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Question
Why has this consultation been released just before the Christmas break, and why is it limited to only 10 weeks? Will the Minister extend the consultation period?
Minister reply
The Government recognise the importance of engaging widely with stakeholders. The consultation period may be extended based on feedback received during the initial phase.
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Question
Can the Minister explain how the opt-out will ensure protection to creators? And in forming this position, how many times has he already met representatives from the technology and creative sectors both domestically and internationally?
Minister reply
The opt-out aims to provide a balanced approach that supports innovation while respecting rights holders' interests. The Government have engaged extensively with stakeholders throughout the development of these proposals.
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Question
The MP thanked the Minister for advance sight of the statement, discussing the importance of Britain's creative industries and technological ecosystem. He criticised the government’s delayed action and questioned the timing of releasing a limited consultation period during the Christmas break. The MP also raised concerns about the data mining opt-out proposal and requested an extension to the consultation period as well as clarity on how the opt-out would protect creators.
Minister reply
The Minister responded that although the delay was due to complex international interconnectivities, he acknowledged Tennessee's ELVIS Act and proposed changes to UK copyright law. He emphasised the need for legal clarity to avoid scraping of UK content by foreign AI companies. The Minister committed to meeting with multiple organisations but did not extend the consultation period, citing a desire to move forward on this issue.
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Question
The MP welcomed the Minister's decision to use regulatory technology as a solution for protecting intellectual property while supporting AI innovation. She questioned whether any text and data mining exemption would be contingent on deliverable, implementable, and workable technology solutions, emphasising the importance of rights reservation systems.
Minister reply
The Minister agreed that any text and data mining exemption must rely on effective rights reservation systems, which are currently too complex. He highlighted issues with existing protocols such as robots exclusion and the need for AI companies to develop a technical solution.
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Question
The UK can and should be a global leader in AI innovation, but the creative industries must remain a growth priority. The issue of applying existing copyright laws to AI model training is an existential threat for them. What assessment has the Government made on the impact of their favoured text and data mining exemption option on the creative industries? Can he give us examples of where opt-out systems have successfully protected creatives?
Minister reply
AI and the creative industries are not separate; AI can be considered a part of the creative industry. The previous government left this issue unresolved, which is why we need to take action now. There are no successful examples of an opt-out system that protect rights holders while enabling AI development fruitfully in the UK.
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Question
What does he make of the NO FAKES Bill currently in the US House of Representatives, which protects human writers and artists against misappropriation? Does he know what is happening with the consultation on live event ticketing?
Minister reply
While my hon. Friend’s question has nothing to do with this consultation, I will address it anyway. There are arguments for bringing in legislation similar to California's digital replicas law or Tennessee's ELVIS Act. On live event ticketing, the Government will have something to say soon.
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Question
No matter what sort of regime we set up and how many countries get involved in it, surely it will only take one rogue jurisdiction allowing machines to scrape everyone else’s material? What assurances can the Government provide to support both human and AI innovation?
Minister reply
The UK has strong copyright laws developed thanks to figures like Hogarth and Dickens. When AI is brought into the UK, it falls under UK legislation. The Minister asked an AI company to create a song in Adele’s style; it was close but not quite right.
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Question
Can the Minister clarify the difference between his term “rights reservation” and previous reports of the Government’s preference for an opt-out system? What assurances can the Government provide to support both human and AI innovation?
Minister reply
The material out there is not copyright because it has expired or some artists have surrendered their rights. We want to ensure that the vast majority of rights holders, including individual photographers and artists, control their copyrights and are compensated if used.
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Question
In July this year, it was revealed that 173,000 YouTube videos had been scraped into a dataset without consent. AI offers fantastic opportunities for our economy but must supplement and grow industries rather than replace them wholesale. Why should not AI companies pay to access the creative content on which their models depend?
Minister reply
Of course those companies should pay for the content they are using. A court in Hamburg has decided that LAION-5B is covered by the exemption for data and text mining for non-commercial purposes for research, but subsequent use for other purposes is disputed.
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Question
This is an important issue everywhere in the world, but it is particularly important here in the UK because our economy has incredible strengths both in the creative industries and, more recently, in AI development. It is important to note that a lot of the technology that powers these models was pioneered by DeepMind here in London. Does the Minister agree that getting the balance right on this is critical to the Government’s mission of delivering economic growth?
Minister reply
Both sectors are part of our industrial strategy, and we must make sure that both are able to flourish. I fully understand that there will be people in the creative industries who will be worried about what we are saying, but I want them to understand that this package comes as a whole. We will not proceed without actually checking whether a system of rights reservation works.
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Question
As a former journalist, I am intimately familiar with the gold standard copyright laws that we have in this country. Does the Minister agree with the News Media Association, which is very concerned about the current situation faced by its members, where things are already being scraped and taken into these AI machines? To quote the fabulous Sugababes, those members would like the Minister to “Push the Button” on the existing laws and protect their copyright now. Can we have action now, rather than this rather vague and woolly consultation?
Minister reply
This is a genuinely thorny question that needs a technical solution. The Government are not going to write the technical solution; it has to come from both sides working out together how we can get to a situation that benefits everybody.
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Question
The commitment of the Secretaries of State for Culture, Media and Sport and for Science, Innovation and Technology to ensuring that creators can control how their content is used and be paid for it is very welcome, but some creators are concerned that the rights reservation framework proposed by the Government will not allow them to assert control. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that a new framework takes account of those concerns?
Minister reply
We would not bring forward something that undermined the copyright rights of rights holders in the creative industries. We are trying to push both sides to a place where we can create a new system of rights reservation that is simple, practical and practicable.
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Question
This is a timely statement, because I have been conversing with Anne, one of my constituents. Anne is a visual artist and dress designer, and she has exactly the concerns that you set out.
Minister reply
I think China is not necessarily the problem in this case; it is more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for me to get a practicable solution, but that is what we are determined to achieve. We will all have AI assistants very soon and need UK companies and start-ups to develop AI in a way that accepts that content needs to be paid for.
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Question
May I convey to the Minister my disappointment that his ChatGPT prompt yielded the Sugababes and “Football Manager” but not the enduring institution of “Gavin and Stacey” from the Vale of Glamorgan? This is a critical debate, because the path to prosperity for nations has to be a path through technology. In that context, the primary question on my mind is whether the Minister can set out plans for how data accuracy and completeness in the creative sector can underpin the Government’s wider AI action plan, and ultimately drive national growth.
Minister reply
My hon. Friend makes a very good point about “Gavin and Stacey”, which I look forward to the Christmas special of. Since H from Steps is from the Rhondda, Steps has a lot more to offer.
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Question
UK Music describes copyright as the foundation of the music industry, providing a means for creators to monetise their work, an incentive for investment in talent, and an opportunity for us, the public, to enjoy the fruits of creativity. It is important that we get this right, so will the Minister set out how the Government will work with both developers and rights holders to make the most of this groundbreaking technology while still protecting artists’ work?
Minister reply
No. 1: I will have endless meetings with an awful lot of people from the creative industries to ensure that all their concerns are recognised. We also had a successful meeting introducing a voluntary levy on tickets and arena gigs to support grassroots music in this country, and we hope to make a significant announcement on that in the new year.
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Question
I welcome the statement. The Minister refers to Ed Newton-Rex, who recently gave evidence to our Select Committee on this very subject. It is clear that creatives are deeply worried about any suggestion of an opt-out when it comes to the solution. That is why I welcome my hon. Friend’s commitment at the Dispatch Box to make any progress contingent on a technological solution on rights reservation because, ultimately, is that not the way to square the circle that this Government are always trying to square, which is of economic growth and innovation, while protecting workers’ rights?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend is 100% right. Squaring the circle is what we are in the business of doing; we need to provide legal certainty in this space almost certainly meaning that legislation will be introduced when such time as all different aspects hang together.