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Question
What will happen to the 189 personnel identified as needing urgent medical testing due to noise exposure? What are the health impacts of this programme on soldiers, particularly those who have been exposed for less than a month?
Minister reply
The MOD is in the process of tracing and assessing all individuals identified as needing testing. Of the 310 personnel, 248 have already undergone assessments. The health impact varies, but detailed medical care will be provided to those who need it.
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Question
Given the £5 billion contract for 589 vehicles and the programme’s delay, what are the financial implications if General Dynamics fails to deliver the Ajax vehicles as promised?
Minister reply
The firm price contract with General Dynamics includes penalties for non-delivery. The MOD remains committed to working closely with GD to resolve issues swiftly.
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Question
He thanked the Minister for the statement and questioned the timing, citing ongoing issues with the Ajax programme including cost overruns, delays, and unresolved vibration problems. He requested details on medical treatments needed by personnel tested, additional trials costs, impact on Army deployment plans, contingency plans if Ajax is cancelled or delayed, alternatives to Ajax (such as Boxer modification), and whether there would be a review of planned Army cuts linked to Ajax.
Minister reply
The Minister defended the statement's timing and transparency. He acknowledged challenges but committed to full resolution before declaring IOC and FOC dates. The MOD is reviewing options for contingency plans including a senior responsible owner role.
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Question
He congratulated the Minister on handling Ajax challenges, asking about deadlines and recommending adding lethality to Boxer by introducing turrets. He emphasised the importance of Ajax for protecting dismounted troops.
Minister reply
The Minister affirmed focus on Ajax and transparency in decision-making but could not set an artificial deadline without full information. He acknowledged the need for solutions like adding lethality to Boxer.
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Question
He questioned potential conflicts of interest involving General Dynamics and former military officials, suggesting that taxpayers' money was being misused due to inside knowledge. He asked how the MOD would prevent similar issues.
Minister reply
The Minister assured the House of rigorous scrutiny by an Advisory Committee on Business Appointments for former military staff taking outside roles. He committed to ensuring £24 billion investment in defence is well-spent and learning from any lessons arising.
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Question
Asked about the cost of ammunition for the Ajax 40 mm cannon, noting concerns raised by the Defence Committee regarding effective use of taxpayers' money.
Minister reply
Not in a position to disclose exact costs due to commercial sensitivity. Explained that 30mm and 40mm rounds are compared differently, as 30mm requires multiple shots while 40mm achieves lethality with one round, providing better value for money.
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Question
Asked about the timeline of Millbrook trials and liability if project is cancelled, emphasising potential litigation issues.
Minister reply
Acknowledged earlier recognition of vibration problems. Promised to write further details on contract to Defence Committee members while avoiding breaches of commercial undertakings.
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Question
Asked about the bill for remedies if identified.
Minister reply
Confirmed that General Dynamics would bear the costs for any remedies identified.
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Question
Criticised MOD's procurement process, noting Ajax programme's delays and cost overruns. Asked about promised lessons learned review.
Minister reply
Promised to publish the health and safety report with a full timeline of events. Noted ongoing work on transitioning from IOC to FOC.
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Question
Criticised MOD's procurement process as 'broken', highlighting no successful programme among top 36 projects analysed by IPA.
Minister reply
Acknowledged issues with some programmes but noted importance of MPA in addressing problems and improving project management.
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Question
Asked about consequences for General Dynamics if programme ends, timescales for tests, re-engineering, and decision-making.
Minister reply
Confirmed that GD has a firm price contract to deliver 589 vehicles for £5.5 billion; no firm date given but promised to ensure thorough analysis before any decisions are made.
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Question
Expressed sympathy for the taxpayer and asked if money would be returned if programme ends, seeking assurances on future contracts.
Minister reply
Reassured that this is a firm price contract with GD to deliver vehicles to specification. Commercial details cannot be disclosed in House.
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Question
Why are taxpayers responsible for the testing at Millbrook, and why hasn't the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory been called in to analyse what went wrong with the vehicle?
Minister reply
DSTL has been engaged, but Millbrook's international reputation justifies its involvement. The recommendation is that we should get independent analysis directly from regulated entities for better transparency and visibility of reports.
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Question
What health concerns have you identified with the 310 people involved in the trials, and what plans are there to monitor their hearing over time?
Minister reply
248 out of the 310 at risk have been tested so far. Monitoring will continue, and any trends will be reported to the House by the Surgeon General.
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Jamie Stone
Lib Dem
Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross
Question
Will you reconsider halting the cut in the British Army due to Ajax's complex technology and its impact on recruitment?
Minister reply
Ajax is a sophisticated platform that will enhance capability and reduce personnel needs. Recruitment is holding up well, and there are numerous other advanced platforms being developed.
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Question
Will safety always be prioritised in defence procurement after recent events in Afghanistan?
Minister reply
Safety should indeed always be a priority. A health and safety report is necessary to remind us of this, and lessons will be learned.
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Question
What discussions have you had with the Welsh Government regarding contingencies if the worst-case scenario occurs?
Minister reply
General Dynamics is being worked with to find a solution, and I assure that we aim to resolve issues rather than focus on worst-case scenarios.
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Question
How will you ensure transparency regarding institutional failures in the MOD's procurement process?
Minister reply
Everything needs to be on the table to learn from any mistakes and ensure they are never repeated. We need full clarity about decisions and leadership.
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Question
When might the Initial Operating Capability (IOC) date be reached, considering health and safety issues?
Minister reply
A vehicle will not go into IOC without meeting specifications for reliability. The exact date cannot be given now but assurance is provided that it will work when delivered.
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Question
Is there a shared commitment across the MOD to deliver Ajax once health and safety issues are resolved?
Minister reply
The platform is crucial for future needs, and General Dynamics is being worked with to resolve issues. The commitment to deliver when it works exists throughout the MOD.
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Question
I have many servicemen and women in Derbyshire Dales. Can the Minister please reassure me that sufficient money but, more importantly, sufficient effort is put into treating all those affected? I know that the culture in the institution does sometimes mean that servicemen and women will not complain and will not mention what is happening. I want an assurance about the effort that is going into tracing everybody.
Minister reply
Specifically to reassure my hon. Friend on that point, we are not waiting for people to come to us. We are going out to the 310 service personnel we have identified in various cohorts who have had experience of Ajax. For example, we are specifically asking them to fill in questionnaires about vibration and to let us know if they have any concerns. I would encourage any service personnel who feel they have concerns to make that known so they can undergo tests and ensure that we can monitor that situation.
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Question
I would like to thank the Minister for his typical courtesy and thoroughness this afternoon, which has been very impressive. I hope that General Dynamics has heard the deep concern of this House about the status of this procurement episode, because it is clearly extremely concerning. The world is getting more dangerous, and we need these vehicles in operation. Notwithstanding the very considerable sunk costs and time of this project, we will need a point of resolution in the near future. Will the Minister confirm to the House that, in the interim, alternative options are being pursued in case this project needs to be drawn to a conclusion? We cannot afford a procurement gap that might last for years, given the state of the world at the moment.
Minister reply
To reassure my hon. Friend, I am sure General Dynamics will be very aware of this discussion. I did say in the statement that I had met the chairman and chief executive of GD in July, and she emphasised how strong its determination is to get this resolved. It wants this platform to work, and so do we. We are all focused on the same thing, and that is the point. I would rather not dwell on the second half of his question, because I do believe we can get there. I cannot give a 100% guarantee—of course I cannot—but we have a lot of investment, time, effort and focus on this vehicle, and I sincerely hope we can make it work.
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Question
I thank the Minister for the full and open update to the House today. I am really disturbed by the health risks our armed forces personnel are being exposed to from vibration and noise. We know that hearing loss can lead to complex long-term problems, and it is irreversible in most cases. Could he guarantee that no more risk will be taken and that no service person will be put into the Ajax until these health and safety issues have been fully resolved?
Minister reply
That is a good question from my hon. Friend. I can absolutely reassure her that the safety panel has been convened and has been working through the summer to find a way to allow limited use—and it is only limited use—to undertake the trials at Millbrook. Having done a lot of work on it, with independent advisers as well as the duty holders from the MOD and others, it believes it has found a way forward that is safe and allows the trials to take place. In due course, when we learn the lessons from those trials, they will enable us to have a safe manner of working in the future.