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Northern Ireland Troubles Legacy and Reconciliation 2025-12-17
17 December 2025
Lead MP
Alex Burghart
Debate Type
Urgent Question
Tags
DefenceNorthern Ireland
Other Contributors: 23
At a Glance
Alex Burghart raised concerns about northern ireland troubles legacy and reconciliation 2025-12-17 in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Lead Contributor
Opened the debate
Will the Minister confirm that they will not push their remedial order to a vote until the Supreme Court has finally ruled, considering the potential legal implications of proceeding without full determination?
Alex Burghart
Con
Brentwood and Ongar
Question
Will the Secretary of State make a commitment to not push their remedial order to a vote until the Supreme Court has finally ruled?
Minister reply
The Government have formally abandoned the appeal concerning the declaration of incompatibility relating to immunity from prosecution, and this does not alter the legal reality despite ongoing appeals by other parties. The conditions for proceeding with the remedial order are met.
Paul Foster
Lab
South Ribble
Question
Does the Secretary of State agree that the voices of those affected should be at the forefront when debating the Government’s legislation?
Minister reply
I do agree with my hon. Friend and emphasise that the previous government's legislation on immunity lacked support in Northern Ireland, hindering progress towards addressing legacy issues.
Al Pinkerton
LD
Surrey Heath
Question
Can you clarify if there is an additional responsibility for the Government to ensure this process is handled properly?
Minister reply
There are indeed unusual circumstances, and while the Joint Committee on Human Rights has approved the order, the Government acknowledge their responsibility. We listened to representations made by the Opposition and amended the remedial order accordingly.
Edward Leigh
Con
Gainsborough
Question
What comfort can the Secretary of State give to our veterans who are concerned about their state of mind given that there is no chance of a successful prosecution?
Minister reply
I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that we have only to look at the figures to see that the prospect of any prosecution in any case is increasingly remote, because of the passage of time and the difficulty of obtaining evidence.
Adam Jogee
Lab
Newcastle-under-Lyme
Question
What recent engagement has he had with victims, survivors and the organisations representing them as part of his work to address the legacy of the past?
Minister reply
I have had many such meetings. I have met the Victims and Survivors Forum twice in the recent past to explain the legislation that the Government have published.
Stuart Anderson
Con
South Shropshire
Question
Has the Prime Minister met with nine former generals who attacked the Government’s approach on lawfare against our armed forces and does this affect his approach?
Minister reply
The Government are not engaging in lawfare. We have met a very large number of veterans organisations—I myself have met the SAS Regimental Association and others—and we are listening.
Peter Swallow
Lab
Bracknell
Question
Did the shadow Northern Ireland Secretary inadvertently mislead the House when he suggested that our Committee did not discharge its roles seriously?
Minister reply
I say to my hon. Friend, who is a distinguished member of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, that I am grateful for the support that the Committee has given for the remedial order and the Government’s assessment of the compelling reasons.
Gavin Robinson
DUP
Belfast East
Question
Does he think it would be better if he at least just waited as long as the question still remains before the Supreme Court?
Minister reply
I reject the suggestion that I or the Government have misappropriated a remedial order or misapplied section 10 of the Human Rights Act.
David Smith
Lab
North Northumberland
Question
Does the Secretary of State agree with the Veterans Commissioners for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales who call not for immunity under the law but for fairness under the law?
Minister reply
I agree with that statement completely.
Chingford and Woodford Green
Question
Does it seem like ridiculous haste when the Bill is going through the House right now given there is already an appeal going on?
Minister reply
I reject again the suggestion that the Government are somehow abusing the process. If that was an argument, one might have expected the Joint Committee on Human Rights to have agreed with it, but it did not.
Katrina Murray
Lab
Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch
Question
What message does he want to send out to every person who has produced one of the quilt panels for SEFF and all the other families?
Minister reply
I would say that those quilts are an argument for what we are trying to do to secure legislation that can help find those answers for all the people who are remembered on the quilts.
Julian Lewis
Con
New Forest East
Question
May I ask the Secretary of State to clarify whether his earlier remarks mean that even if it had not been for the guidance of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, the Government would have wanted anyway to have repealed the legislation of the legacy Act? Given that he said that he did not believe that there would be convictions at the end of the process, how does this help anyone and avoid just torturing people put through a trial?
Minister reply
If I may, I will correct what I think is the interpretation that the right hon. Member has put on what I had said. I made it clear a moment ago that had the Joint Committee on Human Rights reached a different conclusion about the appropriateness of the remedial order, the Government would of course have respected that. The point I was making, if one looks at the figures—[Interruption.] Well, there are currently nine live cases before the courts relating to the troubles; seven of them relate to paramilitaries, and six of those relate to the Provisional IRA.
Jim Allister
TUV
North Antrim
Question
In order to address the deficit of support among veterans for his Bill, should the Secretary of State consider an amendment to clause 3 to have the Veterans Commissioner for Northern Ireland serve on the legacy commission?
Minister reply
As I have indicated, I reject the suggestion that the Government are in any way engaging in lawfare against veterans, in the same way that I reject any suggestion that there are such things as politically motivated or vexatious prosecutions. There will no doubt be a number of amendments and suggestions made when we come to detailed consideration of the Bill, and we will consider them at that time.
Geoffrey Cox
Con
Torridge and Tavistock
Question
If the Supreme Court rules that the declaration of incompatibility is void, what would be the legal position on which the Secretary of State is proceeding with the order?
Minister reply
Once again, I do not accept that the Government are acting on an unlawful basis. Given the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s distinguished legal credentials and experience, I say to him that I note he encourages me to speculate on a potential outcome—[Interruption.] Well, he does. The Government have to deal with the position as we find it.
Sarah Pochin
Reform
Runcorn and Helsby
Question
How does the Secretary of State expect to recruit people to our armed forces when those who served gallantly in Northern Ireland face prosecution? What message does this send to young people considering joining?
Minister reply
I meet many young people in my constituency and on other duties who are keen to come to serve the nation in the armed forces. I am not aware of any figures that suggest there has been a decline in recruitment. If the hon. Member has seen them, perhaps she could draw them to my attention. Trying to deal with the past correctly, particularly given the threats we face in the modern world, should not affect the willingness of young people and others to come forward and serve the nation.
Andrew Murrison
Con
South West Wiltshire
Question
Why do Operation Banner veterans remain unconvinced about additional protections in his legislation? Can he reassure veterans that no former terrorists or members of proscribed organisations will serve on the legacy commission?
Minister reply
I have already made it clear to the House that as long as I am in this post I have no intention of appointing those who have engaged in paramilitary activity to any of the posts contained in the Bill. On the protections, we all have a responsibility to explain and point out that they are in the draft legislation in clauses 30, 31, 36, 91, 84, 54, 56, 69 and 8.
Alex Easton
Ind
North Down
Question
Has the Secretary of State sought any legal advice on whether to hold off the remedial order until the Supreme Court judgment? Will he also update us on making sure that the Irish Government produce all legal papers on their role, on the IRA and on the involvement of the Garda Síochána?
Minister reply
As the hon. Gentleman will be well aware, there is a long-standing tradition that the Government do not reveal the legal advice they receive. All Governments receive legal advice, but we do not share it, because that is part of the business of government.
John Cooper
Con
Dumfries and Galloway
Question
Will the Secretary confirm whether the remedial order will have to be voted on in the other place?
Minister reply
Yes, it will be voted on in both Houses in the new year.
Carla Lockhart
DUP
Upper Bann
Question
Despite what the Secretary of State continues to say in the House, the prosecution of elderly veterans has been vexatious. How will he ensure that the remedial order gives a clear distinction between the bomber who presents himself as a victim and the ordinary man, woman or child who was murdered or maimed by the actions of terrorists?
Minister reply
I have already made reference to the Irish Government’s announcement in respect of legislation to enable witnesses to give evidence to the Omagh bombing inquiry, which I welcome.
Bob Blackman
Con
Harrow East
Question
Notwithstanding that prosecutions have limited chances of success, will the Secretary of State look sympathetically at amendments to raise the bar very high for prosecutions of veterans?
Minister reply
I will look carefully at all amendments tabled during Committee and Report stages. The test for prosecutions remains the same as it has been for decades, dependent on evidence. The Bill sets a high bar with the necessity criterion for reinvestigation.
Jim Shannon
DUP
Strangford
Question
How will the Secretary of State respond to lack of protection for service personnel and the focus on them, given that 2,057 republican murders and 1,027 loyalist murders have not received justice?
Minister reply
We aim to uncover truth through legislation and have drawn lessons from Kenova, including the establishment of a victims and survivors advisory panel. The draft Bill respects the desire for answers for families seeking justice.
Question
On a point of order regarding the seriousness with which to approach Northern Irish troubles issues.
Minister reply
Not directly addressed by the Minister, but Madam Deputy Speaker advised maintaining solemnity and appropriateness in language.
Government Response
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question regarding the draft Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 (Remedial) Order 2025. This remedial order is designed to formally remove provisions in the act that were found incompatible with human rights obligations by the courts, specifically immunity from prosecution and the bar on troubles-related civil cases. The Government believe there are compelling reasons for proceeding with this order, including providing clarity, building trust among victims and survivors, and enabling the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery to continue its work effectively. Although appeals were abandoned in July 2024, the legal reality is that these declarations of incompatibility do not impact the current process, given they pertain to different aspects of the legislation.
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