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Question
Control room operators at NESO are responsible for balancing electricity supply and demand. Whistleblowers have alleged that on 23 June, NESO failed to meet grid security standards, corporate affairs team interfered in operational decisions, and operational decisions were recorded without audit trails. Since 2 June, three public electricity margin notices have been issued, unprecedented due to the frequency of whistleblowers coming forward. Despite these serious allegations, the Government dismissed them as 'scaremongering', which Coutinho considers a disgrace. She questioned if the investigation is thorough and fair, noting that it does not provide anonymity to all control room operators who wish to come forward.
Minister reply
Shanks reiterated the seriousness of the matter and noted the independent review process initiated based on information provided by Coutinho. He emphasised that NESO's investigation will include interviews with power system managers and other control room personnel from the period in question, ensuring thoroughness and independence. Shanks argued against the notion of imminent blackouts due to margin notices being a standard operational tool. He highlighted the resilience of the energy grid during recent periods and urged for responsible rhetoric while awaiting the full investigation's outcome.
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Question
Last week the Committee heard from Claire Dykta, the director of strategy and policy at NESO, who told us that operational decisions are taken by authorised, trained personnel only. Alastair Martin, chief strategy officer at Flexitricity, also confirmed that it is not plausible for head office to tell the control room what to do. Does the Minister agree that it is important for public reassurance during threats to energy security that scrutiny is based on evidence rather than rumour?
Minister reply
The minister agrees with Bill Esterson's comments and emphasises that allegations should be taken seriously, but they must not lead to scaremongering about potential blackouts. The minister pays tribute to the skilled staff in NESO’s control room who maintain the electricity demand-supply balance without any disruption.
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Question
The allegations of NESO bosses instructing control room staff to conceal evidence of grid instability are serious and require a genuinely independent investigation with full transparency. The minister must also address under-investment in the grid, storage capacity, and frequency stability during record heat conditions. Will the Minister guarantee protection for whistleblowers, commit to an arm’s length investigation, and ensure full transparency regarding its findings?
Minister reply
The terms of reference for the independent inquiry are available on Ofgem’s website. The inquiry will conduct interviews with control room staff who were present during incidents. While grid stability is foundational to energy security, the minister confirms that there was no blackout risk and NESO maintains sufficient generation capacity.
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Question
The minister's approach in addressing serious allegations while ensuring independent investigation transparency is commendable. However, under-investment in the grid should not be conflated with imminent blackouts. Can the Minister give confidence to constituents that NESO has assured him there will be no blackouts this summer?
Minister reply
NESO and the minister have provided assurances that electricity supplies were maintained throughout the June heatwave without any customer disconnections or breaches of statutory frequency limits, indicating grid resilience.
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Question
During his government tenure, Oliver Dowden conducted Exercise Mighty Oak to test national power outage impacts. Can the Minister confirm if he has read findings and what actions have been taken based on recommendations from this exercise?
Minister reply
The minister acknowledges the importance of Exercise Mighty Oak in understanding cascading impacts of a national power outage and confirms ongoing work to ensure grid resilience, with most actions completed as per previous government initiatives.
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Question
Acknowledging the seriousness of allegations, Polly Billington expresses gratitude for transparency while urging responsible reporting and an Opposition that recognises NESO’s use of electricity margin notices as a standard operational tool.
Minister reply
The minister agrees with Polly Billington on the need for responsible reporting. He confirms that tight margins during extreme weather were within normal limits, with sufficient generation to meet demand without disconnections.
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Question
There is complete chaos at the National Energy System Operator. Whistleblowers are expressing concerns about blackouts, independent investigations have been appointed, NESO cut interconnector for exports without notice to guarantee supplies. Questions Minister about confidence in chief executive, guarantees against blackouts and publication of investigation.
Minister reply
Denies complacency, refutes irresponsible language about blackouts. Grid met demand every day under pressure from extreme weather event, no blackouts occurred. Investigation will learn lessons but does not detract from grid’s robustness.
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Question
Welcomes investigation and reassurances on grid stability. As an electrical engineer, asks about steps previous Government took to invest in a more resilient grid, and what this Government has done.
Minister reply
Previous Government did not do enough investment for future resilience; current government is driving forward biggest upgrade in the grid in generations.
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Question
Concerned about seriousness of questions not answered. Asks if Minister met NESO chair recently, whistleblowers told they let company down by chief executive, and document record keeping.
Minister reply
Engages with NESO’s chair but also Government's independent director; Ofgem regulates NESO. Inquiry will establish truth about version control, sharing of documents, etc.
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Question
Concerned about future extreme weather events and need for public education programmes to reduce demand at peak times; asks if Minister can commit report from independent inquiry will be brought to the House.
Minister reply
Committing work with DNOs, transmission owners to improve local issues. Will take forward work to engage more regularly on personal and household resilience.
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Question
Curious about mantra that there have not been any blackouts; constituents experienced intermittent blackouts in St John’s area, seeking guarantees situation will improve.
Minister reply
Speaks at cross purposes. Cannot guarantee no supply disruption as faults happen leading to temporary loss of supply; willing to work with MP on local recurring issues.
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Question
Urges full candour from NESO, grid stability important given challenges brought by recent heatwave and clean energy transition; asks if nuclear plays vital role in providing stable baseload energy.
Minister reply
Congratulates on question about nuclear. Nuclear does play a vital role in providing stable baseload energy and supporting grid stability.
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Question
The MP criticised the government for its over-reliance on intermittent renewables, questioning the necessity of grid investment, and expressed concern about constraint payments to wind farm operators.
Minister reply
Mr Shanks defended his position, stating that investing in the grid is necessary to ensure resilience and acknowledged the issue with constraint payments but emphasised that this was due to past lack of strategic planning by previous governments.
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Question
Asked about measures being taken to ensure grid resilience specifically for Harlow and other areas in the UK.
Minister reply
Mr Shanks responded affirmatively, confirming investment plans and reforms aimed at connecting more renewables, economic projects, and improving efficiency through queue reform.
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Question
Questioned the independence of the inquiry process following NESO staff whistleblowing allegations.
Minister reply
Mr Shanks stated that the legal firm conducting the review, Eversheds Sutherland, is independent and assured that findings will be reported to an independent director on the board and shared with Ofgem.
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Question
Asked about protection for whistleblowers and suggested establishing a government office of the whistleblower.
Minister reply
Mr Shanks acknowledged legal protections for whistleblowers and committed to protecting their ability to speak freely without NESO staff present. He also stated that setting up an office was not within his portfolio but would pass on the suggestion.
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Question
Expressed concerns about lack of inertia in the grid as more intermittent sources are introduced and questioned if nuclear and gas are part of the energy mix.
Minister reply
Mr Shanks responded that other tools can be deployed to meet the need for inertia and referenced weather-related issues affecting gas power stations, dismissing the suggestion of relying solely on gas.
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Question
Critiqued NESO management's response to whistleblowers and raised concerns about small blackouts as indicators of future grid problems.
Minister reply
Mr Shanks defended his earlier comments, stating that he did not dismiss the issue but committed to following up with distribution owners. He also clarified that he had not characterised whistleblowers as enemies or created a hostile environment.
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Question
Balancing the grid is really important, but why is the cost of so doing rising from about £1.5 billion a year to £10 billion by 2030?
Minister reply
First of all, investment is necessary to bring down the costs in the long term. We are currently paying to constrain the renewables that are generating often much more electricity day after day than we are able to get to homes and businesses. Instead of doing that—paying to both turn off wind and turn up gas somewhere else in England to fill the gap—we should be building a transmission system that brings that clean power to houses and businesses across the country. That requires an initial investment, but that investment is repaid, long into the future, from the virtually free fuel that comes from solar and wind. Many, many projects were built under the previous Government and I am very happy to champion those projects, but the problem is that they did not connect them.
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Question
I welcome the Minister’s response so far, amid the shocking allegations that staff covered up the greater risks of power blackouts during the recent heatwave, but it is not just heatwaves and climate change that are increasing demand for electricity. Artificial intelligence data centres are expanding rapidly across the UK and internationally, bringing with them significant demands not only for electricity, the demand for which is estimated to double globally by 2030, but for water for cooling, land, construction and infrastructure. Will the Minister set out what steps his Department is taking to ensure that the rapid expansion of AI infrastructure does not compromise our energy security, increase the risk of supply shortages or blackouts, place unsustainable burdens on local infrastructure, or leave local communities bearing the costs while others reap the benefits?
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman asks a number of important questions about the role of data centres in the future of the country. First, there is a real opportunity if we get this right, but I take his challenge about properly planning where they should go. Data centres are an opportunity to soak up some of what we are currently constraining, which will actually bring down bills. If we can deploy them in the right places, we get a greater customer base for electricity, rather than consumers paying to switch off. Secondly, AI is a huge opportunity for us as a country and it will become increasingly important to have sovereign capability here in the UK. In the energy space, there is a real opportunity to utilise AI to run the system in an even more efficient way. The hon. Gentleman is right to say that we have to get this absolutely right so that local communities get the benefits and not any downsides. We are working through a data centre strategy with my colleagues in the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology. On the energy side, we are working to ensure that we are getting the best possible locations for the benefit of the energy system and consumers.
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Question
I thank the Minister, as always, for his answers and for his solution-based responses. My constituents watch developments with absolute dread, when every day families and vulnerable pensioners face skyrocketing bills. The very least they deserve is the truth about whether the lights will stay on this summer. The Minister will know that that NESO recently signed a major partnership with the system operator for Northern Ireland to deeply integrate our grids and balance system resilience, so a crisis of integrity at the top of NESO is a crisis for the whole United Kingdom network. Can the Minister guarantee that the allegations will not undermine energy security or grid stability in Northern Ireland?
Minister reply
I am disappointed, Madam Deputy Speaker. I heard that the hon. Gentleman rapped some of his speech in a Westminster Hall debate today, so I am disappointed that he did not do a rap in his question. He is a man of many talents, but he has disappointed me in this final week before recess! First of all, he knows that my answer—I hope he never takes it to mean that I am not interested—on the grid in Northern Ireland is always that it is a transferred power, because there is an all-Ireland grid. However, he is right about the connections with NESO. Our interconnectors with Ireland and Northern Ireland are an important part of balancing across the system. When there were storms in Northern Ireland recently and generation was switched off, those interconnectors were vital. The partnership that we have and the partnership between the two system operators are really important, so I will take his points away.