative party in government prior to the last election, highlighting their irresponsible fiscal policies. Emphasises a responsible approach to public spending.
Noah Law
Lab
St Austell and Newquay
Question
Asks about the fiscal rules reform, pointing out the need for realism and stability compared to the previous government's unfunded commitments.
Minister reply
Acknowledges a £22 billion deficit inherited from the Conservative party and indicates that the Chancellor will address public finances in the upcoming Budget.
Dave Doogan
SNP
Angus and Perthshire Glens
Question
Welcomes the Government's efforts but raises concerns about capital investment projects, highlighting Scotland’s economic contribution.
Minister reply
Acknowledges Scotland's importance to Great Britain and Northern Ireland, mentions GB Energy investments, and expresses willingness to work with Scottish people.
Matt Rodda
Lab
Reading Central
Question
Compliments the Minister on stability and investment, requesting more detail about the challenging inheritance from the previous government.
Minister reply
Responds by highlighting the Conservative party's irresponsible fiscal policies and promises made without financial backing.
Nick Timothy
Con
West Suffolk
Question
Asks the Minister to commit to a maximum 10-year gilt yield in Parliament, based on previous levels.
Minister reply
Declines to speculate on future budget announcements and invites the MP to return Wednesday for the Budget details.
Johanna Baxter
Lab
Paisley and Renfrewshire South
Question
Discusses sustainable growth in contrast to short-termism, criticising previous Government's investment cuts.
Minister reply
Agrees that the previous government’s policies failed and commits to a new approach focused on productive investment.
Jim Allister
TUV
North Antrim
Question
Questions how increased national insurance will boost business confidence, especially amidst high interest rates. Asks about multi-year spending reviews for devolved Governments.
Minister reply
Refuses to speculate on budget specifics but highlights progress made in resetting relationships with devolved Governments.
Jon Trickett
Lab
Normanton and Hemsworth
Question
Discusses the lack of investment under previous governments, urging a break from economic orthodoxy.
Minister reply
Acknowledges poor investment trends over recent years but attributes blame to Conservative choices, committing to new decisions in Wednesday's Budget.
Clive Jones
Lib Dem
Wokingham
Question
Requests a guarantee for immediate funding for the Royal Berkshire Hospital based on changes to fiscal rules.
Minister reply
Cannot provide guarantees before the budget but highlights positive engagement and commitment to repairing NHS infrastructure.
Tom Hayes
Lab
Bournemouth East
Question
Expresses frustration with opposition members' criticism, highlighting constituents' support for taking decisive action.
Minister reply
Thanks constituent's trust in the Government and commits to difficult decisions at Wednesday’s Budget.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
Asks about the long-term legacy of fiscal rule changes, expressing concerns over passing debt onto future generations.
Minister reply
Responds by addressing the deficit left by previous government and commitment to putting public finances into surplus.
Zarah Sultana
Lab
Coventry South
Question
New research published this month by the Institute for Fiscal Studies shows that reversing the two-child benefit cap would lift 540,000 children above the absolute poverty line. There are no fiscal rules, only fiscal choices. While taskforces meet, more and more children in Coventry South and across the country are consigned to avoidable poverty. Will the Government acknowledge that, prioritise ending child poverty and finally scrap the pernicious two-child benefit cap?
Minister reply
I share my hon. Friend’s commitment to wanting to tackle child poverty in this country—this party had a proud record on that when we were in government previously. That is why we have set up the child poverty taskforce, which reported last week, and our ambition is to reduce child poverty over the course of this Parliament. We will set out further measures in the Budget on Wednesday on how we intend to deliver that.
Scott Arthur
Lab
Edinburgh South West
Question
I thank the Minister for his statement. Residents and businesses in my constituency absolutely share our ambition to get the country back on track, and acknowledge that the mission-led focus of the Government and the fiscal rules are at the core of that. They contrast that with 14 years of drift under the Conservatives, punctuated only by 49 days of utter chaos. However, residents and businesses in my area want to be reassured that they can be confident about our level of ambition, so will the Minister update us on how investors are responding to our focus and the maturity that we bring to the debate around the economy?
Minister reply
I point my hon. Friend to our very successful international investment summit only a couple of weeks ago, when it was very clear from investors that bringing stability back to our politics and our economy has been long wanted. That is why we were able to commit to £63 billion of investment in the country at the summit, followed by another £10 billion of investment announced only a few days after. We intend to raise much more to invest in this country and to bring growth back to the economy.
Emily Darlington
Lab
Milton Keynes Central
Question
Constituents in Milton Keynes voted for change because they see the consequences of the Conservative economic policy. They are suffering from the cost of living crisis and have seen this in their crumbling schools, the lack of GP appointments and the use of food banks just to make ends meet. Will the Chief Secretary reassure me and my constituents that we will end the Conservative use of payday loans just to keep the lights on and instead invest in new schools, new hospitals and new infrastructure, alongside making work pay, so that my constituents see their lives improve?
Minister reply
With my hon. Friend’s reference to payday loans, she points to the behaviour of the previous Government. As I have told the House this afternoon, this Government, with their first fiscal rule, will take us to a place where we are not borrowing to pay the bills each month, as had happened for years under the Conservatives. Anyone managing their family finances at home knows that that is the right thing to do, and they will welcome the fact that this Government are bringing that sense of discipline back to the national economy, too.
Richard Baker
Lab
Glenrothes and Mid Fife
Question
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that as part of their fiscal strategy and within the fiscal rules, the Government will utilise the national wealth fund to lever in private investment, along with public investment from the taxpayer, for key areas of growth in our economy, including, for example, renewables infrastructure, which is of such importance in Scotland?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend knows that the test of a good Government is whether they can secure private sector investment to come alongside them—something that declined under the last Government. That is why the national wealth fund, which the Chancellor has announced, will secure billions of pounds of private sector investment, alongside public sector investment, in the industries of the future.
Peter Swallow
Lab
Bracknell
Question
Does the Minister agree that the previous Government’s failure to invest not only damaged economic growth, but led to damage to our public services, with a broken NHS, special educational needs in crisis and local government on the brink?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend will know, from speaking to his constituents during his campaign to be elected and since, that people’s experience of public services across the country shows the fact of the matter: after 14 years of failure from the Conservatives, our public services are on their knees. That is why they need a Government who will bring stability back to our economy, invest in public services and improve outcomes for people who rely on them and work in them.
Luke Charters
Lab
York Outer
Question
Following the disastrous mini-Budget, the Bank of England was forced to undertake emergency liquidity operations to reduce volatility in markets. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the investment summit’s record £63 billion shows that this Government are creating stable conditions for long-term investment, after years of political chaos from the Conservative party?
Minister reply
I thank my hon. Friend for his excellent question, and I agree that £63 billion invested in this country was a sign of confidence, because investors around the world know that Britain is back after years of chaos.
Torsten Bell
Lab
Swansea West
Question
It is good to hear about changes to address the big problem with our macroeconomic framework—the bias against new investment spending. May I draw the Chief Secretary’s attention to the other problem with the system, which acts as an incentive for Ministers not to manage well the assets that they already hold? I refer him to the 2017 sale of £3.5 billion-worth of student loans for just £1.7 billion. Will he reassure the House that the changes that he is making will ensure that we get value for money for the existing financial assets that we hold?
Minister reply
I can give my hon. Friend that reassurance, and I point to the Office for Value for Money, which will work for us to ensure that we improve on behaviours of the past. I also point more broadly to the way that we manage our current assets. People have only to look at the state of our prisons, hospitals and schools, with reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete and roofs falling in, to know that after 14 years of cuts to investment, we cannot carry on like that. That is why people voted for change at the last election, and why we will deliver it.
Shadow Comment
Gareth Davies
Shadow Comment
The shadow criticises Labour's announcement as unclear and uncertain, noting previous broken promises such as cutting energy bills. The UK lacks a clear definition of public debt, leading to market uncertainty and higher interest rates. The Conservative asks for details on the impact of these changes on interest rates and borrowing plans under an expanded definition of public debt.
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