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Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education (Transfer of Functions etc) Bill [Lords] 2025-02-25
25 February 2025
Lead MP
The Secretary of State for Education
Debate Type
Ministerial Statement
Tags
EconomyEmployment
Other Contributors: 47
At a Glance
The Secretary of State for Education raised concerns about institute for apprenticeships and technical education (transfer of functions etc) bill [lords] 2025-02-25 in the House of Commons. A government minister responded. Other MPs also contributed.
How the Debate Unfolded
MPs spoke in turn to share their views and ask questions. Here's what each person said:
Government Statement
We are a country with incredible talent, industry, and invention. Despite our strengths in research, manufacturing, professional services, and creative industries, there is a wide gap in skills within the workforce, impacting individuals, businesses, communities, and the nation as a whole. Half a million job vacancies remain unfilled due to skill mismatches, a critical issue since 2011 when data collection began. The country has fallen behind its neighbours regarding higher technical qualifications, with over 90% of employers valuing basic digital skills but more than 7 million adults lacking them. This skills gap hinders economic growth and limits individuals' opportunities to achieve their ambitions. Bridget Phillipson announced a commitment to reform the apprenticeship levy into a growth and skills levy, offering shorter-duration and foundation apprenticeships in targeted sectors. She also highlighted the importance of providing diverse pathways for young people, including technical training routes through apprenticeships while valuing university education when appropriate. The minister emphasised that Skills England will play a crucial role in addressing these issues, focusing on improving opportunities for small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) to offer apprenticeships.
Ashley Fox
Con
Bridgwater
Question
The Secretary of State agrees that employers cannot spend the money from the apprenticeship levy easily and that too much is retained by the Treasury. Will she undertake to speak to the Chancellor to make it easier for employers to spend this money on training?
Minister reply
I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the Chancellor is as committed as I am to ensuring we have the right skills within the economy, because without them we will not be able to deliver economic growth. We are committed to reforming the failing apprenticeship levy into a growth and skills levy with more flexibility for employers.
John Hayes
Con
South Holland and The Deepings
Question
While welcoming the commitment to skills, does the Secretary of State recognise that too often young people are advised towards academic careers rather than practical learning? This means there are many graduates in non-graduate jobs owing a lot of money with pretty useless degrees.
Minister reply
I was almost on point to agree with much of what the right hon. Gentleman said, but unfortunately he ruined it at the end by commenting negatively on university education and degrees. Where we share common cause is making sure all young people have a range of pathways available, including technical training routes through apprenticeships.
Chris Vince
Lab/Co-op
Harlow
Question
During National Apprenticeship Week, my right hon. Friend visited Harlow College and agrees that to achieve new homes targets and get people off the streets into those homes, we need to train apprentices now. Does she agree Skills England can be part of this future?
Minister reply
I agree with my hon. Friend; he champions opportunities for young people to take on new skills through apprenticeship routes in his constituency and here. Regarding construction, he is right about the fantastic opportunities out there.
Toby Perkins
Lab
Chesterfield
Question
Does my right hon. Friend agree that a huge amount of the construction industry is made up of small employers who have been shut out by the apprenticeship levy approach, leading to a 50% reduction in SMEs offering apprenticeships? How will she increase the number of SME apprenticeships?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend has raised challenges faced by small businesses and opportunities for creating more apprenticeship starts and training routes. One change during National Apprenticeship Week was to maths and English requirements for adult apprentices, welcomed by business but much more is needed to help smaller employers and contractors take on apprentices.
Gareth Snell
Lab/Co-op
Stoke-on-Trent Central
Question
In Stoke-on-Trent, 22% of young people are not in education or training. Can the Secretary of State set out how this Bill will help an organisation such as the Spark Group to tap into opportunities and spread their ability to help young people into well-paid jobs?
Minister reply
My hon. Friend names a fantastic business in his constituency contributing significantly. The changes we have made to English and maths will support employers to create 10,000 additional apprenticeships every single year.
Tom Hayes
Lab
Bournemouth East
Question
I represent a coastal community that has been neglected for the past 14 years. My constituency's Bournemouth and Poole college is about to open a green energy construction campus in April, teaching solar, heat pump, and rainwater capture skills. Will my right hon. Friend join me in congratulating the college on this initiative?
Minister reply
I am delighted to hear my hon. Friend’s experience from Bournemouth. Our colleges are critical for ensuring we have the necessary skills in our economy and driving forward our agenda on clean energy. The campus will enable job growth, training opportunities, and ensure stability and security in our energy supply.
Luke Taylor
LD
Sutton and Cheam
Question
I visited South Thames college where I saw labs teaching the installation of heat pumps and other renewable technologies. The main challenge is finding staff to teach these classes and take on apprentices. What support will the Government give colleges for recruiting experienced individuals?
Minister reply
The hon. Gentleman is right about the challenges in the further education sector after 14 years of failure under the Conservatives. We have announced an extra £300 million of revenue funding at the Budget, along with new capital investment and retention incentive payments up to £6,000 for early career FE teachers in key subject areas.
Perkins
Ind
Question
The Secretary of State is speaking powerfully about Skills England. While I share her commitment, some believed that putting Skills England on a statutory footing as an independent body might have been better. Why has she taken this approach?
Minister reply
We need to act urgently due to chronic skills shortages across the country; delays would hold back growth and opportunities. Skills England will operate independently within the Department for Education, with robust governance and accountability frameworks, a strong chair from business experience, and an independent board chaired by Phil Smith.
Gareth Snell
Con
Constituency not provided
Question
How will Skills England support foundational manufacturing industries such as ceramics in Stoke-on-Trent?
Minister reply
Skills England will provide more rapid changes to qualifications and training requirements to meet employer needs, including shorter courses and foundation apprenticeships for young people.
Perkins
Lab
Constituency not provided
Question
Does the shadow Secretary of State think that IfATE does not have many faults or should it carry on as is?
Minister reply
The Bill threatens to undo much of the progress made under successive Conservative Governments in building a world-class apprenticeships and technical education system. The most effective step would be to build on the success of IfATE, rather than dismantling it.
Helen Hayes
Lab
Dulwich and West Norwood
Question
How will the further education and skills sector break down barriers for young people?
Minister reply
Skills England will empower home-grown talent in all regions so that people have the skills they need for future jobs, addressing the postcode lottery issue by ensuring high-quality opportunities are available everywhere.
Ian Sollom
LD
St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire
Question
While acknowledging the importance of reforming skills delivery, the amendment seeks to decline a Second Reading due to concerns about Skills England's statutory independence and centralised decision-making. It also questions the abolition of the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education without ensuring a legal replacement.
Minister reply
The Government acknowledges the need for robust governance but believes that the current framework, while not yet statutory, will ensure effective delivery through its partnership-centric approach. Further clarity on aspects such as accountability and seniority will be addressed in later stages of the Bill.
John Hayes
Lab
Question
The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful case for the independence of Skills England. He will know that Government Departments resist independence like most people resist disease, but his point is important because to get the kind of lateral action he describes in respect of the nuclear industry or other industries, it will be necessary for the body created to have a reach that Government Departments do not tend to have.
Ian Sollom
Lab
Question
The implication for standards development is also concerning. Where we have had employer-led trailblazer groups setting standards, the Secretary of State can now bypass employers entirely. In limited circumstances and for minor changes, that will have the benefit of speeding up the review process, which has been frustrating for employers. There are, however, no safeguards to prevent ministerial control becoming the default approach.
Perkins
Con
Question
I see that the hon. Gentleman has received the briefing from the Association of Employment and Learning Providers. He appears to be reading it virtually word for word; I do not know whether he contributed anything to the speech, but it has been very interesting to hear what he has said.
Andrew Pakes
Lab
Peterborough
Question
The hon. Member and I share a county, and he will be aware that in a place such as mine, we have seen the decimation of level 2 and 3 apprenticeships. Does he not recognise that the biggest concern I hear from employers is that the current system is centralised and letting down working-class families in seats like mine? What they want is Skills England.
Ian Sollom
Lab
Question
I point out that I represent St Neots, which is not Cambridge, and many employers have spoken to me about their concerns about Skills England and the lack of clarity on its future.
Gareth Snell
Con
No extracted contribution text available for this contributor yet.
Luke Murphy
Lab
Basingstoke
Question
The Labour MP criticises the previous government’s performance on apprenticeship starts, noting a 16% drop between 2018-19 and 2023-24. He questions whether the current system can be considered unblemished.
Minister reply
Acknowledges the impact of the pandemic but maintains that replacing the existing structure with civil servants might be less effective.
Smethwick
Question
The Labour MP supports the bill's intent to streamline the system and address structural inconsistencies in skills training. He highlights Keltruck Limited’s success in Smethwick, which benefits from a high number of apprenticeships.
Minister reply
Emphasises the importance of building in accountability to ensure Parliament can hold Ministers accountable for the new framework.
Anna Gelderd
Lab
South East Cornwall
Question
Welcomed the Bill’s commitment to broadening educational opportunities, highlighting the importance of apprenticeships in rural communities like South East Cornwall. She praised local businesses such as Wildanet for their investment in training schemes and emphasised the need to support young people through education.
Minister reply
No specific answer provided.
John Hayes
Con
South Holland and The Deepings
Question
Discussed the purpose of learning, emphasising that apprenticeships embody the goal of delivering personal fulfilment and fulfilling a social purpose by providing for economic needs.
Minister reply
No specific answer provided.
Wolverhampton North East
Question
Does the right hon. Member acknowledge the important role that universities play in supporting technical advanced education? Does he also agree that, under the stewardship of the last Government, we saw a decimation of specialist careers guidance in schools?
Minister reply
Yes, I acknowledge the role of universities in supporting technical advanced education and agree that specialist careers guidance was affected by previous government policies.
Andrew Pakes
Lab
Peterborough
Question
Is he advocating that trade unions should be involved in the new system?
Minister reply
Trade unions can play a vital part in ensuring the outcomes that the Government seeks, and I would continue to defend Unionlearn as I did when Minister.
John Hayes
Con
South Holland and The Deepings
Question
As I say, I am not an unbridled advocate of the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education, which the Bill abolishes. I did not set it up during my stewardship. As I have already described, I would have preferred a different, guild-based model.
Luke Murphy
Con
Basingstoke
Question
Conservative Members are making quite the noise about IfATE’s independence, but I remind the House that this is a precedented move. The Conservative Government established the Standards and Testing Agency, which is currently the Executive agency and was formerly a non-departmental body.
Darren Paffey
Lab
Southampton Itchen
Question
I am pleased to see that, with this Bill, the Government are taking action to ensure we get the right framework in place to shape our apprenticeship system.
Minister reply
Which hoops is the hon. Gentleman looking forward to the removal of?
Leigh Ingham
Lab
Stafford
Question
The Bill underpins the Government’s aim for apprenticeships not to be just for 18-year-olds fresh out of college.
Tom Collins
Lab
Worcester
Question
The Bill is an important step towards transforming our education ecosystem to become more agile and responsive. Local colleges are ready to deliver technical and vocational skills needed for transformations in digital, clean energy, and public services. They welcome changes to reduce bureaucracy and want further reviews of apprenticeship standards and funding bands.
Andrew Pakes
Lab
Peterborough
Question
It is an honour to follow a passionate speech about apprenticeships but it would be nice to have more Opposition Members in the Chamber for this important debate. The debate has been stuck on the function of a body, rather than the purpose we are trying to achieve.
Josh Dean
Lab
Hertford and Stortford
Question
The Bill will allow us to harness the talents of our young people through ambitious skills reform, but apprenticeship starts crashed under the previous Government. The new growth and skills levy will enable employers to access a broader range of higher quality training offers.
Dan Aldridge
Lab
Weston-super-Mare
Question
The Bill is about delivering the step change in skills we need if we are to rebuild our communities and country. In towns like Weston-super-Mare, technical education and apprenticeships are fundamental to enterprise, prosperity, and economic independence for young people.
Toby Perkins
Lab
Chesterfield
Question
The current system has significant issues such as unspent apprenticeship levy funds, a decline in SME apprentice starts, and low completion rates. What specific measures are being taken to address these problems?
Minister reply
We acknowledge the challenges highlighted by the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) and are committed to addressing them through this bill. By abolishing IfATE and creating Skills England, we aim to streamline processes and ensure more effective use of funds. We will continue to work with employers to identify and implement solutions that enhance the apprenticeship system's effectiveness.
Lauren Edwards
Lab
Rochester and Strood
Question
I welcome the Bill, which folds IfATE into Skills England to enable that integrated approach to support our labour market and economy. Can the Minister set out how the Government will ensure that the voices of SMEs will be heard, so that we get an apprenticeship framework that works for all types of businesses?
Maya Ellis
Lab
Ribble Valley
Question
One of the best commitments in this Government’s manifesto was to link immigration and skills policy in an effort to tackle the UK’s reliance on international recruitment. What steps will be taken to ensure that the quality and relevance of qualifications is maintained under the new framework?
Steve Yemm
Lab
Mansfield
Question
It is vital that the benefits of growth and training are felt equally across our country. The Government’s plan for growth recognises this and plays to our strengths, making us the second most attractive country to invest in globally according to a recent PWC report.
Kirith Entwistle
Lab
Bolton North East
Question
Young people are being let down by a skills and training system that does not work for them. The Bill establishes Skills England, which will break barriers that have left entire regions behind.
Amanda Martin
Lab
Portsmouth North
Question
The establishment of Skills England is the first step towards improving and promoting vocational pathways by increasing the number of apprenticeships available, improving completion rates, increasing financial support, and enhancing course flexibility.
Derby North
Question
I am proud to be a Derby MP and to represent a city with incredible engineering, manufacturing and technological expertise and skills. We make things in Derby... Under the previous Government, a third of UK job vacancies were a result of skills shortages, and the uptake of level 4 and 5 technical training in England fell to historically low levels.
Antonia Bance
Lab
Tipton and Wednesbury
Question
My hon. Friend is eloquent in setting out the skills challenges of the Black Country. My constituency neighbours hers, and locally 40% of jobs need level 4 skills, but only 16% of people have those skills. That is the challenge we face locally. Does she agree that Skills England should be set up and based in an area of the country that desperately needs a skills upgrade, such as the Black Country?
Minister reply
I absolutely welcome that intervention and support it wholeheartedly. Communities such as ours have felt and seen the decline, and the Government are laser focused on reversing that to unlock talent and opportunities, and to give our residents a better chance to get their futures back.
Adam Thompson
Lab
Erewash
No extracted contribution text available for this contributor yet.
Alison Hume
Lab
Scarborough and Whitby
Question
I warmly welcome the Bill. It clearly demonstrates the Government’s ambitious commitment to training and apprenticeships. I will concentrate on the role that Skills England will play in aligning apprenticeship opportunities with the needs of local economies.
Amanda Hack
Lab
North West Leicestershire
No extracted contribution text available for this contributor yet.
Neil O’Brien
Con
Harborough, Oadby and Wigston
Question
Why is the Government reversing the direction on policy regarding apprenticeship length and independence from government?
Minister reply
The Minister did not provide a direct answer to this question in the provided text. However, it can be inferred that the Government aims to address current challenges by reforming existing structures and aligning them with contemporary business needs.
Luke Murphy
Con
Question
In 2011 the last Government set up the Standards and Testing Agency, whose predecessor was a non-departmental public body that became an Executive agency, like IfATE. Why was it okay then but not now?
Minister reply
The move from one arms-length body to another in 2011 is different from this reorganisation due to the nature and purpose of these entities. None the less, IfATE was better than either of those things, which is why we ended up there.
John Hayes
Con
Question
How will this new system be directed by the Secretary of State or by Skills England? Will it be set out in guidance?
Minister reply
Skills England will simplify the skills system now and in the future, combining new functions with improvements in existing ones. Users of the system can challenge where a standard or assessment plan is not working in practice and needs revising.
No extracted contribution text available for this contributor yet.
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