Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill 2025-02-03

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Does the Secretary of State agree that as we pursue organised criminal gangs, it is really important that we make it clear that there cannot be a hostile approach to disabled people claiming Personal Independence Payment or disabled people more widely who are using the benefits system as they deserve to?

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Can she give an assurance that if officials in the Department seek out low-hanging fruit, people with genuine disabilities will not be denied their rights and suffer anxiety or physical effects?

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Will the Secretary of State give way?

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Will the Secretary State make it clear that people in situations with small errors on their side or big errors by the Department will not have money taken out of their bank account?

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Can she reassure the House that concerns raised by the Information Commissioner’s Office about third-party data measures have been addressed?

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Can she reassure the House that an appropriate level of resources will be targeted at recovering tax revenue lost to fraud and error, estimated at £39 billion in the last financial year?

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Is the Secretary of State concerned that pensioners might be unfairly scrutinised under this blanket approach?

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Will local authorities be able to work with national Government to pursue fraud in both national and local benefits?

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Will errors still be treated in the same way as fraud under the Bill?

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Has the Secretary of State considered expanding the remit of the Public Sector Fraud Authority?

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Will the disqualification from driving have a disproportionate impact in remote areas?

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Will DWP be able to request information from charitable organisations or MPs?

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Questions the extent of new powers given to Cabinet Office Ministers, highlighting concerns about lack of oversight and potential breaches of legal principles. She inquires about consultations with legal experts.

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Acknowledges the need for fraud detection and recovery but points out additional areas of risk, such as procurement fraud and regulatory fraud. She questions the Government’s lack of a comprehensive plan to address these issues.

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I thank the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth for laying out very concisely some of the challenges in ensuring that the Bill does the right thing without going too far and breaking the things that people want fixed... I challenge the Minister: why not wait for that review’s findings before we push hard on these proposals, so that we can ensure that lessons are learned?

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Does the hon. Member agree that this legislation would see more unpaid carers or their like come under far harder and harsher penalties?

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I thank the Secretary of State for introducing this important Bill. Fraud is a serious issue, and we simply cannot tolerate the level of fraud that the previous Government left us with... I believe in doing what is right to protect taxpayers and hard-working people in business, which is why I will not stand by while fraudsters take advantage of the system.

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While supporting the Bill's intent, I seek clarification on several key points. Firstly, can you guarantee that this Bill will not distract from reforms to benefit conditionality and health assessments?

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Does the Bill address both reducing benefit fraud and encouraging people back into work, with a well-paid job being the best form of welfare?

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How will the Bill differentiate between intentional fraud and accidental overpayments due to system complexity?

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While acknowledging the need to tackle fraud, Mr. Trickett questioned whether enough attention has been given to addressing errors in welfare claims and raised concerns about potential conflicts between banks' duty to protect vulnerable customers and their new obligations under the Bill.

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I am worried about how the intervention of banks will be invoked under this Bill. Will every citizen's bank account be looked at? If not, what process will identify particular individuals?

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How does the Bill fit with our data protection laws and agreements with the EU? What is the process for asking banks to provide information in a digital format?

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Why do we need this Bill? It tackles fraud that spread under the last Government, costing every family £800 a year. The DWP loses almost £1 million an hour to fraud and error.

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Ms Blackman raised concerns about the Bill's prioritisation and its potential impact on social security dignity, co-production with disabled people, fraud prevention in other systems such as tax, and human rights issues regarding intrusive surveillance and eligibility checks. She questioned the necessity of introducing this legislation before addressing child poverty.

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None of us has empathy with fraudsters. However, a Bill proclaiming itself to have the purpose of pursuing fraud should be rigorously examined. There are troubling aspects in the equivalence between investigating fraud and overpayment. Clause 50 allows the Minister to decide whether someone is a fraudster on the balance of probabilities rather than beyond all reasonable doubt.

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The Bill sets out a clear agenda that this Government will be tough on fraud. It will ensure fairness for benefit claimants and offer confidence to the taxpayer.

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Welcoming the Government’s actions on benefit fraud, Jim Shannon expressed concern about the impact of new measures on those who make honest mistakes and highlighted cases where constituents’ bank accounts might be scrutinised. He questioned how the Department will balance pursuing fraud while protecting individuals with disabilities or mental health issues from overreach.

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Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the Government have decided to penalise those who have been charged with alleged fraud? Does he feel that there should be a system in place so that they can appeal?

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Putting a stop to fraud is welcome but many constituents are concerned about far-reaching powers that could have detrimental effects on benefit claimants. The carer’s allowance repayment scandal shows what can go wrong with departmental error. Does this represent a proportionate action?

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I recognise the need to tackle fraud but I hold deep reservations about the unintended consequences of the Bill in its present form. The Secretary of State has been willing to listen and address some concerns.

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In Bassetlaw, constituents are angered by benefit fraud and welcome this Bill. The proposed new powers will address the issue and bring DWP in line with HMRC’s investigative capabilities.

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This Bill tackles industrial-scale benefit fraud, with £7 billion lost last year. It aims to save taxpayers' money and ensure it reaches those in genuine need.

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The shadow minister highlighted the previous government’s efforts in tackling fraud and emphasised the need for a comprehensive plan from the new Government. She also criticised the lack of action since July 2024.

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I appreciate that the Government have made changes around affordability, but they still do not assess either benefit clawbacks or the deductions on the basis of whether they are actually affordable for the people having to pay them back. Are the Government planning to put that in place at some point in future?

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The hon. Member for Torbay raised the use of AI, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth. There will always be a human decision maker on each of these powers, so where decisions are made, a human—not AI—will make that call.

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The hon Member for Torbay highlighted the carer’s allowance review which will report this summer, not next. We are already learning lessons from that.

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Suggested that the Bill subjects millions of people to unwarranted financial surveillance. Asked about clarity on whether transactional information from banks will be accessed.

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Asked what constitutes fraud and raised clause 91 on the removal of driving licences.

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Asked about the right of appeal and concerns regarding appointees.

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Asked about the appointment process for individuals conducting independent assessments.

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Expressed concerns about potential errors in the system and the role of banks.

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Asked about carer’s allowance overpayments and existing powers for information request.

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Raised concerns about legal advice and Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

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Questioned effectiveness of Conservative plans in tackling fraud.