Commons Sense

House of Commons · Ministerial Statement

Civil Service Impartiality

06 March 2023 · 45 other contributors

Opened by Jeremy Quin Con Con

Standards & Ethics

Summarised by AI from the official record, so it can contain mistakes.

Read the full transcript on Parliament.uk

At a glance

Jeremy Quin raised concerns about civil service impartiality in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.

Key points

  • Sue Grey resigned from her position as a second permanent secretary on Thursday 2 March.
  • The Labour Party offered Sue Grey the role of chief of staff to the Leader of the Opposition.
  • This situation is unprecedented as it involves a serving permanent secretary joining the opposition party.

How the debate unfolded

MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said.

Government Statement

Jeremy Quin

I confirm that Sue Grey, a second permanent secretary to the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and the Cabinet Office, resigned from her position on Thursday 2 March. The Labour Party subsequently offered her the role of chief of staff to the Leader of the Opposition. This situation is unprecedented as it involves a serving permanent secretary resigning to take up a senior position with the opposition party. The Cabinet Office is investigating this matter and will provide an update later. According to civil service rules, including the code on impartiality, business appointments process managed by ACOBA, guidance on outside interests, and contacts between civil servants and Opposition parties, approval must be obtained prior to taking up such a job offer. I emphasise that maintaining civil service impartiality is constitutionally vital for effective governance.

Other contributors (45)
  • Robert Buckland Con Con

    Question

    Echoing the minister's comments, I express disappointment about Sue Grey’s resignation. Trust and impartiality are essential for civil service integrity since at least the Northcote-Trevelyan report of 1854. If the Labour party is serious about power, they must respect these principles. Will this appointment be approved by ACOBA with a waiting period of three months to two years? Is there a lobbying prohibition and restriction on official information passing?

    Minister reply

    ACOBA advises on appointments for permanent secretaries with a standard waiting period of three months to two years. ACOBA also recommends no appointment if necessary, and civil servants must uphold confidentiality. The Labour party should follow ACOBA's advice or risk further undermining their credibility.

  • Angela Rayner Lab Ashton-under-Lyne

    Question

    Why would a senior civil servant known for integrity join the Opposition with a real plan rather than the tired, washed-up Conservative Government? This debate speaks more to Conservative delusions. The true threat to impartiality is the Conservatives’ debasing of public life standards over ten years.

    Minister reply

    The Labour party's refusal to provide details about meetings between Sue Grey and Opposition members suggests they are hiding something, likely due to their need for advisers given their recent tone in Parliament.

  • William Wragg Con Hazel Grove

    Question

    Expressed confidence in Lord Pickles and the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments, asked about statutory underpinning of ACOBA rulings, and questioned impugning civil service for political bias.

    Minister reply

    Stated support for civil service standards, acknowledged ongoing process from recommendations by PACAC, Sir Nigel Boardman, and the Committee on Standards in Public Life, expected to share a Government response soon.

  • Kirsty Blackman SNP Aberdeen North

    Question

    Asked about anti-corruption champions and called for moderate language when discussing civil servants.

    Minister reply

    Confirmed the appointment of an anti-corruption champion is in progress, emphasised need to support impartiality of the civil service.

  • Bill Cash Con Stone

    Question

    Asked about contracts and potential involvement of taxpayers' money.

    Minister reply

    Said he was not in a position to know details regarding contracts or funding, suggested it would be best for the Opposition to clarify these issues.

  • Ben Bradshaw Lab Coventry South

    Question

    Defended Sue Grey's professionalism and integrity.

    Minister reply

    Avoided discussing individuals directly but emphasised the importance of following proper procedures in making such appointments, stated the situation was unprecedented.

  • Jacob Rees-Mogg Con North East Somerset

    Question

    Critiqued Sue Grey's appointment and questioned its impact on civil service impartiality.

    Minister reply

    Expressed concern over potential damage to the perception of impartiality in the civil service, urged against undermining it due to one appointment.

  • Ronnie Cowan Ind East Ayrshire

    Question

    Called for giving ACOBA more authority.

    Minister reply

    Indicated consideration of proposals from PACAC, the Committee on Standards in Public Life and Sir Nigel Boardman to improve business appointment rules.

  • Simon Hoare Con North Dorset

    Question

    Urged speeding up response to suggestions about formalizing ACOBA’s recommendations.

    Minister reply

    Confirmed the Government was considering how to improve procedures for business appointments and expressed faith in Lord Pickles' committee.

  • Andrew Gwynne Ind Gorton

    Question

    Quoted predecessor supporting Sue Grey's integrity.

    Minister reply

    Acknowledged the importance of not questioning her integrity but emphasised concerns about how the appointment was handled and its impact on civil service impartiality.

  • John Whittingdale Con Maldon

    Question

    Noted Sue Grey’s guidance on conflict of interest for new Ministers, questioned undermining principles with her potential appointment.

    Minister reply

    Agreed that the bond of trust between Ministers and civil servants is vital, anything undermining it is not healthy.

  • Suzanne Webb

    Question

    The situation surrounding the appointment of Sue Grey as permanent secretary is questionable, especially regarding the timing and transparency of the meetings leading to her appointment. She was approached during a period when she had access to sensitive information.

    Minister reply

    Transparency would help. Publishing details about who met whom, when and where will assist in reassuring the House that proper processes have been followed.

  • Sammy Wilson DUP East Antrim

    Question

    The question of Sue Grey's impartiality was raised during Brexit negotiations. The timing of these meetings is concerning, especially as a general election approaches.

    Minister reply

    Publishing the data about when the meetings took place—who met whom, when and where—will help reassure the House; it will not completely reassure but at least there will be proper transparency.

  • Richard Drax

    Question

    Sue Grey had access to highly confidential information as a senior civil servant. Her involvement with the Labour party raises concerns about impartiality and trust.

    Minister reply

    There is no reason why Sue Grey would put sensitive information to ill use, but she has access to a lot of it.

  • Mike Amesbury

    Question

    The praise given by the Government to Sue Grey contrasts with current concerns. The problem now lies in the timing and process of her appointment.

    Minister reply

    Analysis is ongoing to identify the facts leading up to Sue Grey's resignation.

  • Matthew Offord

    Question

    The permanent secretary at the Department for Education highlighted that civil servants should report any contact with Opposition members. When did Sue Grey inform her permanent secretary about initial discussions with Labour?

    Minister reply

    There were no such discussions prior to Thursday last week.

  • Wayne David

    Question

    A former Minister committed a breach of the ministerial code and ACOBA guidelines. What actions were taken against him for this breach?

    Minister reply

    The actions ACOBA took are not known, as it is an advisory body.

  • Steve Brine

    Question

    There is a lack of transparency about the timing and circumstances of Sue Grey's appointment. When will Cabinet Office analysis be complete?

    Minister reply

    Analysis should wrap up soon if Labour party provides clarity on meetings that took place.

  • Matt Western Lab Warwick and Leamington

    Question

    Sue Grey is a person of utmost integrity, as testified by Lord Maude. Why did Boris Johnson not consider her for appointment?

    Minister reply

    The issue concerns the process rather than an individual's integrity.

  • Tom Hunt

    Question

    Labour party hypocrisy is evident in their questioning of Government regarding Sue Grey’s appointment.

    Minister reply

    Rarely have Opposition Benches been as empty as today during urgent questions.

  • Amy Callaghan

    Question

    Why does the Government attack civil servants through this urgent question but refuse to pay them properly?

    Minister reply

    The intention is not to attack civil servants but to protect their impartiality and hold the Opposition accountable for transparency.

  • Jonathan Gullis

    Question

    Labour has a history of shifting positions, including on key issues. Why cannot they provide clarity about meetings with Sue Grey?

    Minister reply

    Those questions need to be answered by Opposition Members.

  • Alex Cunningham

    Question

    There is precedent for senior civil servants joining political roles shortly after leaving government service, e.g., Lord Sassoon.

    Minister reply

    While there are other precedents, none involve an individual as prominent and central to the Cabinet Office as Sue Grey.

  • Anthony Mangnall

    Question

    Sue Grey chaired a necessary inquiry into infected blood. What is the status of this inquiry following her departure?

    Minister reply

    Sue Grey was the sponsor of that inquiry inside the Cabinet Office and it will be prioritised to find a replacement.

  • Jim Shannon DUP Strangford

    Question

    Does the Minister accept that impartiality is an essential quality for any investigation? Does he believe that the test for impartiality was met in this case before any news of later jobs had emerged?

    Minister reply

    The Minister does not want to prejudge the analysis and believes ACOBA must complete its work. He emphasises the need for clarity on when events took place.

  • Simon Clarke

    Question

    Can the Minister consider amending senior civil service contracts as well as the civil service code to prevent future occurrences of this nature, given that Sue Grey had knowledge of sensitive policy making and personal interests of Ministers?

    Minister reply

    Work is ongoing to look at conclusions from various committees. The Minister does not wish to pre-empt discussions on contract amendments but suggests an opportunity in due course.

  • Michael Fabricant

    Question

    Is it ironic that Sue Grey, head of the Cabinet Office’s propriety and ethics team, put the civil service under a dark shadow? Is this bad judgment by both Sue Grey and the Leader of the Opposition?

    Minister reply

    The Minister agrees with the hon. Friend on the miscalculation by the Leader of the Opposition who should be more open about facts.

  • Nigel Adams

    Question

    Does the appointment by the Leader of the Opposition jeopardise trust between Ministers and civil servants, considering the fast-and-loose approach to rules?

    Minister reply

    The Minister agrees that this is shocking. He emphasises the importance of relationships of trust and suggests people should think carefully before risking them.

  • Peter Bone

    Question

    Does the Minister agree that criticism today should be aimed at the Leader of the Opposition for asking Sue Grey to become chief of staff?

    Minister reply

    The Minister agrees that it is about the Leader of the Opposition's blunder in approach and not thinking through consequences.

  • Lee Anderson Reform Ashfield

    Question

    Does my right hon. Friend agree that publishing details of meetings would help transparency?

    Minister reply

    The Minister thinks it would be helpful if the Labour party could transparently set out what took place.

  • Craig Whittaker

    Question

    In light of the appointment by the Labour leader, does my right hon. Friend agree that the process looks like a rotting fish?

    Minister reply

    The Minister agrees with his hon. Friend's point about the importance of transparency.

  • Eddie Hughes

    Question

    When did the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities become aware of negotiations between Sue Grey and the Leader of the Opposition?

    Minister reply

    The Minister is not aware of anybody in Government being informed before last Thursday but suggests that Labour could clear this up if they published a timeline.

  • Craig Mackinlay

    Question

    How can the integrity and value of our civil service be maintained when a senior civil servant, who was involved in partygate investigations, is now working for the Leader of the Opposition?

    Minister reply

    The Minister thanks his hon. Friend and agrees that facts need to be known.

  • Scott Benton

    Question

    How can the Government ensure other Ministers are protected from political stitch-ups when Sue Grey, with knowledge of sensitive details, is now working for the Leader of the Opposition?

    Minister reply

    The Minister agrees on the importance of rules and suggests that Labour could assist in clarifying timelines.

  • Marco Longhi

    Question

    Does my right hon. Friend agree that any reasonable person would question Sue Grey's impartiality as of 1 March given her role?

    Minister reply

    The Minister agrees on the importance but suggests clarity is needed on timelines and duration of meetings.

  • Brendan Clarke-Smith

    Question

    Does the Minister agree that perceptions matter, especially when Sir Vernon Bogdanor questions whether the approach was made before publication?

    Minister reply

    The Minister agrees with Sir Vernon's article and emphasises the importance of exploring facts.

  • Lia Nici Lab

    Question

    The Leader of the Opposition's lack of clarity regarding dates and meetings with Sue Grey, raising concerns about the accuracy of information provided by the Labour party.

    Minister reply

    Suggests that the Leader of the Opposition should ensure accurate records are kept to avoid repeated embarrassment and confusion.

  • Robbie Moore Con Keighley and Ilkley

    Question

    Asks whether Sue Grey's impartiality is compromised if any meetings or conversations with Labour party members occurred before her resignation regarding a political job offer.

    Minister reply

    Stresses the importance of following rules to maintain perceived impartiality, noting that the situation will be explored further.

  • Tom Randall Con

    Question

    Asks if Labour's deputy leader should be transparent with all facts after criticising previous Prime Ministers for lacking transparency regarding Sue Grey.

    Minister reply

    Encourages Labour to reveal relevant data to determine whether processes were followed correctly.

  • Aaron Bell Con

    Question

    Questions if the Leader of the Opposition broke rules by not consulting ACOBA before announcing an appointment, given his previous statements on leadership and rule adherence.

    Minister reply

    Responds that a detailed analysis will be conducted to clarify the situation.

  • Mark Jenkinson Con

    Question

    Expresses concern about Labour's refusal to publish timelines of meetings with Sue Grey, arguing it undermines their claims of integrity and adherence to rules.

    Minister reply

    Agrees that reputations are damaged but suggests transparency from Labour could restore faith.

  • Alexander Stafford Con

    Question

    Raises concerns about civil servants' impartiality if there were contacts between Sue Grey and Labour party members, urging for timeline disclosure.

    Minister reply

    Emphasises the importance of maintaining civil service reputation through trust and transparency.

  • Paul Bristow Con

    Question

    Concerns that the appointment weakens public trust in senior civil servants due to recent media scrutiny, demanding full disclosure.

    Minister reply

    Calls for Labour's transparency to address public doubts about the process and restore confidence.

  • Kieran Mullan Con Bexhill and Battle

    Question

    Discusses potential regulations to ensure impartiality in sensitive roles like head of propriety and ethics, given recent events.

    Minister reply

    Suggests that the Leader of the Opposition's actions call into question civil service integrity but hopes for a transparent resolution.

Shadow Comment

Robert Buckland

I echo the minister's comments on the surprising and disappointing circumstances of Sue Grey’s resignation, noting her qualities despite the issue at hand. The trust between impartial civil servants and Ministers is crucial since the mid-19th century. I ask if this appointment can proceed before formal approval by ACOBA, which has a waiting period from three months to two years, potentially longer with prohibitions on lobbying and passing official information.

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