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Welfare Spending 2025-07-15
15 July 2025
Lead MP
Helen Whately
Debate Type
General Debate
Tags
TaxationEmployment
Other Contributors: 48
At a Glance
Helen Whately raised concerns about welfare spending 2025-07-15 in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Lead Contributor
Opened the debate
Conservatives argue that the two-child benefit cap should remain in place, asserting it reflects principles of personal responsibility, fairness, and living within means. They claim lifting the cap would exacerbate a benefits culture detrimental to taxpayers and those trapped on welfare, urging further reductions in welfare spending.
Dave Doogan
SNP
Angus and Perthshire Glens
Questions the fairness of the two-child cap, referencing comments by the Children’s Commissioner for England about 'Dickensian levels' of poverty in England.
Harriett Baldwin
Con
West Worcestershire
Supports Helen Whately's stance on the welfare trap, highlighting that the Universal Credit Bill could eventually result in benefits being more lucrative than full-time minimum wage work.
Deirdre Costigan
Lab
Ealing Southall
Critiques the Conservative argument, noting their fiscal irresponsibility and questioning the moral authority of a party that has previously led to economic downturns.
Gosport
Agrees with Helen Whately's point about families making tough choices, emphasising fairness in decision-making regarding having children when on benefits or in work.
John Hayes
Con
South Holland and The Deepings
Supports the idea of personal responsibility alongside welfare support, reinforcing the principle that welfare should not lead to dependency.
Alison McGovern
Lab
Wirral South
The Minister criticises Conservatives for their record on child poverty, highlighting that under their leadership from 2010 to 2024, the number of poor children increased by nearly 1 million. She mentions an increase in youth unemployment and a rise in food bank usage.
Graham Stuart
Con
Beverley and Holderness
Conservative Member criticises Labour's denial about the state of the country, arguing that Labour increases unemployment which most affects the poorest and young people. He mentions Conservative Government outgrowing Germany, France, Japan, and Italy over 14 years.
Paul Holmes
Con
Hamble Valley
Conservative Member questions why Minister hasn't resigned for putting more children into poverty under her proposals, suggesting she doesn't care about poverty if she allowed a policy that would put 150,000 extra children in poverty.
Desmond Swayne
Con
New Forest West
Conservative Member requests to make a point but is not given an opportunity by the Minister immediately.
Jamie Stone
LD
Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross
The hon. Gentleman is concerned about the transition of constituents from legacy benefits to universal credit, where they have to wait five weeks until getting their first payment, raising concerns about how these individuals will manage financially during this period.
Torbay
Children are 20% of the UK population but represent 100% of our future. With almost a third of children living in poverty, it is shocking that there are 4.5 million children growing up in poverty, over a million more than the entire population of Wales. The Liberal Democrats propose lifting the two-child limit and the benefit cap to tackle child poverty effectively.
Gill German
Lab
Clwyd North
Childhood is a brief period in one's life, and childhood poverty has grown for over a decade. The Labour Government aims to mitigate this by boosting the minimum wage, investing in getting people into work, expanding the warm home discount, increasing universal credit above inflation, establishing fair payment rates, and more.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
The hon. Member acknowledges the multifaceted drivers of child poverty and supports the government's approach to tackling it through various measures aimed at increasing opportunities for children.
Joy Morrissey
Con
Beaconsfield
Supports the argument for fairness and equity, stating that hard-working families should not be asked to pay for those on benefits having multiple children.
Tiverton and Minehead
Questions if it is an appropriate time to put more pressure on the public finances by scrapping the two-child benefit limit, citing estimates that doing so will cost £3.5 billion a year.
Critiques the Government for not addressing the motion about the two-child benefit limit and suggests Labour is divided on the issue.
Hendon
Challenges Dr Mullan to address deep poverty, which increased under Conservative governance, leading to a higher percentage of children in deep poverty.
Highlights the issue of child maintenance and its impact on lifting children out of poverty. Cites research showing that 43% of children in single-parent families live in poverty compared with 26% in couple families.
Matt Rodda
Lab
Reading Central
Supports policies outlined by the Minister to address child poverty, citing a need for economic growth and improving access to good jobs. Emphasises the stark contrast between wealth and poverty in his constituency despite economic growth.
Anna Dixon
Lab
Shipley
Calls for opportunities for disabled people to access work and good jobs, criticising the Conservative approach of blaming them for cheap headlines.
Highlights the growth in child poverty in Northern Ireland and calls for a UK-wide strategy to address the issue effectively.
Adrian Ramsay
Green
Waveney Valley
Asked Matt Rodda a question during his speech.
Ashley Fox
Con
Bridgwater
The UK’s benefits system should act as a financial safety net, providing meaningful support for those who need it most while maintaining fairness to taxpayers. The two-child limit on benefits is crucial to ensure fairness. The welfare bill is increasing unsustainably and there needs to be reform to reverse this trend.
John Glen
Con
Salisbury
Emphasised the importance of fiscal sustainability, citing Richard Hughes' comments about the UK's inability to afford its promises. Supported his colleague’s argument on the need for a sustainable welfare system.
Asked Sir Ashley Fox an intervention question.
Tom Hayes
Lab
Bournemouth East
Discussed his personal experience of growing up in poverty and the systemic issues that contribute to it. Highlighted the unacceptable levels of child poverty, long-term sickness unemployment, and underfunding of public services. Welcomed the launch of the child poverty taskforce.
Antonia Bance
Lab
Tipton and Wednesbury
Supported Tom Hayes' stance, emphasising the pride parents take in their children's achievements regardless of circumstances, and stressing the need for a better social security system to support all children.
West Dorset
Acknowledged the inequalities faced by rural communities in accessing affordable healthcare and other services. Highlighted the importance of supporting vulnerable members of the community.
Blake Stephenson
Con
Mid Bedfordshire
We must have a fair welfare system—one that provides vital support to those who need it but does not create a barrier to finding work. We need a financially sustainable system that delivers fairness for the taxpayer and does not entrench dependency... Shifting the financial responsibility of children on to the state risks not only entrenching inequality, but opening the floodgates to unsustainable dependency, encouraging parents to have children beyond their means under the assumption that the state will bear the cost.
Does the hon. Member accept that even with his emphasis on parental financial responsibility, the two-child benefit cap punishes the entirely innocent party—the children, who had no choice in their existence? Is that not deeply unjust?
Does my hon. Friend agree that this is actually about growth in the economy, low tax, the welfare state being there as a safety net—not as a path to dependency, in which our economy is stifled and lacks any growth—and children whose parents work hard being given the same privileges and fairness as anyone on welfare benefits?
Ayoub Khan
Ind
Birmingham Perry Barr
The hon. Gentleman mentioned raising taxes, but does he accept that there are many ways to do that? One way is to look at large corporations and people who have far more money than they will ever use.
Deirdre Costigan
Lab
Ealing Southall
I have visited St Anselm’s food bank in Southall on many occasions... Under this Labour Government, we want to make food banks the exception and not the norm. That is why Labour has opened new breakfast clubs, such as the one in Wolf Fields in Southall; expanded nurseries, such as in Allenby primary; extended free school meals for all those on universal credit; and reduced energy bills by £150 for more than half a million Londoners... We are increasing the basic rate of universal credit to help those families who rely on it, so that it starts to become enough to live on, and they do not have to use food banks. We have changed the rules, so that people are no longer better off on sickness benefit.
Jake Richards
Lab
Rother Valley
My hon. Friend is talking about other areas of public policy that affect welfare. Is not the other side of the coin the 2.8 million people out of work due to long-term sickness and the state of our NHS? The fact that waiting lists are coming down month after month under this Labour Government will help people who are currently on benefits to get back into work.
Tewkesbury
Two weeks ago, the House came together to watch the Labour party tear itself apart over to what extent it would remove welfare support from some of the most vulnerable in society, including, but not limited to, those with Parkinson’s and dementia.
Luke Murphy
Lab
Basingstoke
Labour did promise that those with the broadest shoulders should carry the heaviest burden. I am sure that enough wealth exists within our own borders to keep our most vulnerable citizens supported. Will the Government therefore commit themselves to both keeping and increasing digital service tax, so that big tech pays its fair share?
Ayoub Khan
Ind
Birmingham Perry Barr
The two-child benefit cap is a policy that punishes children for the circumstances of their birth. It has no place in a civilised society. In Birmingham Perry Barr, I receive heartbreaking testimonies from families living with the consequences of this callous measure. The Institute for Fiscal Studies stated outright that scrapping the cap would bring nearly half a million children out of poverty.
Antonia Bance
Lab
Tipton and Wednesbury
In the Black Country, one in two families grow up in poverty. We have made down payments with free school meals for every family on universal credit and free breakfast clubs. There will be family hubs in every single town, and we are fixing local government finance so that it once again takes account of deprivation.
South Devon
Poverty robs children of their future, impacting life chances, long-term health, and ability to participate in childhood activities. In South Devon, over 5,300 children live in poverty; one mother regularly skips meals for her child's benefit. The two-child limit exacerbates the situation faced by families with high housing costs and low wages. Lifting this limit would immediately help many families, but it is also economically sensible as it reduces future strain on healthcare and social services.
Brian Leishman
Lab
Alloa and Grangemouth
The motion continues austerity policies that have made Britain an unequal society. Over 3 million people rely on food banks, with nearly 80% being in work. The two-child limit is cruel and punitive towards families. It is morally unacceptable to penalise those who receive more children. Last week’s vote by Labour was a failure; the government should lift the two-child cap immediately.
Danny Kruger
Con
East Wiltshire
The debate has shown strong opposition from the Opposition Benches to the two-child limit, but it remains unclear what the Government's stance is. The cost of lifting this limit and other reforms would total £9.3 billion in additional spending, likely leading to tax rises. Wealth taxes would harm economic growth and job creation; it is a path towards national bankruptcy.
Iqbal Mohamed
Ind
Dewsbury and Batley
In Dewsbury and Batley, more than 11,800 children live in poverty, a direct result of policy choices by previous and current governments. The impact is felt locally with families struggling to make ends meet.
Danny Kruger
Con
Spelthorne
Mr. Kruger acknowledges that many things got worse under Labour's rule but attributes it to the global financial meltdown. He points out that youth unemployment rose under Labour and fell significantly under Conservative leadership, and criticises proposals to lift the child benefit cap.
Luke Murphy
Con
Wolverhampton South West
Mr. Murphy challenges the shadow Minister about the number of families receiving child benefits for three or more children and questions whether these families should be prioritised under child benefit, considering it a universal entitlement.
Kanishka Narayan
Lab
Vale of Glamorgan
Ms. Narayan criticises the Conservative government's approach to public finances and growth since 2015-16, arguing there has been no progress on absolute or relative poverty during this period.
Andrew Western
Con
Minister of State for Child Poverty Strategy
The Minister emphasised the Government's commitment to reducing child poverty through various initiatives such as free breakfast clubs, free school meals, and restrictions on branded school uniforms. He mentioned that abolishing direct pay would lift 20,000 children out of poverty. The Minister also defended his support for the Universal Credit Bill despite its potential to increase poverty, citing £1 billion worth of employment support measures not yet scored by the Office for Budget Responsibility.
Mullan
Lab
Bexhill and Battle
Asked why the Minister supported proposals in the Universal Credit Bill that would increase poverty despite their own impact assessments, highlighting the contradiction between his commitment to reducing child poverty and supporting such measures.
Graham Stuart
Con
Beverley and Holderness
Questioned whether it was in order for a Minister of the Crown to argue against a policy of his own Government, specifically regarding the two-child benefit cap.
Government Response
Minister highlights that under Conservative leadership from 2010-2024, child poverty increased. She mentions food bank usage and unemployment rates as examples of their failure. She criticises the idea of a 'benefits culture' and calls for bold welfare reform focusing on those in greatest need. The Minister acknowledges the level of child poverty and criticises the Conservative party's record on poverty assessment changes. He emphasises that the internationally recognised comparator is the basis for judging performance, and he highlights specific figures showing a reduction in absolute child poverty under Conservative leadership. Defended the government's approach by stating that all available levers are being considered in the lead-up to the child poverty strategy, scheduled for autumn. Criticised the previous Conservative administration for failing to control welfare spend during their tenure.
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